A massive arctic cold wave is heading for the midwest and east. It has
already hit the prairies with record cold and blizzard conditions with
three dead so far. A front of this strength can affect radio reception
so it might be worthwhile to tune through the bands for the next four
days.
Household tip: For some unknown reason, hot water pipes freeze
before cold water pipes.
A trickle of water will prevent pipes from freezing.
Thed Global warming debate will resume in July.

ve3... wrote:
A massive arctic cold wave is heading for the midwest and east. It has
already hit the prairies with record cold and blizzard conditions with
three dead so far. A front of this strength can affect radio reception
so it might be worthwhile to tune through the bands for the next four
days.
Household tip: For some unknown reason, hot water pipes freeze
before cold water pipes.
A trickle of water will prevent pipes from freezing.
Thed Global warming debate will resume in July.

This arctic air has hit the left coast as well.

The deal with the hot water pipe freezing first is due to the lack of
dissolved gasses in the water. That is, the heating process takes the
dissolved gasses out of the water, which in turn makes it easier to
freeze.

Since a hot water system is under the same pressure as the cold and provided
that the hot water heater doesn't vent I'l like to know where the dissolved
gases in the hot water go?
tnx
Hank
wrote in message
ps.com...

ve3... wrote:
A massive arctic cold wave is heading for the midwest and east. It has
already hit the prairies with record cold and blizzard conditions with
three dead so far. A front of this strength can affect radio reception
so it might be worthwhile to tune through the bands for the next four
days.
Household tip: For some unknown reason, hot water pipes freeze
before cold water pipes.
A trickle of water will prevent pipes from freezing.
Thed Global warming debate will resume in July.

This arctic air has hit the left coast as well.

The deal with the hot water pipe freezing first is due to the lack of
dissolved gasses in the water. That is, the heating process takes the
dissolved gasses out of the water, which in turn makes it easier to
freeze.

"Henry Kolesnik" wrote in message
et...
Since a hot water system is under the same pressure as the cold and
provided that the hot water heater doesn't vent I'l like to know where the
dissolved gases in the hot water go?
tnx
Hank
http://www.break.com/index/boiling_w...5_degrees.html

wrote:
ve3... wrote:

Household tip: For some unknown reason, hot water pipes freeze
before cold water pipes.
A trickle of water will prevent pipes from freezing.
Thed Global warming debate will resume in July.

This arctic air has hit the left coast as well.

The deal with the hot water pipe freezing first is due to the lack of
dissolved gasses in the water. That is, the heating process takes the
dissolved gasses out of the water, which in turn makes it easier to
freeze.
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""""""""""""""
Alas, It ain't so simple. The finest scientific minds of our time have
been unable to come up with a theory that can be proved by experiment.
Current theories include:
- evaporatve cooling
-convection
-dissolved gases
-surrounding environment

The finest scientific minds of our time fool around with experiments
for a while, find that they cannot isolate the variables, and go back
to their lucrative defense dept contracts where things go boom and life
is much simpler.
Aristotle noticed the freezing effect around 350bc but not much was
known about scientific method then and his deduction worked for him.
The modern name for the phenomena is "the Mpemba effect" after an
African student who found that he could freeze hot milk faster than
cold milk. ( to make ice cream)

For those who have way too much time on their hands Google
Why do hot water pipes freeze before cold water pipes?
You will get 1,100,000 hits.

For those with limited time an instructive article from Physics Web
"Does Hot Water Freeze First?"
can be found at:
http://physicsweb.org/articles/world/19/4/4

A scholarly article," Hot water Can Freeze Faster Than Cold?!?", can be
found at:::
http://arxiv.org/ps_cache/physics/pdf/0512/0512262.pdf

This would be a great subject for a science project or even a Phd
thesis.

ve3... wrote:
wrote:\\\

The deal with the hot water pipe freezing first is due to the lack of
dissolved gasses in the water. That is, the heating process takes the
dissolved gasses out of the water, which in turn makes it easier to
freeze.
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""""""""""""""
Alas, It ain't so simple. The finest scientific minds of our time have
been unable to come up with a theory that can be proved by experiment.
Current theories include:
- evaporatve cooling
-convection
-dissolved gases
-surrounding environment

snips

The key to all of these is that there is something about both fluids,
apart from temperature, that is not equal.

