Reg Edwards wrote:

Take a close-wound wire helix of diameter D metres and having N = 500 turns
per meter. Wire diameter approx 2mm.

All formulae available from Terman, Kraus, ARRL, etc., etc.

C = 55.5 / (Ln( 2 * H / D ) - 1) picofarads per meter.

L = Square( N * Pi * D ) / 10 microhenrys per meter.

TransLine impedance, Zo = Sqrt( L / C ) ohms.

Propagation Velocity = 1 / Sqrt( L * C ) metres per second.

Take a length of H =1.5 metres of this helix and use it as a short vertical
antenna above a good ground.

It will resonate as a 1/4-wave vertical at 3.5 MHz.

Zo = 3243 ohms.

Velocity factor = 0.0701

Radiation Resistance = 0.176 ohms.

etc., etc.,

It's so simple you can't believe it. ;o)

Thanks Reg, this one is a keeper. If you made the helix long enough to
cause a phase reversal in the current, would the world come to an end?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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--
.................................................. ..........
Regards from Reg, G4FGQ
For Free Radio Design Software go to
http://www.btinternet.com/~g4fgq.regp
.................................................. ..........
"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
Reg Edwards wrote:

Take a close-wound wire helix of diameter D metres and having N = 500
turns
per meter. Wire diameter approx 2mm.

All formulae available from Terman, Kraus, ARRL, etc., etc.

C = 55.5 / (Ln( 2 * H / D ) - 1) picofarads per meter.

L = Square( N * Pi * D ) / 10 microhenrys per meter.

TransLine impedance, Zo = Sqrt( L / C ) ohms.

Propagation Velocity = 1 / Sqrt( L * C ) metres per second.

Take a length of H =1.5 metres of this helix and use it as a short
vertical
antenna above a good ground.

It will resonate as a 1/4-wave vertical at 3.5 MHz.

Zo = 3243 ohms.

Velocity factor = 0.0701

Radiation Resistance = 0.176 ohms.

etc., etc.,

It's so simple you can't believe it. ;o)

Thanks Reg, this one is a keeper. If you made the helix long enough to
cause a phase reversal in the current, would the world come to an end?
--
73, Cecil

========================

I forgot to say it will also have a 'cosine' current distribution between
base and top.

The antenna 'end effect' can be accounted for if necessary.

When the helix is not close wound, the increase in velocity factor and the
reduction in Zo can be accounted for.

Axial mode radiation cannot be distinguished from normal mode but this is of
negligible consequence until helix circumference approaches 1/4 wavelength
which it never does in the present context.
----
Reg.

Cecil wrote,

Thanks Reg, this one is a keeper. If you made the helix long enough to
cause a phase reversal in the current, would the world come to an end?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


It also doesn't mean anything. Those formulas for C and L are just
good hand-waving approximations and nothing else. Nice try, though.
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH

Tdonaly wrote:

Cecil wrote,
Thanks Reg, this one is a keeper. If you made the helix long enough to
cause a phase reversal in the current, would the world come to an end?

It also doesn't mean anything.

Tom, please build a two wavelength long helical antenna, measure the
current at various places, and then come back and tell us, with a
straight face, that the current phase never goes from positive to
negative.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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Cecil wrote,

Tdonaly wrote:

Cecil wrote,
Thanks Reg, this one is a keeper. If you made the helix long enough to
cause a phase reversal in the current, would the world come to an end?

It also doesn't mean anything.

Tom, please build a two wavelength long helical antenna, measure the
current at various places, and then come back and tell us, with a
straight face, that the current phase never goes from positive to
negative.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


It won't work, Cecil. I quit arguing when you quit understanding.
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH

Tdonaly wrote:
It won't work, Cecil. I quit arguing when you quit understanding.

And you would rather leave me ignorant than contribute anything
to my understanding. I certainly understand that. I have an
engineering degree and my IQ, according to MENSA, is in the
upper 1/2 of one percent. That you cannot post anything that
I can understand seems to be your problem, not mine. But don't
feel alone. My Southern Baptist Preacher has the identical
problem. His religion interferes with my understanding. Your
math model religion interferes with my understanding in exactly
the same way. Hint: If your math model doesn't predict reality,
it ain't worth much. The original assertion was that the current
into a coil is identical to the current out of a coil. Never mind
that the current has to travel faster than the speed of light to
make that true. Every measurement has proven that there is a
current taper through the coil. Yet, you maintain the original
assertion. There's something seriously wrong with a mind that
maintains concepts that have been proven wrong by measurements.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:01:58 -0600, Cecil Moore
wrote:

And you would rather leave me ignorant than contribute anything
to my understanding.

This reminds me of a time when I challenged our Chief Bosun's mate
with: "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."

The Chief always had the last word with logic like yours:
"You hold his head under water and suck on his ass."

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Richard Clark wrote:

wrote:
And you would rather leave me ignorant than contribute anything
to my understanding.

This reminds me of a time when I challenged our Chief Bosun's mate
with: "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."

Richard, is one iota of scientific proof too much to ask or should
I accept it on faith like you? When I want hand-waving, I go to church.
I expect more than math-model-based religion out of this newsgroup.
Maybe I expect too much. You guys remind me of the people in one
of the Planet of the Apes movies who worshiped Tha Bomb.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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Richard:

[snip]
This reminds me of a time when I challenged our Chief Bosun's mate
with: "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."

The Chief always had the last word with logic like yours:
"You hold his head under water and suck on his ass."

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC
[snip]

Heh, heh... memorable. I love it... but....

Are you sure he didn't also use the "f" word?

It's my recollection that Chief Bosun's Mates do focus on the ass a lot...
but not without a few well chosen "f" word interjections.

Too many years ago to remember, I had the con on a tin can along
side a carrier at sea readying to pass a sick matloes over a bosun's chair.
I was holding the con "real steady" in heavy seas +/- 1/2 degree or so,
grinning to myself from ear to ear at how well I was doing, the Chief
Bosun's
Mate ruined my pride and reverie when he hollered down the blow tube,
"Sailor
if you don't keep this fuxxxxg tin can on fuxxxxg course I'll come down this
fuxxxxg ladder and stuff that fuxxxxg wheel up your 'ass' spoke by fuxxxxg
spoke."

Now that's Chief Bosun's Mate talk! :-)

--
Peter K1PO
Indialantic By-the-Sea, FL

Cecil wrote,

Tdonaly wrote:
It won't work, Cecil. I quit arguing when you quit understanding.

And you would rather leave me ignorant than contribute anything
to my understanding. I certainly understand that. I have an
engineering degree and my IQ, according to MENSA, is in the
upper 1/2 of one percent. That you cannot post anything that
I can understand seems to be your problem, not mine. But don't
feel alone. My Southern Baptist Preacher has the identical
problem. His religion interferes with my understanding. Your
math model religion interferes with my understanding in exactly
the same way. Hint: If your math model doesn't predict reality,
it ain't worth much. The original assertion was that the current
into a coil is identical to the current out of a coil. Never mind
that the current has to travel faster than the speed of light to
make that true. Every measurement has proven that there is a
current taper through the coil. Yet, you maintain the original
assertion. There's something seriously wrong with a mind that
maintains concepts that have been proven wrong by measurements.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Boy, you sure have accused me of a lot of things I never knew I
did. I don't maintain any of that stuff. I don't even care. Furthermore,
I don't have any better idea than you do what the current distribution in
any individual coil is. I suppose it depends on its environment and its
physical description, but beyond that it means nothing to me. What I
was railing at you about was something entirely different: I simply don't
believe your theories explain what you say they do, and unless you
can give better evidence than you have, I don't see why anyone else
should believe them either. Period. That's it. The end. Kaput. Finis.
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH
(P.S. You euchred me into responding this time but it won't happen again.)