Is Tarheel pricing their products out of the market? I had consideration
purchasing a little Tarheel II during our local Hamfest last weekend in
Aurora, IL. The dealer informed me the price had once again gone up and they
are now $289.99. Add to this amount the sales tax, auto-controller and mount
and you are way over $600.00. This is more then I paid for my FT-100D, which
I purchased new. At this point in time, the Hustler antenna is working fine
and I don't have to worry about theft.

Bob, AA8X

Bob John wrote:

The dealer informed me the price had once again gone up and they
are now $289.99. Add to this amount the sales tax, auto-controller and
mount and you are way over $600.00. This is more then I paid for my
FT-100D, which I purchased new. At this point in time, the Hustler antenna
is working fine and I don't have to worry about theft.

Why not build your own? Screwdrivers are not all that hard to build frankly
although they do take some patience and skill. The auto-controller or at
least similarly based items also have been described in QST for less than
you seem to be paying, and as for a mount, well, I suggest you get the 2000
WorldRadio CD which features Don Johnson's books for a description of how
to build your own mount. The same "books" also describe how to build a
working screwdriver antenna. Scaled down, you can build the equivalent of
the Little Tarheel.

Bob John wrote:
Is Tarheel pricing their products out of the market? I had consideration
purchasing a little Tarheel II during our local Hamfest last weekend in
Aurora, IL. The dealer informed me the price had once again gone up and they
are now $289.99. Add to this amount the sales tax, auto-controller and mount
and you are way over $600.00. This is more then I paid for my FT-100D, which
I purchased new. At this point in time, the Hustler antenna is working fine
and I don't have to worry about theft.

Bob, AA8X


Check out fair radio sales, they had some surplus screwdriver antenna
parts.

Jimmie

Thanks for the information as I will check into it. BTY, the Little Tarheel
now sells for $389.99 which is way too much money for this small antenna.
Bob

"JIMMIE" wrote in message
ups.com...

Bob John wrote:
Is Tarheel pricing their products out of the market? I had consideration
purchasing a little Tarheel II during our local Hamfest last weekend in
Aurora, IL. The dealer informed me the price had once again gone up and
they
are now $289.99. Add to this amount the sales tax, auto-controller and
mount
and you are way over $600.00. This is more then I paid for my FT-100D,
which
I purchased new. At this point in time, the Hustler antenna is working
fine
and I don't have to worry about theft.

Bob, AA8X


Check out fair radio sales, they had some surplus screwdriver antenna
parts.

Jimmie

hi,

I think the prices for USA manufactured antenna of this quality
is about right, compared to others in this class.

the Tarheel series is a production antenna, you can take a dozen or
so of the Tarheels off individual vehicles, disassemble them and mix
the parts up in a box and put it back together and each one will fit and
work as designed. They are not tossed together from random parts rund.

The original poster could order one from Tarheel and save the sales
taxes
if you live out of NC.

Bob John wrote:

Thanks for the information as I will check into it. BTY, the Little Tarheel
now sells for $389.99 which is way too much money for this small antenna.
Bob

Bob John wrote:
Thanks for the information as I will check into it. BTY, the Little Tarheel
now sells for $389.99 which is way too much money for this small antenna.
Bob

"JIMMIE" wrote in message
ups.com...

Bob John wrote:
Is Tarheel pricing their products out of the market? I had consideration
purchasing a little Tarheel II during our local Hamfest last weekend in
Aurora, IL. The dealer informed me the price had once again gone up and
they
are now $289.99. Add to this amount the sales tax, auto-controller and
mount
and you are way over $600.00. This is more then I paid for my FT-100D,
which
I purchased new. At this point in time, the Hustler antenna is working
fine


What I saw in the catalog was the coils for about $70. I dont see it
online. I think it still needed the stinger and a motor plus the
control box.


Jimmie
and I don't have to worry about theft.

Bob, AA8X


Check out fair radio sales, they had some surplus screwdriver antenna
parts.

Jimmie

Bob John wrote:
Is Tarheel pricing their products out of the market? I had consideration
purchasing a little Tarheel II during our local Hamfest last weekend in
Aurora, IL. The dealer informed me the price had once again gone up and they
are now $289.99.

Seems a reasonable price for a retail thing. Someone has to buy the
parts, someone has to pay someone to assemble it, someone has to store
it in a warehouse, someone has to sit in a store to sell it, etc.
All those steps add up.

When I worked in product design, we used to figure that retail selling
price (w/o discounts) would be 5-10 times the raw parts (Bill of
Materials, BOM) cost.

So, based on that, the parts cost for that antenna would be somewhere
between $25-50. Considering that most manufacturers avoid buying their
parts surplus (unless it's for a one-off), the motor alone is going
account for a significant fraction of that (unless they buy motors by
the pallet load, and even then, that might make them 30% cheaper, at best).

Then they have to buy finger stock, coils or wire to wind them, tubing
of various sizes, etc. Then, have pieces machined.

