I have recently been plagued by rain static on a new vertical antenna,
this a 42 foot vertical fed at the base through an SG230 auto tuner,
and used on all bands. It seems I need a static bleed of some sort, a
choke or resistor. What is the best component to use in an outdoor
environment?
I thought the auto ATU would in itself provide a static bleed path,
but apparently not.

Any thoughts, how have you solved this?

73, Deni

F5VJC

Deni F5VJC wrote:

I have recently been plagued by rain static on a new vertical antenna,
this a 42 foot vertical fed at the base through an SG230 auto tuner,
and used on all bands. It seems I need a static bleed of some sort, a
choke or resistor. What is the best component to use in an outdoor
environment?
I thought the auto ATU would in itself provide a static bleed path,
but apparently not.

Any thoughts, how have you solved this?

73, Deni

F5VJC

Are you sure it's rain static?

Most all verticals have higher noise levels than horizontal antennas. Reason, as
it is reported, is that man made noise is vertically polarized.

Dave wrote:
...

Most all verticals have higher noise levels than horizontal antennas.
Reason, as it is reported, is that man made noise is vertically polarized.


Dave:

Frankly, I think that the statement, "most man made noise is vertical
polarized" is a myth. How many power lines do you see running
vertically? How many extension cords do you see running vertically?
How many phone lines do you see running vertically? Etc, etc.

I think this needs looked at in a new light. Now most 160m antennas are
easier to construct for horizontal operation--perhaps this is where the
myth got started?

Regards,
JS

John Smith wrote:
How many power lines do you see running vertically?

How many ground wires do you see running vertically
from power pole capacitors and transformers? :-)
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Cecil Moore wrote:
John Smith wrote:
How many power lines do you see running vertically?

How many ground wires do you see running vertically
from power pole capacitors and transformers? :-)

Cecil:

True. But, given the hundred-of-thousands/millions? of miles in
conductors, carrying noise generating power in a horizontal plane, those
ground wires must only amount to a small percentage of the whole ...

Regards,
JS

John Smith wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote:
How many ground wires do you see running vertically
from power pole capacitors and transformers? :-)

True. But, given the hundred-of-thousands/millions? of miles in
conductors, carrying noise generating power in a horizontal plane, those
ground wires must only amount to a small percentage of the whole ...

A small percentage of the length of wires - a very large
percentage of the vertically polarized noise. Probably two
S-units of noise at my QTH that goes away during a power
failure.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 07:27:39 -0800, John Smith
wrote:

Dave wrote:
...

Most all verticals have higher noise levels than horizontal antennas.
Reason, as it is reported, is that man made noise is vertically polarized.


Dave:

Frankly, I think that the statement, "most man made noise is vertical
polarized" is a myth. How many power lines do you see running

Perhaps the explanation for the observation that the vertically
polarised component of man made noise is greater at a receiver antenna
than the horizontal component lies in the propagation mechanism.

Most man made noise is received from nearby and by ground wave, and
vertically polarised ground waves are attenuated less than
horizontally polarised waves over the same path.

This explanation is supported by the observation that the closer one
is to a high intensity man made noise source (but still within
radiating far field), the less variation in field strength with
antenna polarisation.

Owen
--

Number of things are getting confused and lumped.
There are different types of "Rain Static" and "noise"

1. One that W5DXP experienced in dry winds of Arizona, is charging of metal
parts by air mass movement and generated charge by it. Either in immediate
vicinity of the antennas or higher up. Insulated wires, loops and balanced
antennas and feeders help here.

2. High altitude static buildup during the storms. Is due to buildup of
static in higher altitudes, accompanied by lightning discharges. Here the
umbrella effect of having higher structure with "capacitance hat" like Yagi
helps to drain the charge from the vicinity and static free reception from
lower antennas is possible. Stacked beams are example, where lower antenna
is dead quiet while top one gets S9+20 frying noise. Insulation or no
insulation immaterial here.

3. Discharge from the rain droplets on the antenna elements is like #2.
Insulated elements help here to a point.

Power line noise. If the source is a bad connection in power lines system
(point source) that noise is "everything polarized". Depends how the antenna
and structures around it participate in the radiation from it. Argument that
it is vertically polarized has more to do with RX antennas and their pattern
rather than "pure" polarization. Verticals have major lobe at the horizon
and they "see" everything near by. Horizontals at typical height have major
lobe at some higher angle, mostly "looking" up and have a null at the
horizon, "ignoring" nearby sources of noise. Then there is the propagation
mode effect contributing to the noise propagation and affect on receiving
systems.

Regardless of W8JI claims that small loop antennas don't have electrostatic
shield - effect, they can be of great help in discriminating against the
near by noise sources by using electrostatic shields. And yes Virginia, in
the close proximity there is a separation of E and H fields.

One has to be careful and properly identify the type of noise, ways of
propagating and means of suppressing it. The best way is to do it at the
antennas. For example I had horrible noise situation from HV power lines.
The most effective way was to null it out by mutual positioning of the main
antenna (Razors) and 3 el. Yagi between them. I could suppress, null out
noise of 30dB over S9 down to almost nothing. Then the noise blankers and
filtering are put to work.

73 Yuri, K3BU


"Owen Duffy" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 07:27:39 -0800, John Smith
wrote:

Dave wrote:
...

Most all verticals have higher noise levels than horizontal antennas.
Reason, as it is reported, is that man made noise is vertically
polarized.


Dave:

Frankly, I think that the statement, "most man made noise is vertical
polarized" is a myth. How many power lines do you see running

Perhaps the explanation for the observation that the vertically
polarised component of man made noise is greater at a receiver antenna
than the horizontal component lies in the propagation mechanism.

Most man made noise is received from nearby and by ground wave, and
vertically polarised ground waves are attenuated less than
horizontally polarised waves over the same path.

This explanation is supported by the observation that the closer one
is to a high intensity man made noise source (but still within
radiating far field), the less variation in field strength with
antenna polarisation.

Owen
--

Yuri Blanarovich wrote:
1. One that W5DXP experienced in dry winds of Arizona, is charging of metal
parts by air mass movement and generated charge by it.

Incidentally, there was a special on the Discovery
Channel about man colonizing the other planets.
They said one of the main dangers to life on Mars
was the charged iron oxide particles during a
Martian dust storm.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

John, at 60 Hz a horizontal wire carrying current has a very strong magnetic
field. The 'right hand rule' indicates the magnetic field, a near field effect,
is vertically polarized.

My 60 meter horizontal is quiet. My 60 meter vertical, about 30 feet from the
horizontal, has a good S4 noise level on the same radio at the same time.

John Smith wrote:
Dave wrote:

...

Most all verticals have higher noise levels than horizontal antennas.
Reason, as it is reported, is that man made noise is vertically
polarized.


Dave:

Frankly, I think that the statement, "most man made noise is vertical
polarized" is a myth. How many power lines do you see running
vertically? How many extension cords do you see running vertically? How
many phone lines do you see running vertically? Etc, etc.

I think this needs looked at in a new light. Now most 160m antennas are
easier to construct for horizontal operation--perhaps this is where the
myth got started?

Regards,
JS