If you have two identical, equal water fluids whose only difference is
temperature, I would bet good money that the cold one will freeze first
- it simply has to lose a lot less energy to get to the phase change.

I think the best experiment would be not to avoid the presence of
nucleation sites, but to make sure that each vessel has a roughly equal
load of them, guaranteeing that freezing would occur as soon as
possible for each one (just like in nature, where nucleation sites are
abundant).

Bruce Jensen

This is a long and perhpas delerious shot but there may something called
thermal momentum a far reach but here goes. The hot water may be cooling at
a faster rate and forgets to wait on the cold water to catch up.
"bpnjensen" wrote in message
ups.com...
ve3... wrote:
wrote:\\\

The deal with the hot water pipe freezing first is due to the lack of
dissolved gasses in the water. That is, the heating process takes the
dissolved gasses out of the water, which in turn makes it easier to
freeze.
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""""""""""""""
Alas, It ain't so simple. The finest scientific minds of our time have
been unable to come up with a theory that can be proved by experiment.
Current theories include:
- evaporatve cooling
-convection
-dissolved gases
-surrounding environment

snips

The key to all of these is that there is something about both fluids,
apart from temperature, that is not equal.

If you have two identical, equal water fluids whose only difference is
temperature, I would bet good money that the cold one will freeze first
- it simply has to lose a lot less energy to get to the phase change.

I think the best experiment would be not to avoid the presence of
nucleation sites, but to make sure that each vessel has a roughly equal
load of them, guaranteeing that freezing would occur as soon as
possible for each one (just like in nature, where nucleation sites are
abundant).

Bruce Jensen

Henry Kolesnik wrote:
This is a long and perhpas delerious shot but there may something called
thermal momentum a far reach but here goes. The hot water may be cooling at
a faster rate and forgets to wait on the cold water to catch up.
"bpnjensen" wrote in message
ups.com...
ve3... wrote:
wrote:\\\

The deal with the hot water pipe freezing first is due to the lack of
dissolved gasses in the water. That is, the heating process takes the
dissolved gasses out of the water, which in turn makes it easier to
freeze.
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""""""""""""""
Alas, It ain't so simple. The finest scientific minds of our time have
been unable to come up with a theory that can be proved by experiment.
Current theories include:
- evaporatve cooling
-convection
-dissolved gases
-surrounding environment

snips

The key to all of these is that there is something about both fluids,
apart from temperature, that is not equal.

If you have two identical, equal water fluids whose only difference is
temperature, I would bet good money that the cold one will freeze first
- it simply has to lose a lot less energy to get to the phase change.

I think the best experiment would be not to avoid the presence of
nucleation sites, but to make sure that each vessel has a roughly equal
load of them, guaranteeing that freezing would occur as soon as
possible for each one (just like in nature, where nucleation sites are
abundant).

Bruce Jensen
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""""""""""""""""""
from Yahoo:
"...for such a seemingly simple substance, water is surprisingly
complex, and its behaviour is poorly understood. The Mpemba effect is
just one of 38 anamolies of H2O."

Experiments to examine any theory have to contend with an enormous
number of variables.
A paper from London South Bank University examines a few anamolies. Do
not miss "icosahedral water clusters" at the bottom of the page.
http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/explan.html

Henry Kolesnik wrote:
This is a long and perhpas delerious shot but there may something called
thermal momentum a far reach but here goes. The hot water may be cooling at
a faster rate and forgets to wait on the cold water to catch up.

I've thought of this too, and it is very tempting - but taken by itself
it violates the law and concept of "flux is proportional to the
gradient," and so I have to ween myself off the impulse.

Bruce Jensen

= = = On Jan 12, 1:13 pm, "Henry Kolesnik"
= = = wrote:
- This is a long and perhpas delerious shot but
- there may something called thermal momentum
- a far reach but here goes. The hot water may be
- cooling at a faster rate and forgets to wait on the
- cold water to catch up.

Mummm Cold Water and Ketch-Up
Smells like Iced Tomato Soup to me ~ RHF
http://www.recipezaar.com/44648
http://recipes.stsams.org/recipes/icedtomatosoup.html
http://www.dhyansanjivani.org/Iced_T...Soup_Spain.asp
About "Ketch-Up = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketchup