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-   -   IBOC, place to complain (https://www.radiobanter.com/shortwave/87736-iboc-place-complain.html)

Pete KE9OA February 3rd 06 05:25 AM

IBOC, place to complain
 
Ann Gallagher

Charles Miller

These are two people in the FCC that you can contact about the interference
that IBOC transmissions are causing. Will it do any good to complain? Who
know? I took the gamble, and I also e-mailed the local radio stations about
this issue.

Pete



HFguy February 3rd 06 07:35 AM

IBOC, place to complain
 
Pete KE9OA wrote:
Ann Gallagher

Charles Miller

These are two people in the FCC that you can contact about the interference
that IBOC transmissions are causing. Will it do any good to complain? Who
know? I took the gamble, and I also e-mailed the local radio stations about
this issue.

Pete


Are those two people open to hearing about BPL interference to
international shortwave broadcasting?

[email protected] February 3rd 06 01:06 PM

BPL and power-line noise (was IBOC, place to complain)
 

HFguy wrote:

Are those two people open to hearing about BPL interference to
international shortwave broadcasting?


Most interference to international shortwave broadcasting is reportable
and, in theory, enforceable.

Broadband Over Power Line, both access and in-premise BPL, can and does
cause interference to HF and low-VHF reception. There are several
types of BPL, and each has its own unique characteristics, but all
types of BPL have some characteristics that help identify it.

o The most important factor to diagnosing BPL is to determine that it
is in operation in your area. The FCC mandates that the BPL industry
maintain a database of BPL locations and contact information. See
http://www.bpldatabase.org. Don't do too many searches, though, as
each search after your first slows the site way down. If you have any
complaints about the BPL database, contact the FCC about them. ARRL
also maintains a BPL database page at
http://p1k.arrl.org/~ehare/bpl/ex2.html. It contains information from a
much broader range of sources, and has much added value such as
hyperlinks to interference reports, etc. Contact for
any comments or questions about the ARRL's BPL pages.

o BPL occupies a significant swath of spectrum. If you were hearing a
narrowband noise, perhaps across 30 kHz of a SW band, or noise spaced
every 30 kHz across a wide range, this is not BPL. It fully fills any
spectrum it occupies.

o BPL can consist of close-spaced, usually digitally modulated
carriers, typically every 1.1 kHz, or it can sound like broadband
noise. If noise you hear has a strong 120-Hz component to it, it is
still related to power lines or electrical devices, but it is not BPL.

o In its use of spectrum, the onset of BPL vs spectrum is rather
abrupt. For example, you could be tuning up the bands, and at 4 MHz,
the band is clear, but by 4.1 MHz, the noise has increased
dramatically, and stays that way over a few MHz (typically), then
disappears in the same way farther up the band. It's not uncommon for
BPL to occupy several blocks of spectrum over tens of MHz.

If your location and noise match the above, you will probably also see
BPL equipment on your power lines. Look for new boxes and new BPL
couplers on the lines near your house. The ex2.html site listed above
has links to pictures in a number of the entries, as does the ARRL BPL
resource page at
http://www.arrl.org/bpl.

If you do have BPL intereference, most of the procedures outlined in
http://p1k.arrl.org/~ehare/bpl/complaints.html also apply to filing
complaints about the reception of international shortwave broadcast.
Unfortunately, although administrations are required to write
regulations to protect the reception of broadcasts from other
countries, the reception of shortwave broadcasts within the US probably
doesn't enjoy such protection. Most SWLs probably listen to more than
just the US religious stations, so if you do have SW interference,
focus your complaint toward the international stations. The US
stations could be interested in receiving your reports, though, as they
may at some point want to speak out about international concerns about
BPL.

Your ability to listen to Amateur Radio stations should also be
protected, as is the reception of WWV, etc. Unfortunately, you
probably cannot claim harmful interference to the reception of utility
stations that are not intended for reception by the general public.

Your initial complaint about BPL should be sent to the operator of the
BPL system. In many cases, you won't know whether this is your electric
company, or a separate ISP, so the most certain way is to start with
your electric company. Send informational cc's to the FCC addressess
listed in the complaints.html URL.

