John Smith wrote:
Undoubtably, in a power failure, "most all" of the noise, both horiz and
vert, goes away. How to you differentiate between what is the horiz
component and that of the vert component?

I continue to operate on backup power during an AC
power failure. The change in noise level on my
horizontal dipole is not very noticeable. The change
in noise level on my vertical is 2+ S-units. It is
obvious that the 60 Hz power lines furnish the source
of the vertical noise with power. I am still not sure
of the source of the vertical noise but I strongly
suspect the ground wire on the pole in my front yard
that contains a power factor capacitor. If I bring
my portable AM radio close to that ground wire, I
cannot even hear the local AM radio station.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

John Smith wrote:



How better could the actual metal radiator (receiving element) be insulated
from the physical striking of rain drops, other than in the nonconductive
fiberglass casing it already resides in? What am I missing?


It seems to me that static electicity, and
hence noise, can be induced through the fibreglass. I used
to have horrible wind static on a dipole made with insulated wire.
I would suggest that the rain striking the insulated material could
also induce a static charge.

Irv VE6BP
--------------------------------------
Visit my HomePage at http://members.shaw.ca/finkirv/index.html
Visit my Baby Sofia website at http://members.shaw.ca/finkirv4/index.htm
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--------------------
Irv Finkleman,
Grampa/Ex-Navy/Old Fart/Ham Radio VE6BP
Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Cecil:

Yep. EXACTLY, the same problem here.

I constructed a wideband fsm with a fet front end amping up the rf, then
through a full wave rect and feeding two opamps in a lm324 acting as a VERY
high gain dc amp, plug for ferite/"rubber duck"/telescope antennas. This
finds the groundwire on a pole adjacent to my yard is a culprit, when
brought close it pegs the meter and turns on the led (powered by extra
opamps on board the lm324 acting as a comparator and voltage follower) in
the output circuit.

There is also a large, square, distribution xfmr where there are underground
lines, although it appears perfectly shielded, it is yet another culprit on
the opposite side of my property and gives a substantial reading on the same
meter.

Numerous complaints from me has had the power company send out individuals
with an am radio, as you describe, they are quite taken with my "noise
meter" when I show it to them, and the audio on their am radio confirms my
meters reading--however, the noise is still there ...

I am happy they like my meter! straight face

Warmest regards,
JS

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
. ..
John Smith wrote:
Undoubtably, in a power failure, "most all" of the noise, both horiz and
vert, goes away. How to you differentiate between what is the horiz
component and that of the vert component?

I continue to operate on backup power during an AC
power failure. The change in noise level on my
horizontal dipole is not very noticeable. The change
in noise level on my vertical is 2+ S-units. It is
obvious that the 60 Hz power lines furnish the source
of the vertical noise with power. I am still not sure
of the source of the vertical noise but I strongly
suspect the ground wire on the pole in my front yard
that contains a power factor capacitor. If I bring
my portable AM radio close to that ground wire, I
cannot even hear the local AM radio station.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Cecil Moore wrote:
art wrote:
Cecil if a static charge has a time varying field applied by gravity
would it have radiatiatonal
properties and if so would it not be vertically polarised?
Can't be true as it is not printed in a book !

Whoa there, Art. There seems to be confusion between
two topics. As far as I know, there is no obvious
difference between the precipitation static levels
on a horizontal Vs vertical antenna.

Cecil
I am just putting up something for thought

Apparently stacked antennas of the horizontal style can avoid a lot of
static noise
if they disconect the upper array. Could this possibly mean that the
horizontal array will not pick up a vertically phased noise in the near
region. I know nothing in this area but just offering something that
could be discussed.



That this
particular antenna is vertical is mostly irrelevant
to the alleged precipitation static problem. It could
just as easily be happening with a horizontal antenna.

The fact that the noise might be attributed to something
other than precipitation static might involve vertical
polarization but I don't think precipitation static has
much to do with polarization. A wind-driven charged
particle is just as likely to encounter a vertical wire
as a horizontal wire.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Cecil:

Netnews? News server? Newgroups?

This ain't google chat? Huh? grin

Regards,
JS

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
. ..
John Smith wrote:
How better could the actual metal radiator (receiving element) be
insulated from the physical striking of rain drops, other than in the
nonconductive fiberglass casing it already resides in? What am I
missing?

Netnews is a challenge. Apparently you have read his
followup posting without reading mine. Just be patient.
My followups will arrive on your server sooner or later.
For instance, if he has uninsulated elevated radials,
the same thing might be happening. Or maybe it's noise
from lightning and not precipitation static at all.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

he OP mentioned that the static comes and goes with approaching and
receeding rain fronts... Likely he has a significant component of
coronal discharge... He may PERHAPS reduce the induced noise a bit
with ball on the top of the vertical, a copper float from the toilet
works well, or even a nice capacity hat... NOw this is a topic that
has been roundly beaten within an inch of it's life on other forums,
but perhasps we are bored enough here to go all through it again
groan

denny / k8do

Correct... Everything is known about antennas in America !

Denny wrote:
he OP mentioned that the static comes and goes with approaching and
receeding rain fronts... Likely he has a significant component of
coronal discharge... He may PERHAPS reduce the induced noise a bit
with ball on the top of the vertical, a copper float from the toilet
works well, or even a nice capacity hat... NOw this is a topic that
has been roundly beaten within an inch of it's life on other forums,
but perhasps we are bored enough here to go all through it again
groan

denny / k8do

This topic tends to be provocative. You have heard/read everyone's
opinions/measurements in the past.

What is interesting in F5VJC's account is that the vertical is surrounded by
what may be a good insulator. Additional information that will be of
interest includes:
1. What is in the vicinity of the antenna? How far from exposed
conductors, house, barn, trees, and such. Are objects within ten
wavelengths higher than the antenna?
2. Are guy wires used to support the antenna?

Some contend that P-noise exists and some contend that it does not exist
associated with fixed antennas. F5VJC might be able to add a data point.

73 Mac N8TT

--
J. Mc Laughlin; Michigan U.S.A.
Home:
"Denny" wrote in message
ups.com...
he OP mentioned that the static comes and goes with approaching and
receeding rain fronts... Likely he has a significant component of
coronal discharge... He may PERHAPS reduce the induced noise a bit
with ball on the top of the vertical, a copper float from the toilet
works well, or even a nice capacity hat... NOw this is a topic that
has been roundly beaten within an inch of it's life on other forums,
but perhasps we are bored enough here to go all through it again
groan

denny / k8do

John, at 60 Hz a horizontal wire carrying current has a very strong magnetic
field. The 'right hand rule' indicates the magnetic field, a near field effect,
is vertically polarized.

My 60 meter horizontal is quiet. My 60 meter vertical, about 30 feet from the
horizontal, has a good S4 noise level on the same radio at the same time.

John Smith wrote:
Dave wrote:

...

Most all verticals have higher noise levels than horizontal antennas.
Reason, as it is reported, is that man made noise is vertically
polarized.


Dave:

Frankly, I think that the statement, "most man made noise is vertical
polarized" is a myth. How many power lines do you see running
vertically? How many extension cords do you see running vertically? How
many phone lines do you see running vertically? Etc, etc.

I think this needs looked at in a new light. Now most 160m antennas are
easier to construct for horizontal operation--perhaps this is where the
myth got started?

Regards,
JS

Denny wrote:
he OP mentioned that the static comes and goes with approaching and
receeding rain fronts... Likely he has a significant component of
coronal discharge... He may PERHAPS reduce the induced noise a bit
with ball on the top of the vertical, a copper float from the toilet
works well, or even a nice capacity hat... NOw this is a topic that
has been roundly beaten within an inch of it's life on other forums,
but perhasps we are bored enough here to go all through it again
groan

The heated part of the discussion was because of
the assertion that precipitation static does not
exist. One only need do a web search for "precipitation
static" to see that it is an accepted, well known, well
defined physical phenomenon.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com