From: Jimmie D on Tues, Oct 17 2006 7:46 pm

wrote in message
From: Nada Tapu on Sat, Sep 30 2006 2:23 pm
On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:56:08 -0400, wrote:


no slow code the number are down because with Code testing looks so
stpupid

The numbers are down for a variety of reasons, but I suspect that
computers and the internet are the major factors, not the CW
requirement.

The ready-built Personal Computer first appeared in 1976,
30 years ago (the "IBM PC" debuted in 1980, 26 years ago).
The Internet went public in 1991, 15 years ago.
"Restructuring" to drop the morse test rate to 5 WPM
for all such tests happened only 6 years ago.

The peak licensing of 737,938 happened on 2 Jul 03, just
3 years ago. [they've been dropping at an average of 7K
per year ever since]

I disagree on your reasons stated in your quote above.

When I ask technical people about why they haven't
acquired an interest in amateur radio, I never get the CW requirement
as a response.

Strange, I hear that response. Having been IN radio-
electronics for over a half century, I DO know some
"technical people." :-)

Manual radiotelegraphy was a MUST to use early radio
as a communications medium. The technology of early
radio was primitive, simple, and not yet developed.
On-off keying was the ONLY practical way to make it
possible to communicate. Morse code was then already
mature and a new branch of communications was open
to use by downsized landline telegraphers.

They simply view the whole service as outmoded in the
face of modern telecommunications.

PART of that IS true. NOT all of it.

What IS outmoded (technically) is sitting only on HF
and "working" other stations with morse radiotelegraphy.
Amateur radio is the ONLY radio service still using
morse radiotelegraphy for communications purposes.

Another thing outmoded is the strict "necessity" to use
a formalism in "procedure" AS IF it was "professional"
radio. That formalism was established between 50 to 70
years ago. Amateur radio, by definition, is NOT
professional. Too many olde-tymers want to PRETEND
they are pros in front of their ham rigs.

But, there is still an enormous area of the EM spectrum
that is still open for experimentation, for just the fun
of doing something out of the ordinary above 30 MHz.
That can be a very different RF environment, much much
different than the technology available in the 20s and
30s. It has exciting possibilities...except for the
rutted and mired olde-tymers unable to keep up with new
things, secure in their own dreams of youth and simple
technological environment.

Let's face it.. the romance is gone.

Oh, boo hoo...the "romance" of the 1930s is gone? Yes,
it IS. The "pioneering of the airwaves" below 30 MHz
has been DONE...mostly by the pros of radio (despite what
the ARRL claims). DONE a long time ago. The solid-state
era came into being about 45 years ago and has
revolutionized ALL electronics (radio is a subset of that).

Except as memorabilia trinkets of the past, GONE is the
analog VFO, GONE is the one-tube regenerative receiver,
GONE is the single-crystal-single-frequency Tx, GONE is
the big, bulky AM modulator amplifier, GONE is the not-
knowing-when-the-bands-are-open (solar activity and
ionosonding solved that and HF MUF is a predictable
item that can be found by a computer program). Except
for the boatanchor afficionados, vacuum tubes are GONE
for nearly everything but high-power transmitters.

The radio world of today is NOT that of 1950, nor of
1960, nor 1970, nor even 1980s. It keeps changing,
advancing, the state of the art never static. For the
stuck-in-the-mud olde tymers that is terrible...they
feel insecure on not being able to keep up, become
aggressive to newcomers ("no kids, lids or space
cadets") and retreat to the "secure" mode of their
youth, "CW." But, they want to make sure They get
the respect they feel they've "earned" (as if) so
they try and try and try to bring all down to THEIR
level...the code test MUST stay..."because."

There are 100 million two-way radios in use in the USA
alone, millions more in other countries. Those are the
cellular telephones. There are millions of VHF and UHF
transceivers in the USA, working daily for public
safety agencies, ships, private boats, air carriers as
well as private airplanes. There are tens of thousands
of HF transceivers in use in the USA, users being
everyone from government agencies to private boat
owners, ALL exclusive of amateur radio users. Where is
the "romance" in all this Plenty from a cornucopia that
all have grabbed? It is GONE, yes.

But, NEW "romances" await. DIFFERENT ones, I'd say a
helluva lot more complex than old, simple "radio." We
can't relive old "romances" except in our minds and we
can't grow physically younger. Only person-to-person
romance is TRUE, the other "romance" is of the
imagination, of the fantasy of what was once there.
This fantasy "romance" can't be brought back. It can't
be legislated into remaining static. The rules and
regulations have to change to keep up with the NOW.

Total agreement here, our obligation of service to to earn our privlegdes
doesnt end with what we have done but with what we have done lately.

Sorry, but I see absolutely NO "obligation to perform
some service [to the nation or community]." That is one
of the myths promulgated by the ARRL and its followers.

The word "service" used by the FCC all throughout Title
47 C.F.R., all Parts, is a regulatory term referring to
a type and kind of radio activity being regulated.
[see Citizens Band Radio SERVICE or Radio Control Radio
SERVICE as two examples in Part 95] Also, as Cecil Moore
mentioned, the government is doing its citizens a service,
NOT the other way around.

If an individual WANTS to VOLUNTARILY perform some service,
then excellent. There is NO "obligation" to do so unless
there is some law requiring it. Personally, I think all
citizens of the USA should do at least one term of Jury
Service. In California there is a state law that eligible
citizens shall serve, for a time and times as stated by
law. [I've done five terms of Jury Service here] Anyone
who WANTS to voluntarily sit in on a court is allowed to
(with some special conditions not permitting certain
trials). Those spectators are NOT obligated to do so.

USA amateur radio service is a VOLUNTARY activity. It is
an avocation, not an occupation. In other words it is a
HOBBY. It's a fine hobby, tens of thousands of citizens
engaged in it. But, it is still a HOBBY. It is NOT
"essential" for the good of the nation. It is high time
that everyone quit dreaming about imaginary glory of
"serving the community" through amateur radio...time to
look at what it IS in the real world.

Jimmie D wrote:
His statement was "Ask not what your country can do for you but what you
can do for your country"
I dont remember the word government being mentioned in it.

For professional politicians, the government and
the country are indistinguishable.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

wrote:
From: Jimmie D on Tues, Oct 17 2006 7:46 pm
wrote in message
From: Nada Tapu on Sat, Sep 30 2006 2:23 pm
On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:56:08 -0400, wrote:


Total agreement here, our obligation of service to to earn our privlegdes
doesnt end with what we have done but with what we have done lately.

Sorry, but I see absolutely NO "obligation to perform
some service [to the nation or community]."

Not for any particular individual, anyway.

That is one
of the myths promulgated by the ARRL and its followers.

That's a falsehood, Len. ARRL talks about the service provided by
amateur radio, but does not say there is an obligation to do so.

The word "service" used by the FCC all throughout Title
47 C.F.R., all Parts, is a regulatory term referring to
a type and kind of radio activity being regulated.
[see Citizens Band Radio SERVICE or Radio Control Radio
SERVICE as two examples in Part 95] Also, as Cecil Moore
mentioned, the government is doing its citizens a service,
NOT the other way around.

Irrelevant.

If an individual WANTS to VOLUNTARILY perform some service,
then excellent.

And they do!

There is NO "obligation" to do so unless
there is some law requiring it.

Agreed!

However, one of the justifications for the continued existence of the
Amateur Radio Service is the public service performed by radio amateurs
using amateur radio.

Personally, I think all
citizens of the USA should do at least one term of Jury
Service. In California there is a state law that eligible
citizens shall serve, for a time and times as stated by
law. [I've done five terms of Jury Service here] Anyone
who WANTS to voluntarily sit in on a court is allowed to
(with some special conditions not permitting certain
trials). Those spectators are NOT obligated to do so.

Irrelevant.

USA amateur radio service is a VOLUNTARY activity. It is
an avocation, not an occupation. In other words it is a
HOBBY.

It's not just a hobby, though.

It's a fine hobby, tens of thousands of citizens
engaged in it.

Hundreds of thousands of US citizens.

But, it is still a HOBBY.

It's not just a hobby, though.

It is NOT
"essential" for the good of the nation.

How do you know for sure?

It is high time
that everyone quit dreaming about imaginary glory of
"serving the community" through amateur radio...time to
look at what it IS in the real world.

What does that mean?

Amateur Radio does indeed perform public service - voluntarily. That's
a fact, not an opinion.

wrote:
From: Jimmie D on Tues, Oct 17 2006 7:46 pm
wrote in message
From: Nada Tapu on Sat, Sep 30 2006 2:23 pm
On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:56:08 -0400, wrote:


Total agreement here, our obligation of service to to earn our privlegdes
doesnt end with what we have done but with what we have done lately.

Sorry, but I see absolutely NO "obligation to perform
some service [to the nation or community]."

That you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

That is one
of the myths promulgated by the ARRL and its followers.

Where? You have just spouted a falsehood, Len.

The word "service" used by the FCC all throughout Title
47 C.F.R., all Parts, is a regulatory term referring to
a type and kind of radio activity being regulated.
[see Citizens Band Radio SERVICE or Radio Control Radio
SERVICE as two examples in Part 95] Also, as Cecil Moore
mentioned, the government is doing its citizens a service,
NOT the other way around.

Irrelevant.


