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#1
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art wrote:
Look at Edisons' invention, the light bulb. It makes a much better heater than a light source (only a few percent of the energy consumed is given off as usable light!) Besides, perhaps next they will find out that the rf power can be reduced a hundrend-fold if the proper catalyst is used. Perhaps attacking the hydrogen/oxygen bond on multi-levels will finally be found to be feasible ... I have never seen in any book ANY speculation that rf could break hydrogen/oxygen bonds--only that microwaves could boil water! That in itself seems a major break through that the brain dead have glossed over in their claim of "it won't work!" Besides all that, it appears to me that the bond is being broken well below the boiling point of the salt water--seems like sodium chloride is already working as some sort of catalyst--let's all hope a magnitudes better catalyst is found! JS |
#2
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![]() "John Smith I" wrote in message ... art wrote: Look at Edisons' invention, the light bulb. It makes a much better heater than a light source (only a few percent of the energy consumed is given off as usable light!) Besides, perhaps next they will find out that the rf power can be reduced a hundrend-fold if the proper catalyst is used. Perhaps attacking the hydrogen/oxygen bond on multi-levels will finally be found to be feasible ... I have never seen in any book ANY speculation that rf could break hydrogen/oxygen bonds--only that microwaves could boil water! That in itself seems a major break through that the brain dead have glossed over in their claim of "it won't work!" Besides all that, it appears to me that the bond is being broken well below the boiling point of the salt water--seems like sodium chloride is already working as some sort of catalyst--let's all hope a magnitudes better catalyst is found! JS John Commercial microwave ovens have always worked on the principle of heating water by being tuned to the vibrational frequency of water molecules. It seems obvious that if sufficiently focused, the microwave energy would cause spontaneous decomposition of the water molecules into their constituent oxygen and hydrogen molecules. The addition of sodium chloride, or any salt, to the water can act as a catalyst by causing energy to become more tightly focused or by 'tuning' the molecules to become more susceptable to the microwave frequency(ies) involved. Sugared drinks heat more quickly than plain water in a microwave oven. While this may reduce the energy input requirements, there is no possibility of recovering a greater amount of energy than was input to initiate the reaction. This sounds like another version of the cold fusion debate, albeit not so cold. There is no magic here. A kilowatt of energy focused into an area of less than a tenth of a cubic millimetre will instantaneously disassociate virtually any substance known to science. A commercial fusion reactor is currently being built in France. It will cost billions of dollars to complete, but when it becomes operational there will be a surplus of energy generated. That is our future and the future of energy production. A jar full of salty water will never power the average home or car unless it is surrounding several pounds of Plutonium. :-) Mike G0ULI |
#3
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Mike Kaliski wrote:
A jar full of salty water will never power the average home or car unless it is surrounding several pounds of Plutonium. :-) Can you prove that "never" assertion? :-) -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com |
#4
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Mike Kaliski wrote:
Commercial microwave ovens have always worked on the principle of heating water by being tuned to the vibrational frequency of water molecules. Hmmm. The first resonant peak of the water molecule is around 1THz, while at the microwave operating frequency of 2.45GHz there are no resonances of the water molecule. The 2.45GHz frequency has no particular connection to the resonant frequencies of candidate food molecules. Chuck ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#5
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![]() "Chuck" wrote in message ... Mike Kaliski wrote: Commercial microwave ovens have always worked on the principle of heating water by being tuned to the vibrational frequency of water molecules. Hmmm. The first resonant peak of the water molecule is around 1THz, while at the microwave operating frequency of 2.45GHz there are no resonances of the water molecule. The 2.45GHz frequency has no particular connection to the resonant frequencies of candidate food molecules. Chuck ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Chuck That would be why returns on 3 Cm marine radar are wiped out in heavy rain then. I can vouch for the fact that heavy rain and spray can result in 100% obscuration of ship radar targets. Aircraft also use radar to detect storms. The severity of the weather ahead is determined by analysis of the probable size of the water droplets in the cloud, which affects the level of the radar return. While water molecules may have an