I am going to be providing shore monitoring for a kayak trip and will be
using a VHF radio from my pickup. I am thinking of installing a unit
rather than using a handheld. I took a look at what there is available
and it seems like the prices start at just over $100 for the unit itself
running up to $500 for a fancy unit that is mounted somewhere hidden and
all the controls in a hand held mic.

Other than the obvious features like the remote mic unit, what should I
look for in getting a quality unit that will work the best without
breaking the bank. I don't want to pay $500, but I will pay $200 or
more if there is a useful difference with the ~$100 units.

I doubt I'll be mounting this in a boat although that is a possibility
someday, I do have a ski boat. But more likely is that I'll mount it at
my house on a lake to provide some amount of emergency monitoring. So I
expect to mount it in the pickup so it can be easily removed and brought
into the house. I guess that means a second antenna too.

Words of advice?

--

Rick

On 9/1/2013 6:38 PM, rickman wrote:
I am going to be providing shore monitoring for a kayak trip and will be
using a VHF radio from my pickup. I am thinking of installing a unit
rather than using a handheld. I took a look at what there is available
and it seems like the prices start at just over $100 for the unit itself
running up to $500 for a fancy unit that is mounted somewhere hidden and
all the controls in a hand held mic.

Other than the obvious features like the remote mic unit, what should I
look for in getting a quality unit that will work the best without
breaking the bank. I don't want to pay $500, but I will pay $200 or
more if there is a useful difference with the ~$100 units.

I doubt I'll be mounting this in a boat although that is a possibility
someday, I do have a ski boat. But more likely is that I'll mount it at
my house on a lake to provide some amount of emergency monitoring. So I
expect to mount it in the pickup so it can be easily removed and brought
into the house. I guess that means a second antenna too.

Words of advice?


The first question would be - what country are you in?

The next question woulds be - what licenses do you hold? (Very little
is available without a license). I am assuming since you are asking
these questions you don't hold an amateur radio license.

The third question would be - what radios/bands are legal for that license?

Without even knowing what country you are in, the rest of the questions
are meaningless.


--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 9/1/2013 6:38 PM, rickman wrote:
I am going to be providing shore monitoring for a kayak trip and will be
using a VHF radio from my pickup. I am thinking of installing a unit
rather than using a handheld. I took a look at what there is available
and it seems like the prices start at just over $100 for the unit itself
running up to $500 for a fancy unit that is mounted somewhere hidden and
all the controls in a hand held mic.

Other than the obvious features like the remote mic unit, what should I
look for in getting a quality unit that will work the best without
breaking the bank. I don't want to pay $500, but I will pay $200 or
more if there is a useful difference with the ~$100 units.

I doubt I'll be mounting this in a boat although that is a possibility
someday, I do have a ski boat. But more likely is that I'll mount it at
my house on a lake to provide some amount of emergency monitoring. So I
expect to mount it in the pickup so it can be easily removed and brought
into the house. I guess that means a second antenna too.

Words of advice?


The first question would be - what country are you in?

From the wording of the post, most likely the US. The use of $100 and
$500 is a big clue, though he could be in Canada, Autralia, New
New Zealand, or Trinidad. I would highly doubt it is any of the Asian
countries that have the dollar as the national currency.

The next question woulds be - what licenses do you hold? (Very little
is available without a license). I am assuming since you are asking
these questions you don't hold an amateur radio license.

If it is the US, no licence is required for VHF marine radio for any
vessel that is NOT required to carry radio equipment and traveling in
US waters.

If it is Canada, essentially the same applies.

The third question would be - what radios/bands are legal for that license?

VHF marine radios are legal for the VHF marine radio band without regard
for country.

Without even knowing what country you are in, the rest of the questions
are meaningless.

Anyway...

Like everything else these days, the Internet is full of reviews of VHF
marine radios.

Google is your friend.



--
Jim Pennino

On 9/1/2013 9:22 PM, wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 9/1/2013 6:38 PM, rickman wrote:
I am going to be providing shore monitoring for a kayak trip and will be
using a VHF radio from my pickup. I am thinking of installing a unit
rather than using a handheld. I took a look at what there is available
and it seems like the prices start at just over $100 for the unit itself
running up to $500 for a fancy unit that is mounted somewhere hidden and
all the controls in a hand held mic.