If an individual WANTS to VOLUNTARILY perform some service,
then excellent. There is NO "obligation" to do so unless
there is some law requiring it.

What about a moral obligation?

Suppose I were driving on a winding country road and came upon the
scene of a one-car accident that had occurred only a few minutes before
I arrived.

And suppose the occupants of the car in the accident needed help, and I
had the means to call for help.

Would I not have at least a moral obligation, if not a legal one, to
call for help?

Suppose the only available communication was by Amateur Radio - would I
not have at least a moral obligation, if not a legal one, to use
Amateur Radio to call for help?

Personally, I think all
citizens of the USA should do at least one term of Jury
Service.

Even those who are not mentally or physically competent to do so? Would
you want to be judged by a jury composed of the mentally ill? They're
citizens.

In California there is a state law that eligible
citizens shall serve, for a time and times as stated by
law. [I've done five terms of Jury Service here] Anyone
who WANTS to voluntarily sit in on a court is allowed to
(with some special conditions not permitting certain
trials). Those spectators are NOT obligated to do so.

Irrelevant.

USA amateur radio service is a VOLUNTARY activity. It is
an avocation, not an occupation. In other words it is a
HOBBY.

But it's not just a hobby.

It's a fine hobby, tens of thousands of citizens
engaged in it.

Hundreds of thousands of US citizens.

But, it is still a HOBBY. It is NOT
"essential" for the good of the nation.

Says who?

It is high time
that everyone quit dreaming about imaginary glory of
"serving the community" through amateur radio...time to
look at what it IS in the real world.

Does amateur radio not perform any service to the community, Len?

Not dropped here.

Even 9 year olds can learn the code.

Barry OGrady wrote:
Not since it was dropped completly 3 years ago.

Barry
=====
Home page
http://members.iinet.net.au/~barry.og

wrote:

On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 08:58:09 -0400, Dave wrote:


Not dropped here.

Even 9 year olds can learn the code.

some can maening it is worhtless and unneeded for the rest

Barry OGrady wrote:

Not since it was dropped completly 3 years ago.


"Worthless and Unneeded"? That was NOT the question!! Learn to answer the
question! READ THE SUBJECT LINE.

No one asked whether it is useful, it absolutely is, the question is: is it
"keeping good people out of ham radio?"

NOPE!!!

/s/ DD

"Mark in the Dark" wrote in
:

On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 08:58:09 -0400, Dave wrote:

Not dropped here.

Even 9 year olds can learn the code.
some can maening it is worhtless and unneeded for the rest



Eliminating CW will let in more people like 'Mark in the Dark'. That
won't be good for the rest of us if we enjoy having good intelligent
QSO's.

SC

wrote in :

On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 08:58:09 -0400, Dave wrote:

Not dropped here.

Even 9 year olds can learn the code.
some can maening it is worhtless and unneeded for the rest

Barry OGrady wrote:
Not since it was dropped completly 3 years ago.

Barry
=====
Home page
http://members.iinet.net.au/~barry.og
http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/




It let Mark in the Dark in.

SC

Slow Code wrote:

It didnt keep you out

On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 16:28:34 -0400, Dave spake
thusly:

wrote:

On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 08:58:09 -0400, Dave wrote:


Not dropped here.

Even 9 year olds can learn the code.

some can maening it is worhtless and unneeded for the rest

Barry OGrady wrote:

Not since it was dropped completly 3 years ago.


"Worthless and Unneeded"? That was NOT the question!! Learn to answer the
question! READ THE SUBJECT LINE.

No one asked whether it is useful, it absolutely is, the question is: is it
"keeping good people out of ham radio?"

NOPE!!!

Sorry, but I can say for an absolute fact that your 're wrong. It had
kept me out of ham radio and I know exactly what kind of person that I
am. And before the obligatory "lazy" word is trotted out, I have to
work for the pay cheque that buys the radio, pays the rent for the
building that the radio is in and pays for the tower that is in the
back yard. I have to work extra to pay MORE for a place where I am
allowed a tower, as opposed to less expensive digs.

Honestly, I can't believe how some pro-coders look down on no-coders
with such contempt. I was once a member of a "live steam" model
railroad club. These were larger model steam trains that ran with real
steam instead of electric power. They could be run with either propane
or coal, depending on the individual. The guys who built their
locomotives from scratch NEVER looked down on the guys who bought
theirs from a classified ad. The guys burning coal did NOT call the
propane guys "lazy". We all enjoyed a fine hobby and club meetings
were always good fun and most informative. It was great for a
mechanic, like myself, to rub shoulders with experienced retired
machinists who built these locomotives. At one of our "open houses",
which were located outdoors at the club track, my daughter took her
first steps.

Isn't ham radio supposed to be like that? Is there no camaraderie?