On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 12:26:22 -0500, Dave Hall
wrote in :

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 03:27:04 -0800, Frank Gilliland
wrote:

We live in a society. This has obvious benefits, but it also demands
some responsibilities. One of those responsibilites is to make sure
everyone has a reasonable opportunity to succeed and not become a
burden on our society.

No, that is not necessarily true. We have the responsibility as a
society to provide opportunities. But we bare no responsibility to
guarantee success.


I said nothing about a guarantee of success, only the opportunity to
succeed.


You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.


Your horse is drinking from the wrong end if you think an
"opportunity" is also a "guarantee".


But because there are racist attitudes among
many employers, there are fewer opportunities for people of other
races. It then becomes the responsibility of everyone else to pick up
the slack left by the racists. That's why we have affirmative action.

I think we all understand why AA came to be. The problem is that what
AA does in essence, is to fight discrimination with reverse
discrimination.


Yes it is. The difference is that opportunities are lost when racial
discrimination is based on prejudice; lost opportunities are regained
when discrimination is used to counter the consequences of prejudice.


Is it fair, that someone who is not a part of the recognized minority
(And this is not just blacks. It could be women, latinos, gays, or
anyone who isn't a WASP male), who goes through the right hoops,
studies hard, and works to make his place in society, only to have his
"place" taken from him and given to an arbitrary person of recognized
minority status, who did not work nearly as hard?


I think you switched positions in mid-speech, but I understood what
you were saying. I lost my job at HP because of AA but I didn't lay
down a die. I had a pretty good resume and a fine recommendation. It
wasn't long before I had another job. And it worked out for the best
since the local HP plant turned sour a short time later. I have plenty
of opportunities and I can afford to give up a few for a good cause.


So don't blame the government and don't blame people "of color". Blame
Canada..... (hehe, just kidding). The problem originates with racist
attitudes which have been around for quite a while and aren't going
away anytime soon.

Minority people share much of the responsibility for their own
situation. Many throw up their hands when things get tough and simply
blame it on the "white folks".


You actually think that kind of projection is exclusive to minorities?
Look in the mirror, Dave -- in many of your posts over the years you
have clearly stated that you don't want to share the responsibilities
of society, so you blame all the country's problems on the liberals.
That's prejudice, Dave.


While racism is still alive and well in
many places, it's a shadow of what it was 50 years ago.


It's just hiding in the shadows. And in the airports since the Patriot
Act went into effect. Racial profiling, despite Bush's excuse that it
weeds out terrorists, is nothing more than racial discrimination based
upon prejudice.

BTW, ever hear of Mark Fuhrman? He lives in Idaho right across the
state line from here, and just a few miles from where Richard Butler
had his neo-Nazi compound which drew support from anonymous people all
across the nation. But I suppose you're right, racism is pretty much
dead, huh?


By cooperating with Affirmative Action you are
shouldering the responsibilities that are shirked by racist employers,
and for that you should be commended -- after all, nobody is forcing
you to do business with Issaquah, are they?

I'd be curious as to some of the claims of racism. How many people of
recognized minority status who claim "racism" or discrimination, are
simply playing that card as a cover for simply being inferior to
another potential job candidate?


I'd be curious to know how many people use that argument to justify
their racism?


Then you have to consider that the more we make laws and policies that
highlight and call attention to our differences, the more they will
remain? The answer to true equality in not to emphasize our
differences, but to eliminate them.


Just one "master race", huh Dave?