Other than the obvious features like the remote mic unit, what should I
look for in getting a quality unit that will work the best without
breaking the bank. I don't want to pay $500, but I will pay $200 or
more if there is a useful difference with the ~$100 units.

I doubt I'll be mounting this in a boat although that is a possibility
someday, I do have a ski boat. But more likely is that I'll mount it at
my house on a lake to provide some amount of emergency monitoring. So I
expect to mount it in the pickup so it can be easily removed and brought
into the house. I guess that means a second antenna too.

Words of advice?


The first question would be - what country are you in?

From the wording of the post, most likely the US. The use of $100 and
$500 is a big clue, though he could be in Canada, Autralia, New
New Zealand, or Trinidad. I would highly doubt it is any of the Asian
countries that have the dollar as the national currency.


Yes, but those make a difference. And BTW, last time I was in Hong
Kong, they also used $. It has been close to 20 years, though.

And I wouldn't want to get the op in trouble by providing information
incorrect to the country he is in.

The next question woulds be - what licenses do you hold? (Very little
is available without a license). I am assuming since you are asking
these questions you don't hold an amateur radio license.

If it is the US, no licence is required for VHF marine radio for any
vessel that is NOT required to carry radio equipment and traveling in
US waters.


Are you sure about that? I do remember Dad had to get a radio license
for his boat, even though he was operating in U.S. waters off the Gulf
coast of Florida. That was a few years ago, though. And the license
was free.

However, he also was talking about SHORE monitoring - which definitely
requires a license, even for marine band.

If it is Canada, essentially the same applies.

The third question would be - what radios/bands are legal for that license?

VHF marine radios are legal for the VHF marine radio band without regard
for country.


Not entirely true. Depending on the country. Some still require
licenses, for various reasons.

Without even knowing what country you are in, the rest of the questions
are meaningless.

Anyway...

Like everything else these days, the Internet is full of reviews of VHF
marine radios.

Google is your friend.




And many of those are illegal to operate in some countries, even though
they aren't marked as such. Since he is asking here, I would expect he
wants to ensure he is legal.


--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.

==================

Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 9/1/2013 9:22 PM, wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 9/1/2013 6:38 PM, rickman wrote:
I am going to be providing shore monitoring for a kayak trip and will be
using a VHF radio from my pickup. I am thinking of installing a unit
rather than using a handheld. I took a look at what there is available
and it seems like the prices start at just over $100 for the unit itself
running up to $500 for a fancy unit that is mounted somewhere hidden and
all the controls in a hand held mic.

Other than the obvious features like the remote mic unit, what should I
look for in getting a quality unit that will work the best without
breaking the bank. I don't want to pay $500, but I will pay $200 or
more if there is a useful difference with the ~$100 units.

I doubt I'll be mounting this in a boat although that is a possibility
someday, I do have a ski boat. But more likely is that I'll mount it at
my house on a lake to provide some amount of emergency monitoring. So I
expect to mount it in the pickup so it can be easily removed and brought
into the house. I guess that means a second antenna too.

Words of advice?


The first question would be - what country are you in?

From the wording of the post, most likely the US. The use of $100 and
$500 is a big clue, though he could be in Canada, Autralia, New
New Zealand, or Trinidad. I would highly doubt it is any of the Asian
countries that have the dollar as the national currency.


Yes, but those make a difference. And BTW, last time I was in Hong
Kong, they also used $. It has been close to 20 years, though.

$100 Hong Kong is $12.89 US; I doubt you will find many VHF marine
radios $12.89 US.


And I wouldn't want to get the op in trouble by providing information
incorrect to the country he is in.

The next question woulds be - what licenses do you hold? (Very little
is available without a license). I am assuming since you are asking
these questions you don't hold an amateur radio license.

If it is the US, no licence is required for VHF marine radio for any
vessel that is NOT required to carry radio equipment and traveling in
US waters.


Are you sure about that? I do remember Dad had to get a radio license
for his boat, even though he was operating in U.S. waters off the Gulf
coast of Florida. That was a few years ago, though. And the license
was free.

And at one time CB and private aircraft had to have a license; none do
anymore. Air and marine radars also used to require a license; not
anymore.

However, he also was talking about SHORE monitoring - which definitely
requires a license, even for marine band.

Nope, there is a VHF marine channel specifically for chit chat from ship
to shore.

If it is Canada, essentially the same applies.

