Hi members of the antenna group,
Seems like the group is getting bogged down into sniping, here another
chance
to get back to antennas. I tried with another post yesterday but the
choice of attention is still to those who want to snipe.

With a driven element you have two circular radiation patterns at each
section.
Before you start to focus a beam for gain by adding parassitic elements
you must first collect
maximuml radiation to the desired direction.
Sooooooooooooo............................
with these two circular patterns from the driven element you fold the
pattern in the middle
so that both patterns are in the same direction and the same shape i.e
a circle that expands to a larger circle but holding on to a particular
half power beam width which is an included angle.
So when we start to add parassitics we are able to deal with this
CIRCLE of radiation which then focusses by squeezing of the pattern
since it cannot add to the initial pattern.
I think the above clearly shows that for recovering of radiation from
the rear direction in any form must produce a radiation pattern to the
front by retaining a circular pattern. Now I have achieved
such a transformation of a driven element with a reflector to produce
an initial circular pattern via computor analysis which agrees in my
mind that rear radiation does nothing fto add to the forward radiation
lobe.
This is contrary to the thinking of some pseudo experts on this
newsgroup. So what is really happening, take a shot at it even if you
do not consider your self an expert since we want your participation as
well as the experts who will probably hang back to be guided by what
others have to say.
Now we can ignore this posting since it is about antennas.
We can use a sniping tactic by changing the subject to a direction
that you want .
You can resort to saying I don't understand the question..
We can debate alternative arguments where you tend to disagree and show
why e.t.c .
So what do you want for this newsgroup? ( Are you listening Walt)
An augument, a debate as to why a radiation pattern changed from
circucular or do you prefer to extend the threads from slow code and
others of his type who are not here to talk about antennas. Or should
we await a similar question to get back on track from one of the old
members of this newsgroup who are unhappy with the state of things?.
Your choice guys ! Are you a follower or a leader?
Regards
Art

On 20 Oct 2006 13:30:41 -0700, "art" wrote:

Seems like the group is getting bogged down into sniping, here another
chance
....
This is contrary to the thinking of some pseudo experts on this
newsgroup.

so it would seem.

you contradict yourself, and don't understand the problem.... there, i said
it.

"art" wrote in message
oups.com...

With a driven element you have two circular radiation patterns at each
section.

no you don't. a single dipole element like a common driven element all by
itself in free space has a doughnut shaped pattern in 3 dimensions. the
typical cross section you see in an azmuth slice is only part of the
story... but continue...

Before you start to focus a beam for gain by adding parassitic elements
you must first collect
maximuml radiation to the desired direction.
Sooooooooooooo............................
with these two circular patterns from the driven element you fold the
pattern in the middle
so that both patterns are in the same direction and the same shape i.e
a circle that expands to a larger circle but holding on to a particular
half power beam width which is an included angle.
So when we start to add parassitics we are able to deal with this
CIRCLE of radiation which then focusses by squeezing of the pattern
since it cannot add to the initial pattern.

just how do you plan on doing this?? you can't take and just fold a field
around???

I think the above clearly shows that for recovering of radiation from
the rear direction in any form must produce a radiation pattern to the
front by retaining a circular pattern. Now I have achieved
such a transformation of a driven element with a reflector to produce
an initial circular pattern via computor analysis which agrees in my
mind that rear radiation does nothing fto add to the forward radiation
lobe.

but you said above that you would do this before adding parasitic elements.
what do you think a 'reflector' is?? wait, i can answer that, its a
parasitic element!

weather it agrees with your mind or not doesn't matter... it has to be
physically realizable. so what is this magic configuration that gives 100%
folding of the lobes over themselves?? and what happens in the 3rd
dimension?

Now we can ignore this posting since it is about antennas.

your first idea is the best, so i snipped the rest.

Dave wrote:
you contradict yourself, and don't understand the problem.... there, i said
it.

"art" wrote in message
oups.com...

With a driven element you have two circular radiation patterns at each
section.

no you don't. a single dipole element like a common driven element all by
itself in free space has a doughnut shaped pattern in 3 dimensions. the
typical cross section you see in an azmuth slice is only part of the
story... but continue...

Correct David,
I don't know who you are but you are quite correct in stating that the
question must revolve around an array in space. Now that clarity is
established hopefully the debate will remain professional without
sniping
Best regards
Art


SNIP

art wrote:
Now that clarity is
established hopefully the debate will remain professional without
sniping
Best regards
Art

Sniping is fun when done under the clinical supervision of a doktor.
They even have sniping services on the web now that will do the
sniping for you. But I've been a fairly successful sniper just using
the old fashioned manual method of waiting until about 3 seconds
before the auction ends, and firing away with my best shot.
I got a vintage fender reverb amp for $400 using my sniping techniques.

