You're right Advanced was harder, Extra was just a bunch of rules, very
little theory.


Maybe Riley H. should take a look at the people who ran your Extra
Class examination. If it is as you said, then they didn't do it right.



Ed WB6SAT

"Ed G." wrote in message
. ..


You're right Advanced was harder, Extra was just a bunch of rules, very
little theory.


Maybe Riley H. should take a look at the people who ran your Extra
Class examination. If it is as you said, then they didn't do it right.



Ed WB6SAT



Talk to the Friendly Candy Company, they gave it.

--
Clif

"Helmut" wrote in message
...
......
what are you guys going to do, if you hear a station from lets say VK, GB,
DL, HB9, and many others, among them rare DX countries? First thing to ask
wether or not they did pass the CW Test? and then not continuing the QSO??
Would this be polite? hamlike? How would your reaction be if some DX ham
offends you like that?


The point is not that wanting qualified operators to have CW or any other
radio-related skill is done for any reason of elitism, it is that it USED
to take much effort to EARN a license. Now you can get the answers to
memorize for a few (far too few) questions and "earn" a license with only a
few days of "study". Those of us who took the exams at the FCC offices
without any chance of helpful hints, winks or nudges by those giving the
exam do not like seeing all our efforts wasted. I had a lot of trouble and
spent many, many hours studying to pass the 20 WPM test. I don't even like
CW operation very much. But I was glad I spent the time because it really
meant something to pass the tests. Now, I realize that it will have been a
WASTED EFFORT if this new plan goes through since I would have had extra
privileges anyway.

10-4 good buddy, I guess I might as well sell my linears at the nearest
truck stop.
---- Brian

Maybe Riley H. should take a look at the people who ran your
Extra Class examination. If it is as you said, then they didn't do
right.


Talk to the Friendly Candy Company, they gave it.


Help me out here, Clif. The FCC hasn't tested in many years, and I
can't find any Extra Class holders under your name in the FCC database???


Ed WB6SAT

The point is not that wanting qualified operators to have CW or any
other radio-related skill is done for any reason of elitism, it is
that it USED to take much effort to EARN a license. portion snipped
But I was glad I spent the time because it really meant something to
pass the tests. Now, I realize that it will have been a WASTED
EFFORT if this new plan goes through since I would have had extra
privileges anyway.


Brian, I understand your sentiment as I partly feel the same way, but
from what you have said above, it does appear that you place perhaps a bit
more value in your accomplishment in getting the license, and maybe a bit
too little in just enjoying the hobby?

Ed WB6SAT

Brian and Ed,

it is never wasted time, to learn and study, we are doing this our life
long. When brian where studying his 20wpm code, this was a bonehard job, and
he got his ticket. Now (maybe since many years) you are still enjoying
hamradio and you had many years of fun with it. To call this WASTED EFFORT,
you should have been waiting till you get the same ticket codefree. You
would have missed a lot of fun throughout the years.

Don't mourn about the reached, look out to have fun on the bands.

And, to answer some of the concernes about rottening down the holy HF-Band
in a CB-manner: Here in Europe, almost all the countries did go the way the
WRC agreed on. And there are zumteen thousand of Radio Amateurs, like in VK,
now reanimating the bands, a little humble for the beginning, maybe, but I
never heard, what you call CB-manners. Maybe this is a problem over there in
the US. We are going to help these new HF-Hams to step onto the train. And
we welcome them as if they were passing the same test as we did.

Greetings from the heart of Europe

Helmut
OE8SOQ
"Ed G." schrieb im Newsbeitrag
. ..


The point is not that wanting qualified operators to have CW or any
other radio-related skill is done for any reason of elitism, it is
that it USED to take much effort to EARN a license. portion snipped
But I was glad I spent the time because it really meant something to
pass the tests. Now, I realize that it will have been a WASTED
EFFORT if this new plan goes through since I would have had extra
privileges anyway.