The third question would be - what radios/bands are legal for that license?

VHF marine radios are legal for the VHF marine radio band without regard
for country.


Not entirely true. Depending on the country. Some still require
licenses, for various reasons.

That wasn't the issue.

The VHF marine band seems to be essentially the same with some differences
in channel assignment world wide.

Without even knowing what country you are in, the rest of the questions
are meaningless.

Anyway...

Like everything else these days, the Internet is full of reviews of VHF
marine radios.

Google is your friend.




And many of those are illegal to operate in some countries, even though
they aren't marked as such. Since he is asking here, I would expect he
wants to ensure he is legal.

I don't think reviews are illegal to operate in any country, though maybe
North Korea...

Oh, perhaps you meant buying a radio from the Internet; no I wouldn't
reccomend that unless the dealer was in my country if for no other reason
than to make sure the channels were set up for the idiosyncrasies of my
country.


--
Jim Pennino

wrote:

I don't think reviews are illegal to operate in any country, though maybe
North Korea...

The US has specific rules and regulations about land use of marine
frequencies. It would be best to find them out, there is a rumor floating
around the internet about an FCC officer happening to be at return end
of a boat rental stopping people and issuing NALs for people using
non approved or unlicensed radios for FRS GMRS and marine services.

Basically, you are licensed by use of a VHF marine radio ON A BOAT, but
having or using that radio in a car or building, or using it on land,
for example in a boat in your backyard is restricted.

There also is a story floating around the internet of a logging company
using marine radios on their boats and trucks being fined by the FCC.

Best to check it out from someone who knows the right answer before you
spend any money or get in trouble.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379

On 9/2/2013 12:01 AM, wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 9/1/2013 9:22 PM, wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 9/1/2013 6:38 PM, rickman wrote:
I am going to be providing shore monitoring for a kayak trip and will be
using a VHF radio from my pickup. I am thinking of installing a unit
rather than using a handheld. I took a look at what there is available
and it seems like the prices start at just over $100 for the unit itself
running up to $500 for a fancy unit that is mounted somewhere hidden and
all the controls in a hand held mic.

Other than the obvious features like the remote mic unit, what should I
look for in getting a quality unit that will work the best without
breaking the bank. I don't want to pay $500, but I will pay $200 or
more if there is a useful difference with the ~$100 units.

I doubt I'll be mounting this in a boat although that is a possibility
someday, I do have a ski boat. But more likely is that I'll mount it at
my house on a lake to provide some amount of emergency monitoring. So I
expect to mount it in the pickup so it can be easily removed and brought
into the house. I guess that means a second antenna too.

Words of advice?


The first question would be - what country are you in?

From the wording of the post, most likely the US. The use of $100 and
$500 is a big clue, though he could be in Canada, Autralia, New
New Zealand, or Trinidad. I would highly doubt it is any of the Asian
countries that have the dollar as the national currency.


Yes, but those make a difference. And BTW, last time I was in Hong
Kong, they also used $. It has been close to 20 years, though.

$100 Hong Kong is $12.89 US; I doubt you will find many VHF marine
radios $12.89 US.


There are amateur radios available for $500 HK. That is not out of
the question.

And I don't know what other countries use the dollar, but I'm sure there
are.


And I wouldn't want to get the op in trouble by providing information
incorrect to the country he is in.

The next question woulds be - what licenses do you hold? (Very little
is available without a license). I am assuming since you are asking
these questions you don't hold an amateur radio license.

If it is the US, no licence is required for VHF marine radio for any
vessel that is NOT required to carry radio equipment and traveling in
US waters.


Are you sure about that? I do remember Dad had to get a radio license
for his boat, even though he was operating in U.S. waters off the Gulf
coast of Florida. That was a few years ago, though. And the license
was free.

And at one time CB and private aircraft had to have a license; none do
anymore. Air and marine radars also used to require a license; not
anymore.


That could be for boats. I don't know, because I haven't checked.

However, he also was talking about SHORE monitoring - which definitely
requires a license, even for marine band.

Nope, there is a VHF marine channel specifically for chit chat from ship
to shore.


Which does not mean short stations do not have to be licensed. They
still do.

If it is Canada, essentially the same applies.

The third question would be - what radios/bands are legal for that license?

VHF marine radios are legal for the VHF marine radio band without regard
for country.


