On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:07:54 GMT, "Verstaldin"
wrote:

I like insulated multistrand bell wire. You can pay fro fancier wire, but
sooner or later, after a few years, the wire will get rusty and corroded and
it will need to be replaced. Any hardware store or grange should have
suitable wire. I'm not sure how long you want it to be, but make sure you
have a static-lightening arrestor connected to it to protect your system
s.

All life all holiness come from you O Lord

Thanks. I need all the holinesses I can gets.

That's why I use the tinned stuff for contact antennas. For pole and
insulator antennas I have this stuff from Home Depot called chandelier
wire, whic is about 20 g twisted copper. It turns green but doesn't
stretch or anything. That's what my 50 foot wire is. Between 2 egg
insulators driving a Palomar MLB.

I've also had excellent results with solid steel wire, which is $4 for
120 feet.

David wrote:

I've also had excellent results with solid steel wire, which is $4 for
120 feet.


I used plastic coated clothesline wire for years. It's stranded steel
and is super strong. The ends were over a hundred feet apart and it was
stretched pretty tight. Never any sagging due to ice. A split bolt on
each end held it around the insulators.

The cast from Alfred Hitchcock's 'The Birds' never showed, so I can't
comment on hundreds of birds perching on it.



mike

In article ,
James Douglas wrote:

As my existing fence is falling down and I have saved the 3K to replace
it it's also time for a new antenna. What type of wire would be best?
My existing antenna is around the fence about 8' in the area and the
area is shaped like [ with the long side running North/South.

Considering
1. Price
2. Conductor performance.
3. Insulation longevity

1. Discount warehouse home improvement hardware stores.

2. If you were to hang it up on insulators where the wire would have to
support its own weight I would give a different answer but you indicate
that the new fence will support it so best and cheapest would be solid
copper and large diameter. The RF current at medium wave and short wave
has a tendency to travel on the exterior of the wire so the resistance
to RF current flow is much higher than it is for DC, which tends to use
more of the wires cross-sectional area. This Rf effect is know as the
skin effect so since the RF current only travels in the "skin" of the
wire a larger diameter for a long stretch provides a helpful improvement
in performance.

How big to go in diameter? Well bigger means larger circumference.
According to this web page calculator 15 MHz has a rounded skin depth of
0.000662 inch. That's a pretty thin layer so a step in wire size must
mean a significant drop in RF resistance per foot. I would go with the
largest wire size available for a reasonable price. Something in the #6,
8 or 10 size would be a good bet.

3. Must withstand the sun and weather effects. Teflon coated is the same
color of the fence would be a good choice.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:31:41 GMT, Telamon
wrote:

In article ,
James Douglas wrote:

As my existing fence is falling down and I have saved the 3K to replace
it it's also time for a new antenna. What type of wire would be best?
My existing antenna is around the fence about 8' in the area and the
area is shaped like [ with the long side running North/South.

Considering
1. Price
2. Conductor performance.
3. Insulation longevity

best and cheapest would be solid
copper and large diameter. The RF current at medium wave and short wave
has a tendency to travel on the exterior of the wire so the resistance
to RF current flow is much higher than it is for DC, which tends to use
more of the wires cross-sectional area. This Rf effect is know as the
skin effect so since the RF current only travels in the "skin" of the
wire a larger diameter for a long stretch provides a helpful improvement
in performance.

How big to go in diameter? Well bigger means larger circumference.
According to this web page calculator 15 MHz has a rounded skin depth of
0.000662 inch. That's a pretty thin layer so a step in wire size must
mean a significant drop in RF resistance per foot. I would go with the
largest wire size available for a reasonable price. Something in the #6,
8 or 10 size would be a good bet.

???

If ''skin effect'' is a consideration you want stranded, not solid.

But for receiving it's not a factor.

James Douglas wrote:
As my existing fence is falling down and I have saved the 3K to replace
it it's also time for a new antenna. What type of wire would be best?
My existing antenna is around the fence about 8' in the area and the
area is shaped like [ with the long side running North/South.


I ended up getting 500' of #14 stranded copper, with 15mils insulation
for $28.00, they wanted $32.00 for 200' taken from the large spool? WTF?

Now I may extend the antenna to include a piece that runs across the top
of the roof, which on my house is about 30' up in the air! Would that be
good or bad, again I have 150' around the fence that runs in the shape
of a C, what if I added a "extender" across the roof vent and ran a wire
down the to main antenna? I have heard that "higher is better"

I am also thinking about adding a two foot extension to the fence posts
so that I can get the antenna up a little higher but am wondering what
the neighbors are going to think?

I do have a balun from Erickson Enginering, which seems to help so far
although conditions have not been favorable here lately, and also have
8' copper rod pounded into the ground.

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:34:13 -0600, James Douglas
wrote:


Now I may extend the antenna to include a piece that runs across the top
of the roof, which on my house is about 30' up in the air! Would that be
good or bad, again I have 150' around the fence that runs in the shape
of a C, what if I added a "extender" across the roof vent and ran a wire
down the to main antenna? I have heard that "higher is better"

I am also thinking about adding a two foot extension to the fence posts
so that I can get the antenna up a little higher but am wondering what
the neighbors are going to think?

I do have a balun from Erickson Enginering, which seems to help so far
although conditions have not been favorable here lately, and also have
8' copper rod pounded into the ground.

Doubling back in the same plane is probably counterproductive. I'd
get as big an ''L'' shaped configuration as I could. I'd also keep
the antenna away from the house as it probably has lots of noise
sources. Use the ''BalUn'' to match the wire to some co-ax to get the
signal into your house from a safe distance away.
http://www.hard-core-dx.com/nordicdx...ed/balun3.html

The higher the better. (That's for Steve!)

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:34:13 -0600, James Douglas
wrote:

James Douglas wrote:
As my existing fence is falling down and I have saved the 3K to replace
it it's also time for a new antenna. What type of wire would be best?
My existing antenna is around the fence about 8' in the area and the
area is shaped like [ with the long side running North/South.


I ended up getting 500' of #14 stranded copper, with 15mils insulation
for $28.00, they wanted $32.00 for 200' taken from the large spool? WTF?

Now I may extend the antenna to include a piece that runs across the top
of the roof, which on my house is about 30' up in the air! Would that be
good or bad, again I have 150' around the fence that runs in the shape
of a C, what if I added a "extender" across the roof vent and ran a wire
down the to main antenna? I have heard that "higher is better"

You might run the extension, and clip it to your regular fence antenna
with an alligator clip -- have someone attach and unattach it out in
the yard while you listen to signals. That way, you can see if it
improves reception or not.

I am also thinking about adding a two foot extension to the fence posts
so that I can get the antenna up a little higher but am wondering what
the neighbors are going to think?

Just tell them you wanted a higher fence :-)

Bob
k5qwg



I do have a balun from Erickson Enginering, which seems to help so far
although conditions have not been favorable here lately, and also have
8' copper rod pounded into the ground.

In article ,
James Douglas wrote:

James Douglas wrote:
As my existing fence is falling down and I have saved the 3K to replace
it it's also time for a new antenna. What type of wire would be best?
My existing antenna is around the fence about 8' in the area and the
area is shaped like [ with the long side running North/South.


I ended up getting 500' of #14 stranded copper, with 15mils insulation
for $28.00, they wanted $32.00 for 200' taken from the large spool? WTF?

Now I may extend the antenna to include a piece that runs across the top
of the roof, which on my house is about 30' up in the air! Would that be
good or bad, again I have 150' around the fence that runs in the shape
of a C, what if I added a "extender" across the roof vent and ran a wire
down the to main antenna? I have heard that "higher is better"

Yes higher is better but you will want to keep the antenna away from
your electrically noisy house so I advise against this.

I am also thinking about adding a two foot extension to the fence posts
so that I can get the antenna up a little higher but am wondering what
the neighbors are going to think?

This will not be worth the trouble. You would need to move it more like
10 feet to make a difference.

I do have a balun from Erickson Enginering, which seems to help so far
although conditions have not been favorable here lately, and also have
8' copper rod pounded into the ground.

The UNUN is good for random/long wire use.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

JD,

Something Different - - -
On-the-Fence Loop Antenna for the Shortwave Listener (SWL)

You should first install an 8-Ft Ground Rod at the
Foot (Base) of the new Fence.
Note - This will be the Starting and Ending Point for
your Wire Antenna Element
+ The Mounting Place for your Matching Transformer
{ A Balun = Loop-to-Coax }
+ The Connecting Point for your Coax Cable.

Start by running the Wire Antenna Element out along
the Bottom of the Fence to your Far-Point.

Then a short Wire Antenna Element Leg-Up to the
Top of the Fence.

Next run the Wire Antenna Element back along
the Top of the Fence to your Starting-Point.

Finally a a short Wire Antenna Element Down-Leg
to the Bottom of the Fence.

Mount your Matching Transformer to the Ground Rod

Connect your Coax Cable to the Matching Transformer.

Connect your Two Wire Antenna Element Ends
to the Matching Transformer.

You now have an On-the-Fence Loop Antenna
[ Bent-Around-the-Fence ]

FWIW - Two On-the-Fence Loop Antennas
One Rigged on the Fence along one Side of the Yard
One Rigged on the Fence along the Back of the Yard
Set at 90 Degress and being about 8-ft apart at their
Starting Points from a common Corner can give you
more Receiving Antenna Options.
Note - Separate Ground Rods, Baluns and Coax Cable
Feed-in-Lines are recommended if you choose to use
two On-the-Fence Loop Antennas.

As to the Question of Antenna Wire Size :
# 14 AWG Insulated Copper Wire with 19-Strands
and using PVC Insulation is cost effective and durable.
HomeDepot type - THWN or THHN in 500 Foot Spools

TIP - One of the most important details of an On-the-Fence
Antenna is the Stand-Offs used to keep the Wire "OFF"
the Fence and in the Air. TV "Stand-Offs" with Plastic
Insulator Head and 3.5" Wood Screw base hardware.
RadioShack Catalog #15-853 (4 Pack)
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...tId=2104003&cp

Other On-the-Fence Shortwave Listener (SWL) Antenna ideas
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...nce+rhf&qt_g=1


hope this helps - iane ~ RHF

In article .com,
"RHF" wrote:

JD,

Something Different - - -
On-the-Fence Loop Antenna for the Shortwave Listener (SWL)

You should first install an 8-Ft Ground Rod at the
Foot (Base) of the new Fence.
Note - This will be the Starting and Ending Point for
your Wire Antenna Element
+ The Mounting Place for your Matching Transformer
{ A Balun = Loop-to-Coax }
+ The Connecting Point for your Coax Cable.

Start by running the Wire Antenna Element out along
the Bottom of the Fence to your Far-Point.

Then a short Wire Antenna Element Leg-Up to the
Top of the Fence.

Next run the Wire Antenna Element back along
the Top of the Fence to your Starting-Point.

Finally a a short Wire Antenna Element Down-Leg
to the Bottom of the Fence.

Mount your Matching Transformer to the Ground Rod

Connect your Coax Cable to the Matching Transformer.

Connect your Two Wire Antenna Element Ends
to the Matching Transformer.

You now have an On-the-Fence Loop Antenna
[ Bent-Around-the-Fence ]

FWIW - Two On-the-Fence Loop Antennas
One Rigged on the Fence along one Side of the Yard
One Rigged on the Fence along the Back of the Yard
Set at 90 Degress and being about 8-ft apart at their
Starting Points from a common Corner can give you
more Receiving Antenna Options.
Note - Separate Ground Rods, Baluns and Coax Cable
Feed-in-Lines are recommended if you choose to use
two On-the-Fence Loop Antennas.

As to the Question of Antenna Wire Size :
# 14 AWG Insulated Copper Wire with 19-Strands
and using PVC Insulation is cost effective and durable.
HomeDepot type - THWN or THHN in 500 Foot Spools

TIP - One of the most important details of an On-the-Fence
Antenna is the Stand-Offs used to keep the Wire "OFF"
the Fence and in the Air. TV "Stand-Offs" with Plastic
Insulator Head and 3.5" Wood Screw base hardware.
RadioShack Catalog #15-853 (4 Pack)
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...tId=2104003&cp

Other On-the-Fence Shortwave Listener (SWL) Antenna ideas
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...rec.radio.shor
twave&q=on-the-fence+rhf&qt_g=1


You describe a close to the ground vertical loop antenna. I expect that
at most you would need a 2:1 BALUN but the right answer might be 1:1
with the antenna that close to the ground. The loop is balanced and the
coax is not so a BALUN is used here.

The loop is a complete antenna unlike the single wire antenna, which
still needs a counter poise to complete an RF circuit. The counterpoise
or RF return for the signal wire is the ground stake. Generally an
optimal situation would be a voltage type transformer as a UNUN so the
single wire and ground would be the primary and the coax on the
secondary. The single wire is not balanced and neither is the coax so
UNUN is used.

The loop as a complete antenna does not need the ground as a
counterpoise. Useful construction tip would be to bury the coax or if
that is not convenient then use clamp on ferrite for a RF choke to stop
noise from the radio end of the coax on the outer shield from getting to
the loop antenna then into the radio input. The clamp on ferrite would
be a current type 1:1 BALUN.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California