Brian, I understand your sentiment as I partly feel the same way, but
from what you have said above, it does appear that you place perhaps a bit
more value in your accomplishment in getting the license, and maybe a bit
too little in just enjoying the hobby?

Ed WB6SAT

http://www.nocode.org/



"Ed G." wrote in message
. ..


It's all part of the "dumbing down of America" that has been going on
for the last 20-30 years.

Seems to me it started back farther than that.... probably in the late
60's when the "new math" was being pushed by pointy headed liberal
educators.



Ed WB6SAT

"Ed G." wrote in message
. ..

Maybe Riley H. should take a look at the people who ran your
Extra Class examination. If it is as you said, then they didn't do
right.


Talk to the Friendly Candy Company, they gave it.


Help me out here, Clif. The FCC hasn't tested in many years, and I
can't find any Extra Class holders under your name in the FCC database???


Ed WB6SAT


You're right, I never passed the code. Something about tinny headphones and
a noisy room. Except for Novice all my tests were given by the FCC in their
office downtown.

--
Clif Holland, KA5IPF

Bob:

Please keep in mind that, in general, the ham HF frequencies are much
friendly (and saner) than the newsgroups.

I've only been licensed a little over two years (I didn't "stop off" at
Tech). When studying for 4 exams, I posted a some questions to several of
the ham newsgroups -- mostly seeking advice on how to learn Code. There were
quite a few rants and raves. I was accused of trolling; I was told that
since I would pass easy tests, I would never be a REAL ham; I was told to go
back to the chicken band (despite the fact that I have never been on CB);
etc. etc.

I became very scared. If hams were this nasty, did I really want to invest
the time and money in this new hobby? Luckily a few kind souls were
supportive and friendly -- enough so that I went ahead and passed all the
elements the first time (which does prove they are too easy grin).

Once I got on the air almost everyone was kind, supportive, friendly,
helpful (add your own positive adjectives here). So, Bob, ignore the rants
here. I'm sure you will find that the vast majority will welcome you to HF.
Well, perhaps not on 75 meters. grin

Paul AB0SI





"Bob" wrote in message
...

Amen Bill,

There is one point that has not been addressed.

There will be a group of new hams on the HF bands, myself included,
how are you going to welcome them? Are you going to help them become
good legal operators or are you going to label them CB plussers, and
ignore, tout them?

Think about it. Here will be a pool of individuals who have expressed
a intrest in the hobby, treat them well and instruct them, you have to
have new blood to carry the tourch. They might even see the advantages
of CW and learn it!

I learned it in the Navy, but only use it when necessary for effective
communications.

Bob

KE4ZRU

Ex. Airborne Communications Officer
Ex. Staff Communications Officer

"Brian Bailey" wrote in message
...

"Helmut" wrote in message
...
.....
what are you guys going to do, if you hear a station from lets say VK,
GB,
DL, HB9, and many others, among them rare DX countries? First thing to
ask
wether or not they did pass the CW Test? and then not continuing the
QSO??
Would this be polite? hamlike? How would your reaction be if some DX ham
offends you like that?


The point is not that wanting qualified operators to have CW or any other
radio-related skill is done for any reason of elitism, it is that it USED
to take much effort to EARN a license. Now you can get the answers to
memorize for a few (far too few) questions and "earn" a license with only
a
few days of "study". Those of us who took the exams at the FCC offices
without any chance of helpful hints, winks or nudges by those giving the
exam do not like seeing all our efforts wasted. I had a lot of trouble
and
spent many, many hours studying to pass the 20 WPM test. I don't even
like
CW operation very much. But I was glad I spent the time because it really
meant something to pass the tests. Now, I realize that it will have been
a
WASTED EFFORT if this new plan goes through since I would have had extra
privileges anyway.

10-4 good buddy, I guess I might as well sell my linears at the nearest
truck stop.
---- Brian




No Brian it is not a wasted effort on your part. You did it the right way.
You didn't whine and bitch and moan until the testing was dumbed down to the
lowest denominator.