inherent resonance at 1 THz, it is generally accepted by the scientific community that microwave ovens work by exciting water molecules, amongst others, in food. I can't recall ever cooking anything in a microwave that wasn't wet or at least damp. Well I have tested some bits of plastic for suitability for use at RF, but that wasn't for eating - and the wife was out!!! I am happy to accept that there is no direct correlation between the resonant frequency of a water molecule at 1 THz and a microwave oven magnetron operating in the Ghz range. However, microwave ovens will heat even distilled water quite effectively and heating is defined as an increase in vibrational energy of molecules. So however the process actually works, some principle of resonance must exist to allow the excitation of the water molecules to occur. Either that, or microwave ovens actually work by heating the food with infra red radiation derived using waste heat from the magnetron and we have all been fooled. :-) Mike G0ULI |
#6
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Mike Kaliski wrote:
That would be why returns on 3 Cm marine radar are wiped out in heavy rain then. I can vouch for the fact that heavy rain and spray can result in 100% obscuration of ship radar targets. Aircraft also use radar to detect storms. The severity of the weather ahead is determined by analysis of the probable size of the water droplets in the cloud, which affects the level of the radar return. While water molecules may have an inherent resonance at 1 THz, it is generally accepted by the scientific community that microwave ovens work by exciting water molecules, amongst others, in food. I can't recall ever cooking anything in a microwave that wasn't wet or at least damp. Well I have tested some bits of plastic for suitability for use at RF, but that wasn't for eating - and the wife was out!!! I am happy to accept that there is no direct correlation between the resonant frequency of a water molecule at 1 THz and a microwave oven magnetron operating in the Ghz range. However, microwave ovens will heat even distilled water quite effectively and heating is defined as an increase in vibrational energy of molecules. So however the process actually works, some principle of resonance must exist to allow the excitation of the water molecules to occur. Either that, or microwave ovens actually work by heating the food with infra red radiation derived using waste heat from the magnetron and we have all been fooled. :-) Increased molecular motion certainly accompanies increased temperature, but depending on the water's salt content, the skin depth of water at microwave oven frequencies is 0.5cm to 4.7cm. So I guess it is an absorption phenomenon, rather than resonance. Or, infrared radiation from the maagnetron! ;-) This information, BTW, comes from Ron Schmitt's "Electromagnetics Explained". Chuck ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#7
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![]() "Chuck" wrote in message ... Mike Kaliski wrote: That would be why returns on 3 Cm marine radar are wiped out in heavy rain then. I can vouch for the fact that heavy rain and spray can result in 100% obscuration of ship radar targets. Aircraft also use radar to detect storms. The severity of the weather ahead is determined by analysis of the probable size of the water droplets in the cloud, which affects the level of the radar return. While water molecules may have an inherent resonance at 1 THz, it is generally accepted by the scientific community that microwave ovens work by exciting water molecules, amongst others, in food. I can't recall ever cooking anything in a microwave that wasn't wet or at least damp. Well I have tested some bits of plastic for suitability for use at RF, but that wasn't for eating - and the wife was out!!! I am happy to accept that there is no direct correlation between the resonant frequency of a water molecule at 1 THz and a microwave oven magnetron operating in the Ghz range. However, microwave ovens will heat even distilled water quite effectively and heating is defined as an increase in vibrational energy of molecules. So however the process actually works, some principle of resonance must exist to allow the excitation of the water molecules to occur. Either that, or microwave ovens actually work by heating the food with infra red radiation derived using waste heat from the magnetron and we have all been fooled. :-) Increased molecular motion certainly accompanies increased temperature, but depending on the water's salt content, the skin depth of water at microwave oven frequencies is 0.5cm to 4.7cm. So I guess it is an absorption phenomenon, rather than resonance. Or, infrared radiation from the maagnetron! ;-) This information, BTW, comes from Ron Schmitt's "Electromagnetics Explained". Chuck ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Chuck When I learned about radar it was common practice to break the waveguide and stick your hand over the transmitter end to see if you could feel any warmth! If your hand got hot, the magnetron was firing up okay. If you were of a nervous disposition, then a neon bulb was a sissy substitute for a hand. The marine radar sets on my first ship were all Korean War vintage with a 10 Cm set with a standard range of 96 miles - well over the horizon. The navigators claimed they could spot mountain tops at over 200 miles. The equipment was all valves and worked for an average of 3 days before each failure. Usually a 2 to 4 hour fault finding job each time. The most spectacular failure occured when the 10 Cm radar continued to work fautlessly through a severe storm before finally packing up when the sun came out. Eventually the waveguide running up the mast to the scanner was found to contain over 30 vertical feet of water! The scanner horn had been holed by a piece of railing torn off the bow in the storm. The metal railing had flown up 60 feet in the air before hitting the scanner horn and holing it. Clearing the water and patching the scanner horn with duct tape restored operation until we docked. I know that the 10 Cm radar appeared not to have any water heating effects because the water that poured out of the waveguide was freezing and the radar had been continuously switched to transmit until shortly before looking for the fault. So there is definitely something significant about the 3 Cm wavelengths used in microwave ovens and interaction with water molecules at that frequency. Mike G0ULI |
#8
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Mike Kaliski wrote:
So there is definitely something significant about the 3 Cm wavelengths used in microwave ovens and interaction with water molecules at that frequency. From Wikipedia: "Cooking food with microwaves was discovered by Percy Spencer while building magnetrons for radar sets at Raytheon. He was working on an active radar set when he noticed a strange sensation, and saw that a peanut candy bar he had in his pocket started to melt. Water, fat, and other substances in the food absorb energy from the microwaves in a process called dielectric heating. Dipole rotation is the mechanism normally referred to as dielectric heating, and is most widely observable in the microwave oven where it operates most efficiently on liquid water, ..." I never realized that rotating my dipole was contributing to global warming. :-) -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com |
#9
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Mike Kaliski wrote:
"Chuck" wrote in message ... Mike Kaliski wrote: Commercial microwave ovens have always worked on the principle of heating water by being tuned to the vibrational frequency of water molecules. Hmmm. The first resonant peak of the water molecule is around 1THz, while at the microwave operating frequency of 2.45GHz there are no resonances of the water molecule. The 2.45GHz frequency has no particular connection to the resonant frequencies of candidate food molecules. Chuck ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Chuck That would be why returns on 3 Cm marine radar are wiped out in heavy rain then. I can vouch for the fact that heavy rain and spray can result in 100% obscuration of ship radar targets. Aircraft also use radar to detect storms. The severity of the weather ahead is determined by analysis of the probable size of the water droplets in the cloud, which affects the level of the radar return. While water molecules may have an inherent resonance at 1 THz, it is generally accepted by the scientific community that microwave ovens work by exciting water molecules, amongst others, in food. I can't recall ever cooking anything in a microwave that wasn't wet or at least damp. Well I have tested some bits of plastic for suitability for use at RF, but that wasn't for eating - and the wife was out!!! I am happy to accept that there is no direct correlation between the resonant frequency of a water molecule at 1 THz and a microwave oven magnetron operating in the Ghz range. However, microwave ovens will heat even distilled water quite effectively and heating is defined as an increase in vibrational energy of molecules. So however the process actually works, some principle of resonance must exist to allow the excitation of the water molecules to occur. Either that, or microwave ovens actually work by heating the food with infra red radiation derived using waste heat from the magnetron and we have all been fooled. :-) Mike G0ULI You can look at the stuff in a microwave as a resistive load. What happens to a resistive load when you feed it RF? Or even DC, but putting in all the little DC probes so the burrito heats evenly is a pain in the butt. -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
#10
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Mike Kaliski wrote:
... It would be interesting to know what freq was being used in the video ... If it were microwave, I wouldn't think that guy would be keeping his vision too much longer. A KW (heck, even a hundred watts or less over time!) turned into the room would be working on his cataracts, BIG TIME! JS |
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FA: "RADIO, A STUDY OF FIRST PRINCIPLES" 1928 E.E.BURNS-NR | Equipment | |||
FA: "RADIO, A STUDY OF FIRST PRINCIPLES" 1928 E.E.BURNS-NR | Equipment | |||
FA: "RADIO, A STUDY OF FIRST PRINCIPLES" 1928 E.E.BURNS-NR | Equipment | |||
FA: "RADIO, A STUDY OF FIRST PRINCIPLES" 1928 E.E.BURNS-NR | Equipment | |||
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