RadioBanter - View Single Post

October 14th 04, 08:03 PM

In article ,
(William) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article , "Kim"
writes:

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Steve

In article ,

(Len Over 21) writes:

Morse code is slower that ALL modes.

"slower that ALL"??

Dug this up this morning. Goodness, it's getting hard to find anything on
this newsgroup that is really worth even bothering with.

"Morse code is slower than ALL modes." Hmmmm, that's a rather interesting
observation. I think it would have to be determined on when and where.
If
there's a CW net in progress and there are not very experienced people,
then
it probably would be pretty darned slow--and repetitive.

Kim, you are welcome to hold any belief system you wish, but the
FACT that on-off-keyed "CW" morse IS the slowest communications
mode in use today or in use a half century ago. I've seen it up close
and personal throughout this whole past half century. It is evidenciary
in the REST of the radio communications world.

The slowest teleprinter rates of a half century ago was 60 WPM and,
to some degree still with old, worn-out surplus teleprinters of that
era. With Mark-Space shift of 170 Hz, those old, cranky 60 WPM
Teletypes need less than 400 Hz of bandwidth to transmit in FSK.
Those ancient machines (already around well before Jimmie was
born) can run continuously at 60 WPM throughput as long as they
are fed paper rolls and paper tape. I once watched over 200 such
teleprinters busy, busy working continuously 24/7 in the same
place on several "networks."

The old electromechanical Teletypes of the 1970s can sustain 100
WPM throughput as long as the old 1940s era machines did. A
modern PC can emulate either of them and go faster, having much
more mass memory to store archives of network messages.

It is the EXCEPTIONAL rarity now to find any two morsemen at
each end of a ham radio circuit who can do SUSTAINED "network"
communications by on-off-keyed "CW" morse at 40 WPM for
hours. HOURS. Networks need hours if the number of messages
are great.

I've known a couple of speed freak morsemen who had regular
QSOs along the California coast, doing bursting rates of about
60 WPM for a minute or so at a time. I took their word for it, not
hearing their ham transmissions. A minute or so at a high rate of
morse is not good enough for real networking, copying down and
recording for later re-transmission of message content.

However, under dire circumstances when, presumably, a CW net would be
underway with very experienced communicators and would be the fastest,
most
efficient method of communication (hands down, no pun intended). For
once,
this is a thread wherein the real point of CW can be highlighted. CW may
or
may not ALWAYS be the "one mode that gets through when no other will."
But,
it's hard to argue that CW--if clear and done well--is the fastest and
most
efficient mode.

Nonsense alive and well only in the imaginative fantasies of mighty
macho morsemen. Real networks don't operate on imagination.
"Error-free" messages don't get relayed through self-glorified boasting.

The rest of the radio communications AND wire communications world
learned that between a full century and a half century ago. That's why
NONE of them use morse code for message communications now.

All that said, I think that radiotelegraphy IS faster than the old
British
and French semaphore communications systems. Morse radio-
telegraphy IS faster than the pony express and IS faster than paper
surface mail. Radiotelegraphy does reach out farther than the human
voice can transmit unaided by anything but the human body.
Other than that, morse radiotelegraphy still remains the slowest
mode of communications available to radio amateurs.

Those who want to fantasize that morse is "faster" or "better" will
have to set up a controlled test NOT in morse favor to demonstrate
that alleged fact. Let all those might macho morsemen sustain
20 to 40 WPM continuously for an 8-hour period...and do the
communications with LESS error than any teleprinter circuit.

Jim has stated that the throughput of a rtty system may be limited by
the typing speed of the operator. The example he used is that the
rtty operator might only be able to type 10wpm, thus rendering the
rtty a 10wpm machine.

Jimmie apparently has lots and lots of teleprinter inexperience to
draw contusions from. Hi hi.

The old, old Teletypes could be handled by relatively inexperienced
touch typists at about 40 WPM without preparing any p-tape. Not
a problem as I found out in the Army after a year's absence from
any typing device and four years after taking my first middle school
typing class. After a week of that, simple practice allowed doing it
at the machine maximum of 60 WPM. [the Model 15 through
Model 19 would actually "kick back" and refuse to accept key
input faster than 60 WPM].

There's somewhat the same keyboard lock-out at maximum rate
in the Model 28s and later that are 100 WPM maximums. Few
touch typists can go that fast except in bursts.

It's a fact, visible to anyone around a real communications center,
that p-tape is what is used for continuous throughput. It was that
way during WW2 at Washington Army Radio and continued on
through AUTODIN days until the DSN replaced almost all of it.

Even though Jimmie is ready to make remarks about an older
article on "morse code mainstay" (or something like it) at WAR,
the Signal Corps historical facts are that teleprinting was the
bulk message carrier in the U.S. military back in WW2 times.

I responded that the throughput of a CW system might be limited by the
Morse Code operator only knowing the code at 10wpm.

That's totally irrelevant when trying to "discuss" morsemanship
with a morseman. :-)

Morsemanship is always "discussed" by morsemen at the highest
possible rates, of course with zero errors at both ends of the
circuit. Non-morse communications are always done (according
to morsemen) at the slowest possible rates and with a maximum
of errors.

So, according to the mighty macho morsemen, all those OTHER
radio services NOT using morse code for messaging are always
"in error," "telling lies," "misrepresenting the facts," etc. :-)

Tsk. All those other radio services involved in communications
simply stopped using on-off keyed "CW" morse because it was
slow, error-prone, and subject to human frailties of many kinds.

I wanted to know how that was different from his example. So far no
response.

Don't expect any. :-)

Jimmie dreams his dreams of being the Best, or at least among
the very best morsemen at a time when the rest of the world has
gotten on with change and long ago changed to newer, faster,
better techniques of communications by radio.

He wants all of amateur radio to idolize, revere, respect, and honor
morsemen and to keep on recreating the past of the 30s and 20s
when the real radio communications pioneering was going on. Not
having existed at that time, he wants to relive it over and over again
to the point of making tube rigs during the 1990s as an example of
"advancing the state of the amateur radio art." [using "recycled"
parts, of course...:-) ] Recycled "state of the art" also.

The Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society should be proud of him. :-)