Unfortunatly this country is showing the rest of the world how NOT to do
things. If this sort of attitude persists we will cease to be a power on
this planet. And I don't mean military power.

I too had considered tossing it all away. But I won't. I am too dedicated
to the service to do that.

I will 'attempt' to show and if needed, to correct those that want to drag
the service downward to the level of CB.

I think this may actually help us CW types out. I expect a lot of folks
will be dragging out the keys to re-enter what they know was ham radio.

Dan/W4NTI

"Ed G." wrote in message
. ..


The point is not that wanting qualified operators to have CW or any
other radio-related skill is done for any reason of elitism, it is
that it USED to take much effort to EARN a license. portion snipped
But I was glad I spent the time because it really meant something to
pass the tests. Now, I realize that it will have been a WASTED
EFFORT if this new plan goes through since I would have had extra
privileges anyway.


Brian, I understand your sentiment as I partly feel the same way, but
from what you have said above, it does appear that you place perhaps a bit
more value in your accomplishment in getting the license, and maybe a bit
too little in just enjoying the hobby?

Ed WB6SAT

Thats not fair at all Ed. Brian is correct in what he says. We DID have
to work much harder. And it just is not right. Period.

Dan/W4NTI

"Bill Turner" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:15:21 +0000, Bob wrote:

There will be a group of new hams on the HF bands, myself included,
how are you going to welcome them? Are you going to help them become
good legal operators or are you going to label them CB plussers, and
ignore, tout them?

__________________________________________________ _______

Bob, your question is a good one, but there is a more subtle question
hidden within it.

Why do we even have a license structure which causes such divisiveness
between hams? I hate this beating of breasts and bragging about how
smart and clever I am to have an Extra class license and how dumb you
are since you don't.

The Old Timers will remember back in the days before incentive licensing
when there were essentially two licenses: Novice and General. The
Novice was just to get your feet wet and was non-renewable. You either
upped to General or gave up the hobby. The divisiveness we see today
didn't exist.

I miss those days.

--
73, Bill W6WRT

p.s. Purists will note there were other classes back then (Technician,
Conditional, Advanced) but the numbers were very small relative to
Novice and General.

Boy you hit that right on the head. Incentive licensing is the single
biggest reason we have all this bitching and moaning today.

I've said this ever since 1968 when most of my (then) General class
privledges were ripped from me.

Now we have the league with its 180 degree reversal on the subject. Can
anyone say hypocrite ?

Dan/W4NTI

snip"Unfortunatly this country is showing the rest of the world how NOT to
do"

NOT true! The majority of the world has already eliminated the code!


things.
"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message
ink.net...

"Brian Bailey" wrote in message
...

"Helmut" wrote in message
...
.....
what are you guys going to do, if you hear a station from lets say VK,
GB,
DL, HB9, and many others, among them rare DX countries? First thing to
ask
wether or not they did pass the CW Test? and then not continuing the
QSO??
Would this be polite? hamlike? How would your reaction be if some DX
ham
offends you like that?


The point is not that wanting qualified operators to have CW or any
other
radio-related skill is done for any reason of elitism, it is that it
USED
to take much effort to EARN a license. Now you can get the answers to
memorize for a few (far too few) questions and "earn" a license with
only
a
few days of "study". Those of us who took the exams at the FCC offices
without any chance of helpful hints, winks or nudges by those giving the
exam do not like seeing all our efforts wasted. I had a lot of trouble
and
spent many, many hours studying to pass the 20 WPM test. I don't even
like
CW operation very much. But I was glad I spent the time because it
really
meant something to pass the tests. Now, I realize that it will have
been
a
WASTED EFFORT if this new plan goes through since I would have had extra
privileges anyway.

10-4 good buddy, I guess I might as well sell my linears at the nearest
truck stop.
---- Brian




No Brian it is not a wasted effort on your part. You did it the right
way.
You didn't whine and bitch and moan until the testing was dumbed down to
the
lowest denominator.

Unfortunatly this country is showing the rest of the world how NOT to do
things. If this sort of attitude persists we will cease to be a power on
this planet. And I don't mean military power.

I too had considered tossing it all away. But I won't. I am too
dedicated
to the service to do that.

I will 'attempt' to show and if needed, to correct those that want to drag
the service downward to the level of CB.

I think this may actually help us CW types out. I expect a lot of folks
will be dragging out the keys to re-enter what they know was ham radio.

Dan/W4NTI

Bill Turner wrote:
On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 07:27:25 +0100, "Helmut" wrote:


it is never wasted time, to learn and study


__________________________________________________ _______

Nonsense. Many "studies" in life are a waste of time. A fool will
"study" anything. A wise man puts his efforts where they will do the
most good. The trick is to know the difference.

Your hours on this earth are limited. Don't waste them.

--
Bill, W6WRT
Hi,
So you want to build your castle on a sand dune? Study is continuation
in all your life. You just can't pick and choose.
The more you study, the better you become over all.
At least that is my idea. I am going back to univeristy to compete with
my kids side by side. Well, Sr. citizens are exempt from tuition as well.
So why not?
I guess you're really WISE MAN for sure. I am not.
73,
Tony, VE6CGX
(retired EE, class of '60)

CW proficiency on hf will be a moot point when powerline broadband fires up.
jim

"Bill Turner" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 22:06:09 -0500, "Ray D. Ator"
wrote:

No commercial interest wants space on HF-
VHF and up- different story!

__________________________________________________ _______

So let's trade our VHF bands for some nice, clean, EXCLUSIVE HF bands,
what say? :-)

--
Bill, W6WRT


That is what is happening right now. FCC making it so easy to get on HF and
vacating VHF. That way the govt can claim no activity on VHF/UHF and
auction it off for big bucks.

Then with all the new 'hams' on HF the bands will be so crowded that we will
have 'frequency fights' all over the hf spectrum. Thus giving the gobermint
a reason to sanction and eventually elliminate ham radio.

Don't believe me? Just watch.

Dan/W4NTI

The ARRL is a publishing company, the only way to maintain their existence
is for there to be
MANY MORE hams to BUY many books from them. I can remember a time when the
ARRL
actually represented the interests of ham radio, but they now have the
corporate mentality.
"What is that beeping noise on my radio? Oh well, I'll just talk over it."

"Mark Russo" wrote in message
...
One of these below will get you there...

Seems to me that they should bump up the current General class to
Advanced class.
This way people who worked hard to get to General will not be locked in
with the no code
folks. That seems fair?.


http://www.remote.arrl.org/news/stor.../01/19/1/?nc=1


Click he ARRLWeb: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free
HF Access

A license was required in the beginning that is true, however, the FCC
lost all control of the users so the feds took the easy way out. They
just did away with that little law and declared all users legal. Kinda
the way that amateur radio is going right now. Five bucks and my now
non-existing Advanced class ticket says that a no code, no written test
will be operating HF anywhere, any mode, yea verily!

HT3 wrote:
Isn't this the same thing that happened to the CB culture
in the mid to late 70's? Back then you had to license, but
all of a sudden that was too inconvenient. So licensing was
eliminated and every hemorrhoid could get a radio and ruin
the band.

Mark Russo wrote:

One of these below will get you there...

Seems to me that they should bump up the current General class to
Advanced class.
This way people who worked hard to get to General will not be locked in
with the no code
folks. That seems fair?.


http://www.remote.arrl.org/news/stor.../01/19/1/?nc=1


Click he ARRLWeb: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free
HF Access

Just follow the laws your losers.
You whine too much.
You ruin the hobby.
If you dont like ham radio,LEAVE.


"Butch" wrote in message
...
A license was required in the beginning that is true, however, the FCC
lost all control of the users so the feds took the easy way out. They
just did away with that little law and declared all users legal. Kinda
the way that amateur radio is going right now. Five bucks and my now
non-existing Advanced class ticket says that a no code, no written test
will be operating HF anywhere, any mode, yea verily!

HT3 wrote:
Isn't this the same thing that happened to the CB culture
in the mid to late 70's? Back then you had to license, but
all of a sudden that was too inconvenient. So licensing was
eliminated and every hemorrhoid could get a radio and ruin
the band.

Mark Russo wrote:

One of these below will get you there...

Seems to me that they should bump up the current General class to
Advanced class.
This way people who worked hard to get to General will not be locked in
with the no code
folks. That seems fair?.


http://www.remote.arrl.org/news/stor.../01/19/1/?nc=1


Click he ARRLWeb: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License,
Code-Free
HF Access

how about the know General class get made General+
like thay did the tech's
butt let tham do every thing thay are know
no low rf power
kb9yku
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 04:43:08 GMT, Mark Russo
wrote:

One of these below will get you there...

Seems to me that they should bump up the current General class to
Advanced class.
This way people who worked hard to get to General will not be locked in
with the no code
folks. That seems fair?.


http://www.remote.arrl.org/news/stor.../01/19/1/?nc=1


Click he ARRLWeb: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free
HF Access

If you bumped the Generals up to Advanced, you would start a war
because the Advanced users had to take a harder written test.
Remember, they had to work harder for it! Would everyone be happy if
there was just one license class for voice and have a code endorsement
if they passed the code? The last post kind of sounds more effective
than any I have heard in years since all this restructuring stuff
started. Keep all class licenses and just add a + to there license for
CW. Also allow the ones who want to talk voice do so on HF. By the
way, How many CB'rs do you know that can actually afford and expensive
Kenwood rig capable of going down that far anyways?

On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:48:17 -0500, safemale
wrote:

how about the know General class get made General+
like thay did the tech's
butt let tham do every thing thay are know
no low rf power
kb9yku
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 04:43:08 GMT, Mark Russo
wrote:

One of these below will get you there...

Seems to me that they should bump up the current General class to
Advanced class.
This way people who worked hard to get to General will not be locked in
with the no code
folks. That seems fair?.


http://www.remote.arrl.org/news/stor.../01/19/1/?nc=1


Click he ARRLWeb: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free
HF Access

Here is the best solution.

Return everyone back to NOVICE, CW only on 80, 40, 15 meters.

Allow ONLY EXTRA CLASS present holders that have passed the 20 WPM test to
operate the rest of HF.

Dan/W4NTI

"safemale" wrote in message
...
how about the know General class get made General+
like thay did the tech's
butt let tham do every thing thay are know
no low rf power
kb9yku
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 04:43:08 GMT, Mark Russo
wrote:

One of these below will get you there...

Seems to me that they should bump up the current General class to
Advanced class.
This way people who worked hard to get to General will not be locked in
with the no code
folks. That seems fair?.


http://www.remote.arrl.org/news/stor.../01/19/1/?nc=1


Click he ARRLWeb: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free
HF Access

And there you have it! :)

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 17:57:11 GMT, "Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this
mindspring.com wrote:

Here is the best solution.

Return everyone back to NOVICE, CW only on 80, 40, 15 meters.

Allow ONLY EXTRA CLASS present holders that have passed the 20 WPM test to
operate the rest of HF.

Dan/W4NTI

"safemale" wrote in message
.. .
how about the know General class get made General+
like thay did the tech's
butt let tham do every thing thay are know
no low rf power
kb9yku
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 04:43:08 GMT, Mark Russo
wrote:

One of these below will get you there...

Seems to me that they should bump up the current General class to
Advanced class.
This way people who worked hard to get to General will not be locked in
with the no code
folks. That seems fair?.


http://www.remote.arrl.org/news/stor.../01/19/1/?nc=1


Click he ARRLWeb: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free
HF Access

Dannie Boy, the supposed "CW GOD" ranted:
Return everyone back to NOVICE, CW only on 80, 40, 15 meters. Allow ONLY
EXTRA CLASS present holders that have passed the 20 WPM test to
operate the rest of HF.

And re-test Extras every 2 years...2 years w/o privileges if they don't pass a
250 question test and 20WPM...and drop 'em to Novice if they're caught cussing
on the band...or pull their ticket. THAT will open up some of the bands!

Humph..think I'll stay on 6M CW/SSB....seems like a better class of folks up
there.

Besides, if Dannie Boy's solution went into effect, we'd HAVE no Amateur
Service. This is EXACTLY what some in the FCC would like to
accomplish.....they could then sell off the rest of the freq. spectrum. Big $$
in their pockets!

A

GREAT idea Dan! SparksDan/W4NTI wrote:

Here is the best solution.

Return everyone back to NOVICE, CW only on 80, 40, 15 meters.

Allow ONLY EXTRA CLASS present holders that have passed the 20 WPM test to
operate the rest of HF.

Dan/W4NTI

"safemale" wrote in message
...
how about the know General class get made General+
like thay did the tech's
butt let tham do every thing thay are know
no low rf power
kb9yku
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 04:43:08 GMT, Mark Russo
wrote:

One of these below will get you there...

Seems to me that they should bump up the current General class to
Advanced class.
This way people who worked hard to get to General will not be locked in
with the no code
folks. That seems fair?.


http://www.remote.arrl.org/news/stor.../01/19/1/?nc=1


Click he ARRLWeb: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License, Code-Free
HF Access

Maybe for you. It's not the best solution for all hams.


"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message
k.net...
Here is the best solution.

Return everyone back to NOVICE, CW only on 80, 40, 15 meters.

Allow ONLY EXTRA CLASS present holders that have passed the 20 WPM test to
operate the rest of HF.

Dan/W4NTI

"safemale" wrote in message
...
how about the know General class get made General+
like thay did the tech's
butt let tham do every thing thay are know
no low rf power
kb9yku
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 04:43:08 GMT, Mark Russo
wrote:

One of these below will get you there...

Seems to me that they should bump up the current General class to
Advanced class.
This way people who worked hard to get to General will not be locked in
with the no code
folks. That seems fair?.


http://www.remote.arrl.org/news/stor.../01/19/1/?nc=1


Click he ARRLWeb: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License,
Code-Free
HF Access

Sure it is, you just don't know it yet.

Dan/W4NTI

"K2NNJ" wrote in message
et...
Maybe for you. It's not the best solution for all hams.


"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message
k.net...
Here is the best solution.

Return everyone back to NOVICE, CW only on 80, 40, 15 meters.

Allow ONLY EXTRA CLASS present holders that have passed the 20 WPM test
to
operate the rest of HF.

Dan/W4NTI

"safemale" wrote in message
...
how about the know General class get made General+
like thay did the tech's
butt let tham do every thing thay are know
no low rf power
kb9yku
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 04:43:08 GMT, Mark Russo
wrote:

One of these below will get you there...

Seems to me that they should bump up the current General class to
Advanced class.
This way people who worked hard to get to General will not be locked
in
with the no code
folks. That seems fair?.


http://www.remote.arrl.org/news/stor.../01/19/1/?nc=1


Click he ARRLWeb: ARRL to Propose New Entry-Level License,
Code-Free
HF Access

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 17:57:11 GMT, "Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this
mindspring.com wrote:

Here is the best solution.

Return everyone back to NOVICE, CW only on 80, 40, 15 meters.


75 Watts, Xtal control only, of course, like the good old days!
W4OLF

"Brian Bailey" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 17:57:11 GMT, "Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this
mindspring.com wrote:

Here is the best solution.

Return everyone back to NOVICE, CW only on 80, 40, 15 meters.


75 Watts, Xtal control only, of course, like the good old days!
W4OLF



Exactly and your the only one to notice.

Dan/W4NTI

Where is Wayne Green, W2NSD when you need Him..


The A.R.R.L SUCKS..

Just my opinion..

Bob