RadioBanter - AM electromagnetic waves: 20 KHz modulation frequency on an astronomically-low carrier frequency

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AM electromagnetic waves: 20 KHz modulation frequency on an astronomically-lowcarrier frequency

Don Bowey wrote:

AM is a process of frequency multiplication. Now you tell me where you
think such multiplication takes place on a phone line, and I'll follow-uo by
telling why you're full of crap.

SIMECS!

It is all right before your eyes, if you can't see it by now, forget it
.... perhaps at a later date. I know your frustration, I have seen the
mentally handicapped attempt to deal with the real world and it end only
in frustration ... perhaps a change of meds is in order ...

JS

AM electromagnetic waves: 20 KHz modulation frequency on anastronomically-low carrier frequency

On 7/1/07 2:57 PM, in article , "John Smith I"
wrote:

Don Bowey wrote:

AM is a process of frequency multiplication. Now you tell me where you
think such multiplication takes place on a phone line, and I'll follow-uo by
telling why you're full of crap.

SIMECS!

It is all right before your eyes, if you can't see it by now, forget it
... perhaps at a later date. I know your frustration, I have seen the
mentally handicapped attempt to deal with the real world and it end only
in frustration ... perhaps a change of meds is in order ...

JS

I see..... You finally admit you don't understand AM at all and can't
justify your statement. It's what I expected.

Now, run off and play in the street with your tinker toys.

"Radium" a COMPLETE IDIOT... - More Likely An In-Complete-Want-To-Be [.]

On Jul 1, 2:28 pm, Don Bowey wrote:
On 7/1/07 2:11 PM, in article
om, "RHF"

wrote:
On Jul 1, 12:50 pm, "Porgy Tirebiter" wrote:
"Radium" wrote in message

groups.com...

On Jul 1, 7:24 am, wrote:
Analog cells phones should stop using FM and should start using AM
between frequencies of 40,000 to 285,000 Hz.

I chose 285 KHz to be the highest radio frequency for cell-phones
because it is roughly the highest-frequency categorized as "long wave"
radio.

- IDIOT!......complete idiot......

PT - Once again why waste your time replying
to his posts ? ? ? {Oops Like I Am Doing Too !}

Actually "Radium" would appear to be an
In-Complete-Want-To-Be driven by the 'urge'
to Post these Forever Ponding Questions
for others to charge at like Don Quijote's
quest to slay Windmills {a fool's errand}
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Quixote
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fool%27s_errand

FWIW - While many of his Post might fit into
the "sci.electronics.basics" NewsGroup; often
they would be consider OFF-TOPIC in other
NewsGroups like : rec.radio.shortwave,
rec.radio.amateur.antenna, alt.cellular.cingular,
alt.internet.wireless, etc

IMHO - In another life "Radium" would have
made a great High School Science Teacher :
Who's Students when on to do great things
with their lives :
Because "Radium" Touched Them With A Thirst
For Knowledge And A Quest For Answers.

- But a teacher MUST be rational.
- You rate Radium with more potential than I can.
- This most recent post is really off the wall.

"Radium" -and- 'Rational' now there is an Oxymoron !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxymoron

-but- These NewsGroups are NOT a High School
Science Class -and- "Radium" is just being 'radium'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radium

-alas- Our "Radium's" Half-Life of Readable Interest
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-life
is at best about 16.04 Seconds ~ RHF
.
.
. .- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

DB remember that I did write :
Actually "Radium" would appear to be an
In-Complete-Want-To-Be driven by the 'urge'
to Post these Forever Ponding Questions
for others to charge at like Don Quijote's
quest to slay Windmills {a fool's errand}
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Quixote
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fool%27s_errand

AM electromagnetic waves: 20 KHz modulation frequency on an astronomically-lowcarrier frequency

Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , cledus
writes
Radium wrote:
Hi:
Please don't be annoyed/offended by my question as I decreased the
modulation frequency to where it would actually be realistic.
I have a very weird question about electromagnetic radiation,
carriers, and modulators.

No offense but please respond with reasonable answers & keep out the
jokes, off-topic nonsense, taunts, insults, and trivializations. I am
really interested in this.
Thanks,
Radium

The fundamental answer is no, it is not possible to generate AM where
the baseband signal is a pure 20 kHz sinewave and Fc20kHz. The
reason is that the modulated waveform consists of the sum of a
sinewave at Fc, a sinewave at Fc+20kHz, and a sinewave at Fc-20kHz.
If Fc20kHz then one of the components becomes a "negative"
frequency. So the carrier must be greater than the baseband signal to
prevent this.

I'm afraid that this is not correct. The 'laws of physics' don't
suddenly stop working if the carrier is lower than the modulating
frequency. However, there's no need to get into complicated mathematics
to illustrate this. Here is a simple example:

(a) If you modulate a 10MHz carrier with a 1MHz signal, you will produce
two new signals (the sidebands) at the difference frequency of 10 minus
1 = 9MHz, and the sum frequency of 10 plus 1 = 11MHz. So you have the
original carrier at 10MHz, and sideband signals at 9 and 11MHz (with a
balanced modulator - no carrier - only 9 and 11MHz).

(b) If you modulate a 1MHz carrier with a 10MHz signal, you will produce
two new signals (the sidebands) at the difference frequency of 1 minus
10 = minus 9MHz, and the sum frequency of 1 plus 10 = 11MHz. The
implication of the negative 'minus 9' MHz signal is that the phase of
the 9MHz signal is inverted, ie 180 degrees out-of-phase from 9MHz
produced in (a). So you have the original carrier at 1MHz, and sidebands
at 9 and 11MHz (again, with a balanced modulator - no carrier - only 9
and 11MHz).

The waveforms of the full composite AM signals of (a) and (b) will look
quite different. The carriers are at different frequencies, and the
phase of the 9MHz signal is inverted. However, with a double-balanced
modulator, you will only have the 9 and 11MHz signal so, surprisingly,
the resulting signals of (a) and (b) will look the same.

[Note that, in practice, many double-balanced modulators/mixers put
loads of unwanted signals - mainly due the effects of harmonic mixing.
However, the basic 'laws of physics' still apply.]

Finally, although I have spoken with great authority, when I get a
chance I WILL be doing at test with a tobacco-tin double-balanced mixer,
a couple of signal generators and a spectrum analyser - just to make
sure that I'm not talking rubbish. In the meantime, I'm sure that some
will correct me if I'm wrong.

Ian.

Ian,

I believe your analysis is correct. But if you expect to build a
receiver that uses a filter centered at 1 MHz with a BW of 20+ MHz to
recover a DSB AM signal, I don't believe that the DBM approach will
accomplish this. With your approach, you could filter out the sidebands
by centering a filter around 10 MHz (the baseband freq). This could be
used to recover the baseband 10 MHz signal. But the OP asked about AM
of a carrier at very low frequencies. Good explanation of what happens
when using a DBM, though.

Regards,
-C

AM electromagnetic waves: 20 KHz modulation frequency on an astronomically-low carrier frequency

In article ,
cledus wrote:

Snip

Would you please have the decency to snip rec.radio.shortwave and other
groups from the newsgroup header. Thanks.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

AM electromagnetic waves: 20 KHz modulation frequency on an astronomically-low carrier frequency

"John Smith I" wrote in message
...
Listen to a "strong--pure am signal" on an fm receiver, turn up the volume
on the fm receiver, something is responsible for that ... repeat
experiment with the reverse ... "imperfect world theory" proof!

What is responsible for that is not that AM somehow also
produces FM, but simply that the type of demodulator used
by the FM receiver in question will also demodulate AM to
a usable degree. Ditto the reverse (look up "slope detection"
for an example of how a very common AM demodulator
can also demodulate FM).

Bob M.

AM electromagnetic waves: 20 KHz modulation frequency on an astronomically-low carrier frequency

On Jul 1, 10:06 pm, Telamon
wrote:
In article ,

cledus wrote:

Snip

- Would you please have the decency to snip
- rec.radio.shortwave and other groups from
- the newsgroup header. Thanks.
-
- --
- Telamon
- Ventura, California

Telamon,

Off-Topic + Cross-Posting -and- 'Decency'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxymoron
Wow - Now There Is A Real Oxymoron !

~ RHF

AM electromagnetic waves: 20 KHz modulation frequency on an astronomically-lowcarrier frequency

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Watch antennas:
http://www.c-max-time.com/products/productsOverview.php?catID=5
See the photos of the various antennas. Too bad there's no specs.

I'll grind out the field strength numbers later. I've been living in
the microwave region for so long, that I'm having problems with LF
calcs.

http://www.c-max-time.com/downloads/getFile.php?id=423
Gives dimensions,No of turns,Inductance etc.

AM electromagnetic waves: 20 KHz modulation frequency on anastronomically-low carrier frequency

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Conventional TV is VSB (visidual side band)

Vestigal Sideband

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida