Michael Coslo wrote:


I work both Microsoft, OSX, and am learning Linux.

Not that it was asked for, but my experience has been that MS OS is
great if you have paid support staff to make it run, Linux is nice, but
every once in a while, it kicks us back to 1985, (sorry - unforgivable
in 2006) and when I absolutely have to get it done with a minimum of..

How so? Interested in your perspective on the 1985ish Linux issues.

And I have found that it takes less paid staff to support a number of
linux servers than the same number of 2K or 2K3 servers. Clicking is
much tougher to automate than simply writing scripts and adding them to
crontab.

tom
K0TAR

Tom Ring wrote in
:

Michael Coslo wrote:


I work both Microsoft, OSX, and am learning Linux.

Not that it was asked for, but my experience has been that MS OS
is
great if you have paid support staff to make it run, Linux is nice,
but every once in a while, it kicks us back to 1985, (sorry -
unforgivable in 2006) and when I absolutely have to get it done with
a minimum of..

How so? Interested in your perspective on the 1985ish Linux issues.


My perspective is that of an OS that occasionally makes me work as if it
was 1985. More on that below.



And I have found that it takes less paid staff to support a number of
linux servers than the same number of 2K or 2K3 servers. Clicking is
much tougher to automate than simply writing scripts and adding them
to crontab.

Ahh, the perspective issue! Agreed that getting to the command line
is a more efficient method, even on an Xserve. But I have to deal
with situations where I have to get a piece of hardware, anstall and
use it and any software needed, and meet a deadline.A real short
one. With the PC, we usually find that we have hardware limitations
(always cured by spending a few K), with Linux, we can spend a lot
of time looking for drivers, installing a program is always
exciting, and usually the deadline has come and gone in either case.

I use the Mac because I work with a computer, not get a computer to
work. I'll gladly concede that the other platforms/OS's are much
superior - certainly they must be, because they require a support
staff that knows many interesting and arcane things, and I just plug
away, meeting deadlines.

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

Mike:

There was a time when linux expected all hardware to know its job and
have the internal software (firmware instructions actually) to do its
job and leave the OS free to use its processor cycles much more
efficiently. Linux ran like a race car back then, and the command line
as opposed to the processor cycle glutton of the GUI aided this
tremendously (or, I don't need all those cutsie windows, icons, themes
and sounds!)

Windows tries to encompass and contain all the software necessary to do
all things (mostly as dll's, ocx code, etc.) No better example of this
exists, which I can think of, than the "software modem" as opposed to
the hardware modem. The OS must handle all data
compaction/encryption/de-encryption/de-compaction/"error
checking"/sending/receiving/etc. and slows other processes down to
accomplish this (or, why is my word processor dragging when the modem is
on?), for the software modem. The hardware modem just does it all and
hands data to the OS, or takes data from it for processing and sending.
The 56K USRobotics Courier External modem was the prime example of such
a hardware modem and contained its own processor and it was identical (I
think) to the processor used in the first IBM computers (second
generation actually, first generation used the 8086;s)--intel 80186's?
This was one powerful modem! It's speed unmatched by any of the day...

Now, both linux and windows are growing towards a common ground where
both OS's will contain all this software and become bogged down handling
all the processes for all the hardware--not good in my opinion. But, it
gives us cheap computers (the hardware is just basically ports and
mechanics.)

Put simply, a hardware techs' job is to speed up computers operations by
magnitudes. A software tech's job is to slow down the computers
operation by magnitudes. You see this before your eyes, each year
computer hardware is 10x faster, each year the OS is 10x slower, which
results in very little if any net gain in "actual user speed", best seen
when waiting for the OS to boot up!

My next favorite gripe is the retail takeover of the internet. I don't
come here to buy things. Why not create a .ret (dot ret) in addition to
..com, .net, .org? Then banish all sales to .ret addresses so my google
searches don't return tons of useless chinese junk for purchase. If I
ever want to buy online I will know to search for .ret sites! Oh well.

JS

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
6...
Tom Ring wrote in
:

Michael Coslo wrote:


I work both Microsoft, OSX, and am learning Linux.

Not that it was asked for, but my experience has been that MS
OS
is
great if you have paid support staff to make it run, Linux is nice,
but every once in a while, it kicks us back to 1985, (sorry -
unforgivable in 2006) and when I absolutely have to get it done
with
a minimum of..

How so? Interested in your perspective on the 1985ish Linux issues.


My perspective is that of an OS that occasionally makes me work as if
it
was 1985. More on that below.



And I have found that it takes less paid staff to support a number
of
linux servers than the same number of 2K or 2K3 servers. Clicking
is
much tougher to automate than simply writing scripts and adding them
to crontab.

Ahh, the perspective issue! Agreed that getting to the command
line
is a more efficient method, even on an Xserve. But I have to deal
with situations where I have to get a piece of hardware, anstall
and
use it and any software needed, and meet a deadline.A real short
one. With the PC, we usually find that we have hardware
limitations
(always cured by spending a few K), with Linux, we can spend a lot
of time looking for drivers, installing a program is always
exciting, and usually the deadline has come and gone in either
case.

I use the Mac because I work with a computer, not get a computer
to
work. I'll gladly concede that the other platforms/OS's are much
superior - certainly they must be, because they require a support
staff that knows many interesting and arcane things, and I just
plug
away, meeting deadlines.

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

This is not a forum for operating systems... Let us get back on
topic, folks...

denny

John Smith wrote:
Mike:

There was a time when linux expected all hardware to know its job and
have the internal software (firmware instructions actually) to do its
job and leave the OS free to use its processor cycles much more
efficiently. Linux ran like a race car back then, and the command line
as opposed to the processor cycle glutton of the GUI aided this
tremendously (or, I don't need all those cutsie windows, icons, themes
and sounds!)

Windows tries to encompass and contain all the software necessary to do
all things (mostly as dll's, ocx code, etc.) No better example of this
exists, which I can think of, than the "software modem" as opposed to
the hardware modem. The OS must handle all data
compaction/encryption/de-encryption/de-compaction/"error
checking"/sending/receiving/etc. and slows other processes down to
accomplish this (or, why is my word processor dragging when the modem is
on?), for the software modem. The hardware modem just does it all and
hands data to the OS, or takes data from it for processing and sending.
The 56K USRobotics Courier External modem was the prime example of such
a hardware modem and contained its own processor and it was identical (I
think) to the processor used in the first IBM computers (second
generation actually, first generation used the 8086;s)--intel 80186's?
This was one powerful modem! It's speed unmatched by any of the day...

Now, both linux and windows are growing towards a common ground where
both OS's will contain all this software and become bogged down handling
all the processes for all the hardware--not good in my opinion. But, it
gives us cheap computers (the hardware is just basically ports and
mechanics.)

Put simply, a hardware techs' job is to speed up computers operations by
magnitudes. A software tech's job is to slow down the computers
operation by magnitudes. You see this before your eyes, each year
computer hardware is 10x faster, each year the OS is 10x slower, which
results in very little if any net gain in "actual user speed", best seen
when waiting for the OS to boot up!

My next favorite gripe is the retail takeover of the internet. I don't
come here to buy things. Why not create a .ret (dot ret) in addition to
.com, .net, .org? Then banish all sales to .ret addresses so my google
searches don't return tons of useless chinese junk for purchase. If I
ever want to buy online I will know to search for .ret sites! Oh well.

JS

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
6...
Tom Ring wrote in
:

Michael Coslo wrote:


I work both Microsoft, OSX, and am learning Linux.

Not that it was asked for, but my experience has been that MS
OS
is
great if you have paid support staff to make it run, Linux is nice,
but every once in a while, it kicks us back to 1985, (sorry -
unforgivable in 2006) and when I absolutely have to get it done
with
a minimum of..

How so? Interested in your perspective on the 1985ish Linux issues.


My perspective is that of an OS that occasionally makes me work as if
it
was 1985. More on that below.



And I have found that it takes less paid staff to support a number
of
linux servers than the same number of 2K or 2K3 servers. Clicking
is
much tougher to automate than simply writing scripts and adding them
to crontab.

Ahh, the perspective issue! Agreed that getting to the command
line
is a more efficient method, even on an Xserve. But I have to deal
with situations where I have to get a piece of hardware, anstall
and
use it and any software needed, and meet a deadline.A real short
one. With the PC, we usually find that we have hardware
limitations
(always cured by spending a few K), with Linux, we can spend a lot
of time looking for drivers, installing a program is always
exciting, and usually the deadline has come and gone in either
case.

I use the Mac because I work with a computer, not get a computer
to
work. I'll gladly concede that the other platforms/OS's are much
superior - certainly they must be, because they require a support
staff that knows many interesting and arcane things, and I just
plug
away, meeting deadlines.

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

Denny wrote:
This is not a forum for operating systems... Let us get back on
topic, folks...

Still, a better topic to read than most of the dreck on here.

I am homebrewing (if that term isn't overkill) a dipole and am using PVC
joints...a T in the middle and straight connectors for the ends. Will
these need to be treated (painted, etc) for UV protection?

Richard, feel free to give this one a pass.
You're a good guy, it's just that your prose borders on word salad
sometimes (hold the pedantic dressing)

John
AB8O

jawod wrote:
I am homebrewing (if that term isn't overkill) a dipole and am using PVC
joints...a T in the middle and straight connectors for the ends. Will
these need to be treated (painted, etc) for UV protection?

My experience: White PVC turns brittle under
TX and AZ UV rays.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

I have unpainted PVC poles up in Michigan and they have held up for
years with just a bit of powdering of the surface... If you are using
the dipole for a year or three leave it bare... If you think it may be
up for decades, spray with a dark color paint to block UV...


denny

GREY PVC

jawod wrote:
Denny wrote:

This is not a forum for operating systems... Let us get back on
topic, folks...


Still, a better topic to read than most of the dreck on here.

I am homebrewing (if that term isn't overkill) a dipole and am using PVC
joints...a T in the middle and straight connectors for the ends. Will
these need to be treated (painted, etc) for UV protection?

Richard, feel free to give this one a pass.
You're a good guy, it's just that your prose borders on word salad
sometimes (hold the pedantic dressing)

John
AB8O

Denny wrote:
This is not a forum for operating systems... Let us get back on
topic, folks...


Hey Denny! Why dontcya go tell the crossposters to shut up too!


Plonk me please!

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

John Smith wrote:
The 56K USRobotics Courier External modem was the prime example of such
a hardware modem and contained its own processor and it was identical (I
think) to the processor used in the first IBM computers (second
generation actually, first generation used the 8086;s)--intel 80186's?

You are probably thinking of the 8088 (8-bit bus) used
in the low-end version of the first IBM PC. But the
"first IBM computers" were not solid-state. :-) Back
in the 50's, the IBM-650 computers used dual triodes
with a magnetic drum as the memory. The logic was
bi-quinary, somewhat like an abacus.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com