In all cases of interference, it is generally important to identify it
correctly. Although power-line noise can also cause interference, and
it, too, should be reported to your electic utility company and FCC, it
should not be confused with BPL. Every little burst of noise that may
occur for a few seconds, or every single computer "birdie" is not
necessarily harmful interference as defined by the rules, but "legal
limit" broadband signals will be S9 or greater across tens of MHz,
typically over a large geographical area.

Although ARRL's cooperative program with the FCC is specifically
focused on Amateur Radio, the information on ARRL's web page about
power-line interference may also help the SWL better understand
power-line noise and know how to proceed with complaints. Those
complaints should be directed to the FCC Call Center in Gettysburg, PA.
See http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/rfi-elec.html.

Interference from other devices can also affect radiocommunications.
ARRL's general RFI pages at http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/rfigen.html
points to a wide range of free information about interference.
Inquiries about interference involving Amateur Radio can be directed to
. BPL-related questions can be sent to me at
.

Ed Hare,

ARRL Laboratory Manager
Tel: 860-594-0318


Doug Smith W9WI February 3rd 06 02:55 PM

IBOC, place to complain
 
Pete KE9OA wrote:
Ann Gallagher

Charles Miller

These are two people in the FCC that you can contact about the interference
that IBOC transmissions are causing. Will it do any good to complain? Who
know? I took the gamble, and I also e-mailed the local radio stations about
this issue.


IMHO IBOC was not a technical decision. The Commission's technical
staff answers to the Commissioners, none of whom have a technical
background. I think the technical staff has been *ordered* to implement
IBOC on both AM and FM stations, and is doing the best they can to
comprimise between the technical consequences of doing this, and the
employment consequences of not doing it.

In the LPFM proceeding they saw exactly what happens when the technical
truth gets in the way of the will of lobbyists.

I don't think any complaint against IBOC will be listened to unless it's
accompanied by large campaign contributions. The chances of KE9OA
outbidding WOR are pretty much zero.

That said, I think IBOC is going to fail of its own volition. On AM,
it'll never sell to the vast majority of stations unless it can be left
on all night. But if it *is* left on all night, the massive
interference will kill the AM service altogether.

On FM, I think it'll simply never sell. IBOC-FM will fade away, as the
digital transmitters suffer inevitable breakdowns & budget-conscious
managers decide not to spend money repairing transmitters nobody is
listening to.

On the receiver end, set prices will have to pretty much equal those of
existing analog sets if they're to compete with satellite. They have a
VERY long way to go to reach that point!
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

Ham stuff for sale:
http://www.w9wi.com/articles/4sale.htm


David February 3rd 06 03:02 PM

IBOC, place to complain
 
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 14:55:12 GMT, Doug Smith W9WI
wrote:

Pete KE9OA wrote:
Ann Gallagher

Charles Miller

These are two people in the FCC that you can contact about the interference
that IBOC transmissions are causing. Will it do any good to complain? Who
know? I took the gamble, and I also e-mailed the local radio stations about
this issue.


IMHO IBOC was not a technical decision. The Commission's technical
staff answers to the Commissioners, none of whom have a technical
background. I think the technical staff has been *ordered* to implement
IBOC on both AM and FM stations, and is doing the best they can to
comprimise between the technical consequences of doing this, and the
employment consequences of not doing it.

In the LPFM proceeding they saw exactly what happens when the technical
truth gets in the way of the will of lobbyists.

I don't think any complaint against IBOC will be listened to unless it's
accompanied by large campaign contributions. The chances of KE9OA
outbidding WOR are pretty much zero.

That said, I think IBOC is going to fail of its own volition. On AM,
it'll never sell to the vast majority of stations unless it can be left
on all night. But if it *is* left on all night, the massive
interference will kill the AM service altogether.

On FM, I think it'll simply never sell. IBOC-FM will fade away, as the
digital transmitters suffer inevitable breakdowns & budget-conscious
managers decide not to spend money repairing transmitters nobody is
listening to.

On the receiver end, set prices will have to pretty much equal those of
existing analog sets if they're to compete with satellite. They have a
VERY long way to go to reach that point!

Modern transmitters do not ''break down''. They occasionally will
lose an active device, easily remedied by card swapping and FedEx to
the manufacturer.


[email protected] February 3rd 06 04:44 PM

IBOC, place to complain
 
I dont know jack about "modern transmitters",,,,, but anything and
everything "modern" is subject to BREAK DOWN BIG TIME AT ANY TIME! Case
in Point,the bush REICHSTAG of September Eleventh,Our Lord Year of Two
Thousand and One.That's what I am Saying.
cuhulin


[email protected] February 3rd 06 04:50 PM

IBOC, place to complain
 
I Do Believe that U.S.fed govt (U.S.Ministry Of Propaganda,HITLER!!!
they do study fascist,communist,nazi dictatorial thingys,y'all know!)
does NOT like us listening to News via Shortwave Radio around the
World.As I speak right now,we are seeing steps toward that.
cuhulin


Doug Smith W9WI February 3rd 06 05:29 PM

IBOC, place to complain
 
David wrote:
Modern transmitters do not ''break down''. They occasionally will
lose an active device, easily remedied by card swapping and FedEx to
the manufacturer.


For which the engineer who does the card swapping will charge. As will
the manufacturer & FedEx, at least after the transmitter is out of
warranty.

A whole lot cheaper than it was in the days where a breakdown meant a
few hours with a soldering iron or a few thousand in tubes, but it's
still money. Money that won't get spent if no revenue is lost by not
spending it.

--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

Ham stuff for sale:
http://www.w9wi.com/articles/4sale.htm


David February 3rd 06 05:54 PM

IBOC, place to complain
 
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 17:29:56 GMT, Doug Smith W9WI
wrote:

David wrote:
Modern transmitters do not ''break down''. They occasionally will
lose an active device, easily remedied by card swapping and FedEx to
the manufacturer.


For which the engineer who does the card swapping will charge. As will
the manufacturer & FedEx, at least after the transmitter is out of
warranty.

A whole lot cheaper than it was in the days where a breakdown meant a
few hours with a soldering iron or a few thousand in tubes, but it's
still money. Money that won't get spent if no revenue is lost by not
spending it.


If tubes and a full-time tech were more cost effective they'd still be
around.


Pete KE9OA February 4th 06 05:43 AM

IBOC, place to complain
 
I agree on the point of myself having any appreciable effect. I did receive
an e-mail response from Mr. Miller of the FCC this morning. He wants me to
send him some spectrographs of the stations in question. I am going to see
if I can take one of the 8560 spectrum analyzers home for a day or two. This
way, I can use the marker function and show the delta between the carrier
and the adjacent channel sideband power. The VSA would be even better,
because it could measure ACCP (adjacent channel coupled power).
I did get a response from one of the managers from WTMJ 620 this afternoon.
Nothing from WBBM yet, but I won't hold my breath on this one.
I do believe that if many people expressed their concern there would be a
very small chance that it would have some effect. Unfortunately, money makes
the world go around and if the radio stations think IBOC can increase their
revenue they will go for it.
I don't think it will succeed.................at least I hope not.

Pete

"Doug Smith W9WI" wrote in message
...
Pete KE9OA wrote:
Ann Gallagher

Charles Miller

These are two people in the FCC that you can contact about the
interference that IBOC transmissions are causing. Will it do any good to
complain? Who know? I took the gamble, and I also e-mailed the local
radio stations about this issue.


IMHO IBOC was not a technical decision. The Commission's technical staff
answers to the Commissioners, none of whom have a technical background. I
think the technical staff has been *ordered* to implement IBOC on both AM
and FM stations, and is doing the best they can to comprimise between the
technical consequences of doing this, and the employment consequences of
not doing it.

In the LPFM proceeding they saw exactly what happens when the technical
truth gets in the way of the will of lobbyists.

I don't think any complaint against IBOC will be listened to unless it's
accompanied by large campaign contributions. The chances of KE9OA
outbidding WOR are pretty much zero.

That said, I think IBOC is going to fail of its own volition. On AM,
it'll never sell to the vast majority of stations unless it can be left on
all night. But if it *is* left on all night, the massive interference
will kill the AM service altogether.

On FM, I think it'll simply never sell. IBOC-FM will fade away, as the
digital transmitters suffer inevitable breakdowns & budget-conscious
managers decide not to spend money repairing transmitters nobody is
listening to.

On the receiver end, set prices will have to pretty much equal those of
existing analog sets if they're to compete with satellite. They have a
VERY long way to go to reach that point!
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

Ham stuff for sale:
http://www.w9wi.com/articles/4sale.htm





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