Not entirely true. Depending on the country. Some still require
licenses, for various reasons.

That wasn't the issue.


It is exactly the issue. You can't say whether a license is required or
not until you know what country the OP is in.

The VHF marine band seems to be essentially the same with some differences
in channel assignment world wide.


That does not mean the licensing requirements are the same.

Without even knowing what country you are in, the rest of the questions
are meaningless.

Anyway...

Like everything else these days, the Internet is full of reviews of VHF
marine radios.

Google is your friend.




And many of those are illegal to operate in some countries, even though
they aren't marked as such. Since he is asking here, I would expect he
wants to ensure he is legal.

I don't think reviews are illegal to operate in any country, though maybe
North Korea...


But you don't know. As I said before, in the U.S., marine stations
still need to be licensed when on land (the same is true of aircraft
radios, BTW).

Oh, perhaps you meant buying a radio from the Internet; no I wouldn't
reccomend that unless the dealer was in my country if for no other reason
than to make sure the channels were set up for the idiosyncrasies of my
country.



It doesn't matter where you buy the radio. There are shady brick and
mortar dealers also who try to make a buck by buying cheap overseas crap
and reselling it at a higher markup.

And just because the radio is legal in your country for some uses does
NOT mean it is legal in your country for ALL uses.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.

==================

In article , rickman
wrote:

I doubt I'll be mounting this in a boat although that is a possibility
someday, I do have a ski boat. But more likely is that I'll mount it at
my house on a lake to provide some amount of emergency monitoring. So I
expect to mount it in the pickup so it can be easily removed and brought
into the house. I guess that means a second antenna too.

Rick-

I am assuming you can manage the legal requirements for use of the
radio. As others mentioned, a license may be needed.

One question you must address, is what kind of range do you need to
cover? VHF radios are essentially line-of-sight. Due to the curvature
of the earth, the "radio horizon" will limit your range.

You can estimate the distance in miles to the radio horizon, as the
square root of twice the altitude of your antenna in feet. For example,
the antenna on the roof of your truck will be approximately five feet
off the ground. The square root of ten is about 3.2, so your horizon on
level ground will be about 3 miles away.

You can add the distance to the kayak's horizon to yours. So it would
matter if the kayak is on a mountainous stream or on the open ocean or
lake.

If vehicle mounting does not provide the range you need, a tall antenna
may be required at the house. (Have you considered using cell phones?)

Fred
K4DII

On 9/2/2013 1:11 AM, Fred McKenzie wrote:
In ,
wrote:

I doubt I'll be mounting this in a boat although that is a possibility
someday, I do have a ski boat. But more likely is that I'll mount it at
my house on a lake to provide some amount of emergency monitoring. So I
expect to mount it in the pickup so it can be easily removed and brought
into the house. I guess that means a second antenna too.

Rick-

I am assuming you can manage the legal requirements for use of the
radio. As others mentioned, a license may be needed.

One question you must address, is what kind of range do you need to
cover? VHF radios are essentially line-of-sight. Due to the curvature
of the earth, the "radio horizon" will limit your range.

You can estimate the distance in miles to the radio horizon, as the
square root of twice the altitude of your antenna in feet. For example,
the antenna on the roof of your truck will be approximately five feet
off the ground. The square root of ten is about 3.2, so your horizon on
level ground will be about 3 miles away.

You can add the distance to the kayak's horizon to yours. So it would
matter if the kayak is on a mountainous stream or on the open ocean or
lake.

If vehicle mounting does not provide the range you need, a tall antenna
may be required at the house. (Have you considered using cell phones?)

Hi Fred, I appreciate the response.

I'm not sure there is a lot of value to calculating the line of sight
for the antenna mount. I don't have much choice in the mount other than
having to make it lower because of some practical consideration like
hitting bridges... As to need, I want the max I can get of course. The
other end of the link will all be handheld radios.

The kayaks will be on the Chesapeake Bay, but close to shore. So land
obstructions will be the limiting factor most of the time. At least it
seemed that way on prior trips. But I don't have a lot of experience
with the hand held units we used so I'm not sure what I should have
expected.

The sort of issue I'm more interested in discussing are things like what
type of antenna and how best to mount and connect it to the radio. Of
course, I'm interested in the radios if anyone here has experience with
them. I see 25 Watt (which I'm assuming is the max available) units at
the bottom end for just over $100 and others which seem to be similar in
regards to the specs I understand for over $200 and of course the prices
run upward too. Are there aspects I should look for that I need to dig
deeper into the specs to find? For example is there some spec on the
internals of the receiver that would make a weakly received signal more
clear than another radio? What about the speaker itself? Would it be
better to have an external speaker or is the internal speaker usually ok?

I'm looking for advice from those who are experienced with marine VHF.
Of course, I don't know what I don't know, so I'm looking for help
figuring out the questions.

--

Rick

On 9/3/2013 12:47 PM, rickman wrote:
On 9/2/2013 1:11 AM, Fred McKenzie wrote:
In ,
wrote:

I doubt I'll be mounting this in a boat although that is a possibility
someday, I do have a ski boat. But more likely is that I'll mount it at
my house on a lake to provide some amount of emergency monitoring. So I
expect to mount it in the pickup so it can be easily removed and brought
into the house. I guess that means a second antenna too.

Rick-

I am assuming you can manage the legal requirements for use of the
radio. As others mentioned, a license may be needed.

One question you must address, is what kind of range do you need to
cover? VHF radios are essentially line-of-sight. Due to the curvature
of the earth, the "radio horizon" will limit your range.

You can estimate the distance in miles to the radio horizon, as the
square root of twice the altitude of your antenna in feet. For example,
the antenna on the roof of your truck will be approximately five feet
off the ground. The square root of ten is about 3.2, so your horizon on
level ground will be about 3 miles away.

You can add the distance to the kayak's horizon to yours. So it would
matter if the kayak is on a mountainous stream or on the open ocean or
lake.

If vehicle mounting does not provide the range you need, a tall antenna
may be required at the house. (Have you considered using cell phones?)

Hi Fred, I appreciate the response.

I'm not sure there is a lot of value to calculating the line of sight
for the antenna mount. I don't have much choice in the mount other than
having to make it lower because of some practical consideration like
hitting bridges... As to need, I want the max I can get of course. The
other end of the link will all be handheld radios.

The kayaks will be on the Chesapeake Bay, but close to shore. So land
obstructions will be the limiting factor most of the time. At least it
seemed that way on prior trips. But I don't have a lot of experience
with the hand held units we used so I'm not sure what I should have
expected.

The sort of issue I'm more interested in discussing are things like what
type of antenna and how best to mount and connect it to the radio. Of
course, I'm interested in the radios if anyone here has experience with
them. I see 25 Watt (which I'm assuming is the max available) units at
the bottom end for just over $100 and others which seem to be similar in
regards to the specs I understand for over $200 and of course the prices
run upward too. Are there aspects I should look for that I need to dig
deeper into the specs to find? For example is there some spec on the
internals of the receiver that would make a weakly received signal more
clear than another radio? What about the speaker itself? Would it be
better to have an external speaker or is the internal speaker usually ok?

I'm looking for advice from those who are experienced with marine VHF.
Of course, I don't know what I don't know, so I'm looking for help
figuring out the questions.


Rick,

You've answered a couple of questions here. First of all, you are in
the United States, so are governed by the FCC.

Marine radio licenses are not needed for the kayaks while on the river,
but land stations (i.e. your truck) would do.

You could be considered a "Private Coastal Station". You would have to
"provide a service to vessels..." to get this license. I'm not sure if
the FCC would consider talking to your kayaks to be "a service to
vessels" - I guess it could be argued that it is.

Another option would be a "Marine Utility Station" - these restricted to
handhelds with ten watts or less power. You still have to "provide a
service to vessels".

Another option would be the "General Mobile Radio Service". You don't
have to provide a service to vessels with this license, but it is
basically handhelds in the 1-5 watt range (and can have removable
antennas, so you could add an external antenna). You need a license
here, but family members can all operate under the same license
(individual licenses are not required).

Of course, every person operating a radio could get a ham license; you
would be much less restricted in your operation (power, frequencies,
etc.). You just can't use it for business - which it sounds like you
aren't. Each person would have to pass a test (not that hard and many
ham clubs around the country provide testing on a regular basis). Of
course, it gives you a lot of other options, also - like using a
repeater to extend the range of both the kayaks and your truck, assuming
one is available (I don't know what's available around the Chesapeake
River area, but this area is loaded with repeaters).

I hope this helps you with some ideas.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================