Cecil Moore wrote:
John Smith wrote:
I suspect you of being a rather "Doppler Fellow!"

Consider that the mere expansion of empty space itself
would cause a red shift possibly unrelated to the
Doppler effect.

The passage of time will make that known beyond doubt, the universe
expands at an ever increasing (yet, rather slow increase) rate... (Or,
what color red do you like?)

What would you see as the affect causing the red shift effect?

Regards,
JS

John Smith wrote:
... only
thing keeping me up is a long tether tossed me from NASA and it might
have broken!

Nope, the tether is expanding right along with space. :-)
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

John Smith wrote:
What would you see as the affect causing the red shift effect?

We are immersed in relativistic effects and cannot
measure or see the forest for the trees. If our
velocity is less today than it was in the past, then
seconds are shorter today than in the past. If we
measure a frequency with a second that is shorter
than seconds were when the frequency was generated,
the frequency measurement is red-shifted. If we
measure the age of the universe with shortened
seconds, we come up with a value that is too large.

What if the very first second after the Big Bang was
one billion years long measured in present day seconds?
Hyperinflation would not be needed. And there would
be a drift between carbon-14 years and Bristle Cone
pine rings.

This thought occurred to me some 40+ years ago when
I made a frequency measurement and the time base
selection knob on my o'scope was loose and pointing
to the wrong time scale. I measured 30 Hz for the
power line frequency.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Cecil Moore wrote:
John Smith wrote:
What would you see as the affect causing the red shift effect?

We are immersed in relativistic effects and cannot
measure or see the forest for the trees. If our
velocity is less today than it was in the past, then
seconds are shorter today than in the past. If we
measure a frequency with a second that is shorter
than seconds were when the frequency was generated,
the frequency measurement is red-shifted. If we
measure the age of the universe with shortened
seconds, we come up with a value that is too large.

What if the very first second after the Big Bang was
one billion years long measured in present day seconds?
Hyperinflation would not be needed. And there would
be a drift between carbon-14 years and Bristle Cone
pine rings.

This thought occurred to me some 40+ years ago when
I made a frequency measurement and the time base
selection knob on my o'scope was loose and pointing
to the wrong time scale. I measured 30 Hz for the
power line frequency.

Cecil:

So, you are committed to the universe WITHOUT a universal frame
reference, and therefore the (implied?) Einsteinian Model; but, the
Tesla Model remains, yet, to be proven false.

Personally, I favor the Tesla Model (or a near work-a-like); a gut
feeling (some "evidence", no real [depends on "real" here] proof) of
mine implies it much more favorable towards a condition of holding free
energy in an unknown/yet-to-be-measured form and being able to affect
the imbalance effect capable of producing/containing some form of
kinetic energy on a "self-generating" and subatomic scale of, virtually,
boundless proportions (or, what good is an imbalance if you can't
measure it?) Something akin(?) to that expanding universe and the
"pressure(s)" holding everything apart and having the ability to
overwhelm/overcome gravity itself (I mean, if you are going to dream,
dream BIG!)

Now, I must disclose a secret (well, alright, it is obvious really), I
am a conspiracy nut when it comes to the suspicion that the powers which
be would move to suppress knowledge of freely available energy and how
to manipulate such an energy source which exists in an manner and form
which is "easy" to access and to use in abundant and
diabolically-dangerously large quantities of (Or, where is
Fleischmann-Pons? Have I lost my tether--why won't you tell me--or at
least attempt to toss it again? Is that universe fading from view due
to my failing sight? Etc.) Really, I think they would hide such
knowledge--I would!

Just imagine middle-east terrorists with the ability to toss out a
string and annihilate the world (or just Israel!) Could we already
consider it done?

Regards,
JS

What holds empty space together? Does the ether
cluster in gobs? Just wondering. :-)

Irv VE6BP

Cecil Moore wrote:

John Smith wrote:
I suspect you of being a rather "Doppler Fellow!"

Consider that the mere expansion of empty space itself
would cause a red shift possibly unrelated to the
Doppler effect.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

--
--------------------------------------
Visit my HomePage at http://members.shaw.ca/finkirv/index.html
Visit my Baby Sofia website at http://members.shaw.ca/finkirv4/index.htm
Visit my OLDTIMERS website at http://members.shaw.ca/finkirv5/index.htm
--------------------
Irv Finkleman,
Grampa/Ex-Navy/Old Fart/Ham Radio VE6BP
Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Irv Finkleman wrote:
What holds empty space together? Does the ether
cluster in gobs? Just wondering. :-)

Irv VE6BP

Cecil Moore wrote:
John Smith wrote:
I suspect you of being a rather "Doppler Fellow!"
Consider that the mere expansion of empty space itself
would cause a red shift possibly unrelated to the
Doppler effect.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com


Irv:

Your question is an excellent one and your point well taken. And, that
simple question strikes right to the crux of the matter, doesn't it.
So, what is your best guess? grin

Warmest regards,
JS

John Smith wrote:
Irv Finkleman wrote:
What holds empty space together? Does the ether
cluster in gobs? Just wondering. :-)

Irv VE6BP

Cecil Moore wrote:
John Smith wrote:
I suspect you of being a rather "Doppler Fellow!"
Consider that the mere expansion of empty space itself
would cause a red shift possibly unrelated to the
Doppler effect.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com


Irv:

Your question is an excellent one and your point well taken. And, that
simple question strikes right to the crux of the matter, doesn't it. So,
what is your best guess? grin

Warmest regards,
JS

Irv:

My first response was only meant to be provocative.

I hear your question as a baffling inquiry composed of the following:

a) What kind of table does space lie upon.
b) What kind of "void" does space, itself, hang suspended in? (floating in?)
c) Does the "state of the ALL" exist as a solution, or an emulsion, a
gas, a solid, etc?
d) Is the ether composed of the smallest particles possible, or are
their smaller particles which the ether is composed of?
e) Is "our matter" which "our world/universe" is composed of the largest
particles possible or, are there much larger particles in existence and
our universe only a particle of this larger matter and would that larger
matter be the largest possible?
f) Etc.

To even propose an answer, I would truly believe in, to what you ask is
impossible for me, at least for me to do so in any real way... I seek
answers and have only questions and possible ideas on how to find
answers with.

I often look in others ideas, can you blame me?

Regards,
JS

Cecil Moore wrote:
John Smith wrote:
... only thing keeping me up is a long tether tossed me from NASA and
it might have broken!

Nope, the tether is expanding right along with space. :-)

Cecil:

Surely you jest?

You really want to propose that my yardstick grows longer (has no
relation to human body parts, I am sure! Hmm, could this be possibly be
desirable?) while my seconds grow shorter?

Hmm, come to think of it, I could measure much larger things in much
shorter time spans, could be quite handy, really!

Regards,
JS

Cecil Moore wrote:

John Smith wrote:

This page contains instructions on how to construct a cheap and simple
device to detect the ether.


Consider that the galactic red shift might be caused
by the expansion of the ether and not by movement of
the galaxies.

Oh Cecil. You disappoint me. I really thought you were smarter than this.

tom
K0TAR

Cecil Moore wrote:
John Smith wrote:

What would you see as the affect causing the red shift effect?


We are immersed in relativistic effects and cannot
measure or see the forest for the trees.

I'm holding out for Phlogiston theory to come back....;^)

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -