"Carter, K8VT" wrote:

dxAce wrote:


What you had was sunrise enhancement, not grey line. I've already done my
homework (in other words, I don't believe that, 'big gun' or not).

Well, you sure do like to like to eat dust. I gave you a clue and a
chance to do a little bit of research to prove your "ace-hood", but you
couldn't figure it out. Yet another failure for you.

The quote from the "big gun" you don't believe is John Devoldere, author
of "ON4UN's Low-Band DXing", a classic text that has gone through
numerous printings and two editions. He is regarded world-wide as THE
low band propagation expert.

He calls the mechanism described as gray-line, not enhancement. I have
no doubt that this is *exactly* what I experienced with my 160 meter
Hawaii qso's. Although I realize you have that pesky reading
comprehension problem, try going over his quote once more.

If you expect us to take the word of a blathering, self-appointed poseur
against the word of an internationally renowned propagation expert,
you're more delusional than we think.

Pardon me, but my money's on Mr. Devoldere, at least until you reach his
level of world acclaim for something other than being a poseur and
boggle boy extraordinaire.

You're incorrect. Grey line propagation means just what it says, propagation
ALONG the grey line. What you experienced was NOT grey line propagation since
Hawaii is not and was not on the grey line. Nor can it be from your QTH. Mr.
Devoldere can call it anything he likes, however that does not make it correct.

What you experienced was sunrise enhancement, plain and simple.

Sorry that you can't get a handle on that (nor the mileage issue!) but it's not
my problem!

You'd better go back to propagation school, boy.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

"Carter, K8VT" wrote:

Pardon me...

Sorry, can't do that as I'm not the Governor nor am I the President.

Wouldn't do it even if I was.

Perhaps you might take up trolling in an amateur radio group. Ask mommy if you
can. Ask nice.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

dxAce wrote:

You're incorrect. Grey line propagation means just what it says,
propagation ALONG the grey line.

Let me quote Mr. D once again:

Some authors have stated that gray line propagation always occurs
along the terminator. On the *low bands*, there has been only
occasional proof of such propagation. [my emphasis added]

Which virtually disputes what you said above.

He goes on to say:

Rather, propagation is through the dark zone, on a path that (in most
cases) is nearly perpendicular to the terminator.

Which is what I experienced--sunrise here, through the dark zone to
Hawaii, which is roughly perpendicular to Michigan.

Gray line propagation on the low bands is a *different affair* from
what is often called gray line propagation on the (higher) HF bands,
where the propagation path does follow the direction of the gray
line. [my emphasis added]

This may be where you are getting confused...

What you experienced was NOT grey line propagation since Hawaii is
not and was not on the grey line.

Read it again, slowly, (and fight that comprehension problem). On the
*low bands*, -it-doesn't-have-to-be -ON- the gray line.

Well, now let's have a little "Rocket Science 101"---do I believe a
blow-hard know-it-all (that doesn't) or do I believe the world's
foremost low band propagation expert. (Gee, I hate those hard decisions!)

P.S.

As you're such the expert and have had so much experience on 160 and
spent so much time on the band, please feel free to share *your* 160 DX
contacts with us...and don't forget to tell us the title of *your* book.

Oh?... What's that you say?... You can't? Well, sorry then, the smart
money is *still* on Mr. D.

(Damn, boy...you really *do* like that dust!)

"Telamon" wrote

At what time would both Hawaii and Michigan be on the grey line?

During the next pole shift!


A shift of the "magnetic" pole, which is happening constantly, would have
zero impact on earth's sunrise/sunset times on any given point of the earth.
The earth would have to physically shift its "axis of rotation" away from
the North star to create a "gray line" that runs through Hawaii and the
mainland. The magnetic pole would follow it.

On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 14:11:34 -0600, "SeeingEyeD0g"
wrote:

Congratulations!

Do I get the kewpie doll??


wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 22:29:48 -0500, dxAce
wrote:



SeeingEyeD0g wrote:

All this yammering and no one caught the obvious error:

Frequency: 1.8kHz to about 1.9kHz

Should read 1.8 Mhz to about 1.9 MHz or 1800 kHz to about 1900 kHz -
D'oh!

Oh it was caught, but I didn't want to confuse ol' Carter even more. He
has his
hands full trying to understand that a signal that doesn't follow the
grey line
shouldn't be called grey line propagation.

What he actually has is sunrise enhancement or what may be an even better
name
for it might be 'terminator enhancement'.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

As long as we're all catching errors ......... should not the title be
160 meter SSB contest??

"Carter, K8VT" wrote:

dxAce wrote:

You're incorrect. Grey line propagation means just what it says,
propagation ALONG the grey line.

Let me quote Mr. D once again:

Some authors have stated that gray line propagation always occurs
along the terminator. On the *low bands*, there has been only
occasional proof of such propagation. [my emphasis added]

I'd say he is incorrect with his 'only occasional proof' comment. But once
again, if it is not following the grey line then it is not grey line
propagation.

Which virtually disputes what you said above.

He goes on to say:

Rather, propagation is through the dark zone, on a path that (in most
cases) is nearly perpendicular to the terminator.

Which is what I experienced--sunrise here, through the dark zone to
Hawaii, which is roughly perpendicular to Michigan.

Of course, and yet again, NOT grey line.

Gray line propagation on the low bands is a *different affair* from
what is often called gray line propagation on the (higher) HF bands,
where the propagation path does follow the direction of the gray
line. [my emphasis added]

This may be where you are getting confused...

The confusion is all yours!

What you experienced was NOT grey line propagation since Hawaii is
not and was not on the grey line.

Read it again, slowly, (and fight that comprehension problem). On the
*low bands*, -it-doesn't-have-to-be -ON- the gray line.

Then it is NOT grey line propagation. Pretty simple. It's then a darkness path,
or a path enhanced by sunrise (or in other cases by sunset).

Well, now let's have a little "Rocket Science 101"---do I believe a
blow-hard know-it-all (that doesn't) or do I believe the world's
foremost low band propagation expert. (Gee, I hate those hard decisions!)

P.S.

As you're such the expert and have had so much experience on 160 and
spent so much time on the band, please feel free to share *your* 160 DX
contacts with us...and don't forget to tell us the title of *your* book.

Never stated that I had much experience on 160, though I have certainly made
contacts in that band. I'm experienced in low band 2 and 3 MHz SWBC monitoring.
If you wish to talk about 160 meter contacts I suggest as I have before that you
find a suitable amateur radio group!

Oh?... What's that you say?... You can't? Well, sorry then, the smart
money is *still* on Mr. D.

(Damn, boy...you really *do* like that dust!)

Once again, if the propagation does not occur ALONG the grey line then it is
NOT grey line propagation. To call it that as you have and as Mr. Devoldere
seems to indicate is simply not precise, correct, or factual.

Get a grip, and try to understand why it's known as grey LINE propagation and
not simply 'grey spot' or 'grey time' propagation.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

"Carter, K8VT" wrote:

As you're such the expert and have had so much experience on 160 and
spent so much time on the band, please feel free to share *your* 160 DX
contacts with us...and don't forget to tell us the title of *your* book.

Since this is a 'shortwave' oriented newsgroup and not an amateur one, perhaps
you'll share your SWBC listening/dx'ing experiences and loggings with us.

SWBC countries heard, SWBC countries QSL'd, etc.

The title of my book? It's called 'Tards Suck, and So Do Trolls'.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

In article ,
"SeeingEyeD0g" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote

At what time would both Hawaii and Michigan be on the grey line?

During the next pole shift!


A shift of the "magnetic" pole, which is happening constantly, would have
zero impact on earth's sunrise/sunset times on any given point of the earth.
The earth would have to physically shift its "axis of rotation" away from
the North star to create a "gray line" that runs through Hawaii and the
mainland. The magnetic pole would follow it.

I don't mean magnetic, I mean geographic where the earth flips over on
it's axis and I'm joking.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Telamon wrote:

I don't mean magnetic, I mean geographic where the earth flips over on
it's axis and I'm joking.


It's happened before. They can tell by the magnetic orientation of
particles in lake bottoms.. If I remember correctly, some lake in Africa
had evidence of a half dozen magnetic pole changes.

Either the core turns, or the shell turns around the core. No one knows
why. It may be precession gone rampant, a huge passing comet or some
other body or something entirely different.

Ancient texts mention the Sun rising from the wrong direction. There may
be truth in that.


Core change, versus crust change, is discussed he

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=36110



mike

In article Y9tMf.5444$Cp4.1640@edtnps90, m II wrote:

Telamon wrote:

I don't mean magnetic, I mean geographic where the earth flips over on
it's axis and I'm joking.


It's happened before. They can tell by the magnetic orientation of
particles in lake bottoms.. If I remember correctly, some lake in Africa
had evidence of a half dozen magnetic pole changes.

Either the core turns, or the shell turns around the core. No one knows
why. It may be precession gone rampant, a huge passing comet or some
other body or something entirely different.

Ancient texts mention the Sun rising from the wrong direction. There may
be truth in that.


Core change, versus crust change, is discussed he

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=36110

I am aware of the magnetic pole reversals.

The geographic pole reversal would cause other tremendous earth
environmental changes on a scale that I expect people and most life
would not survive it.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California