Check the usual pricing scheme for those... And mine was recapped
and "blackfaced"to boot.
I've been the victim of sniping myself. It can happen to anyone. I bid
on
some real estate in Arkansas a couple of weeks ago, and some other
sniper bit me in the heiney. But I keep a stiff upper lip through it
all,
and call it another day, another $2.41.. As far as your antenna, I
don't
have a clue. We had a quiver in the force recently, and I've forgotten
everything about antennas. I'm thinking about taking up barefoot water
skiing or something like that to fill my time.
MK

art wrote:
Now that clarity is
established hopefully the debate will remain professional without
sniping
Best regards
Art

Sniping is fun when done under the clinical supervision of a doktor.
They even have sniping services on the web now that will do the
sniping for you. But I've been a fairly successful sniper just using
the old fashioned manual method of waiting until about 3 seconds
before the auction ends, and firing away with my best shot.
I got a vintage fender super reverb amp for $400 using my sniping
techniques.
Check the usual pricing scheme for those... And mine was recapped
and "blackfaced"to boot.
I've been the victim of sniping myself. It can happen to anyone. I bid
on
some real estate in Arkansas a couple of weeks ago, and some other
sniper bit me in the heiney. But I keep a stiff upper lip through it
all,
and call it another day, another $2.41.. As far as your antenna, I
don't
have a clue. We had a quiver in the force recently, and I've forgotten
everything about antennas. I'm thinking about taking up barefoot water
skiing or something like that to fill my time.
MK

On 20 Oct 2006 20:21:51 -0700, wrote:

Sniping is fun when done under the clinical supervision of a doktor.

Stûpp azide Nurze. Ve must examine one particular symptom:

"art" wrote in message
Sooooooooooooo............................

Interesting rhythmic -um- device which seems to counterpoint the
surrealism of the underlying metaphor... of the designer's
compassionate soul which strives through... through... the medium of
the Æther's structure to sublimate this transaction and come to terms
with the fundamental dichotomy of the antenna. One is left with the
profound and vivid insight into... into... whatever it was about!

[This allusion is lifted from one of the greatest of English works of
Radio/TV/Literature/Computer Game/Movies: "H²G²." Others may
recognize Arthur Dent's appreciation for Vogon poetry which most of
Art's (not Dent) postings so amazingly mimic.]

Ummm, the OP is a sly fox....
First of all when you take the two "dipole circles" and fold it around
what you have is a feed line - instantaneous currents are 180 degrees
phase relation at any point - and no radiation...
Plus you have an open circuit at the far end which means - Reflections,
eh!

Taaa ... denny / k8do

Interesting rhythmic -um- device which seems to counterpoint the
surrealism of the underlying metaphor... of the designer's
compassionate soul which strives through... through... the medium of
the Æther's structure to sublimate this transaction and come to terms
with the fundamental dichotomy of the antenna. One is left with the
profound and vivid insight into... into... whatever it was about!

[This allusion is lifted from one of the greatest of English works of
Radio/TV/Literature/Computer Game/Movies: "H²G²." Others may
recognize Arthur Dent's appreciation for Vogon poetry which most of
Art's (not Dent) postings so amazingly mimic.]

Glad you added that last paragraph...thought I was reading a psychotic
break in real time.

Richard Clark wrote:

On 20 Oct 2006 20:21:51 -0700, wrote:


Sniping is fun when done under the clinical supervision of a doktor.


Stûpp azide Nurze. Ve must examine one particular symptom:


"art" wrote in message

Sooooooooooooo............................


Interesting rhythmic -um- device which seems to counterpoint the
surrealism of the underlying metaphor... of the designer's
compassionate soul which strives through... through... the medium of
the Æther's structure to sublimate this transaction and come to terms
with the fundamental dichotomy of the antenna. One is left with the
profound and vivid insight into... into... whatever it was about!

[This allusion is lifted from one of the greatest of English works of
Radio/TV/Literature/Computer Game/Movies: "H²G²." Others may
recognize Arthur Dent's appreciation for Vogon poetry which most of
Art's (not Dent) postings so amazingly mimic.]

You missed LP records. Which are, like everything else he did, just a
bit different than the versions on the other media.

They are supposedly making the radio plays again, and Adams will be
doing one of the characters. I do not remember which one. Apparently
he recorded the tracks years ago.

Now back to our previously interrupted thread.

tom
K0TAR