Add to this amount the sales tax,

Sales tax is something you can take up with your elected officials.
They have to get revenue somewhere to pave streets, run schools, pay
firemen, operate libraries, etc. Sales tax is a easy way for them to
collect it.

auto-controller and mount
and you are way over $600.00. This is more then I paid for my FT-100D, which
I purchased new.

At this point in time, the Hustler antenna is working fine
and I don't have to worry about theft.

Bob, AA8X

Jim Lux wrote:
Bob John wrote:
Is Tarheel pricing their products out of the market? I had
consideration purchasing a little Tarheel II during our local Hamfest
last weekend in Aurora, IL. The dealer informed me the price had once
again gone up and they are now $289.99.

Seems a reasonable price for a retail thing. Someone has to buy the
parts, someone has to pay someone to assemble it, someone has to store
it in a warehouse, someone has to sit in a store to sell it, etc.
All those steps add up.

When I worked in product design, we used to figure that retail selling
price (w/o discounts) would be 5-10 times the raw parts (Bill of
Materials, BOM) cost.

So, based on that, the parts cost for that antenna would be somewhere
between $25-50. . .

It makes absolutely no sense to apply one rule of thumb for pricing to
all industries and situations. First, most rules of thumb are based on
what it takes for a given business to make a profit on an item, and this
varies tremendously on the volume, amount of R&D required for
development, and a large number of other factors. What do you think the
price of EZNEC is as a multiple of the cost of the CD -- or a printer
ink cartridge based on its parts cost? How about a $3.00 calculator? But
this doesn't have anything to do with what a product is worth, anyway.
What a product is worth is what people are willing to pay for it, no
more, no less. It's senseless to spend time figuring out what a vendor
*should* charge based on some contrived rule based on only one of many
factors determining its manufacturing cost. Vote with your pocketbook.
If people find that the value of the item is worth the price, they'll
pay it. Otherwise, they won't. And anyone thinking an item is overpriced
should jump at the opportunity -- use the time you would have spent
grousing and make it yourself and sell it for less. You'll be on your
way to your first million. . . or, more likely, on your way to learning
a few basic rules about business.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Roy Lewallen wrote:
Jim Lux wrote:

Bob John wrote:

Is Tarheel pricing their products out of the market? I had
consideration purchasing a little Tarheel II during our local Hamfest
last weekend in Aurora, IL. The dealer informed me the price had once
again gone up and they are now $289.99.


Seems a reasonable price for a retail thing. Someone has to buy the
parts, someone has to pay someone to assemble it, someone has to store
it in a warehouse, someone has to sit in a store to sell it, etc.
All those steps add up.

When I worked in product design, we used to figure that retail selling
price (w/o discounts) would be 5-10 times the raw parts (Bill of
Materials, BOM) cost.

So, based on that, the parts cost for that antenna would be somewhere
between $25-50. . .


It makes absolutely no sense to apply one rule of thumb for pricing to
all industries and situations.

This is true, but I figure that building small quantities of antennas is
comparable to what we did in my former employer, which made small
quantities of special effects equipment.



First, most rules of thumb are based on
what it takes for a given business to make a profit on an item, and this
varies tremendously on the volume, amount of R&D required for
development, and a large number of other factors. What do you think the
price of EZNEC is as a multiple of the cost of the CD -- or a printer
ink cartridge based on its parts cost? How about a $3.00 calculator? But
this doesn't have anything to do with what a product is worth, anyway.
What a product is worth is what people are willing to pay for it, no
more, no less.

This is generally true.

It's senseless to spend time figuring out what a vendor
*should* charge based on some contrived rule based on only one of many
factors determining its manufacturing cost. Vote with your pocketbook.
If people find that the value of the item is worth the price, they'll
pay it. Otherwise, they won't. And anyone thinking an item is overpriced
should jump at the opportunity -- use the time you would have spent
grousing and make it yourself and sell it for less. You'll be on your
way to your first million. . . or, more likely, on your way to learning
a few basic rules about business.

which is why the 5-10x sorts of rules work.. they're based on the
realities of small scale manufacturing and retailing. If you had some
really nifty device that is in great demand AND nobody else can make it
(due to trade secrets needed (e.g. Coke) or patents) then you can charge
substantially more, and people willlingly pay for it, because it has
value. However, in the case of something like a screwdriver antenna,
where there's no "special sauce" nor patent protection, that would leave
the field open for a competitor to sell essentially the same item at a
cost closer to the basic cost of manufacture and sales. So, in that
sense, it's easier to figure out what a "fair" price might be.

In the software business, one has a great advantage (and a curse too, in
some ways) because one can price it at what people perceive it's worth,
independent of the manufacturing cost (although, presumably, one prices
it at least high enough to recover the original development cost).
This, of course, fits in the "you can't build it yourself cheaper"
category (at least if you abide by copyright laws, etc.), and, most good
software has some unique "value added" that is non-trivial to do in some
competing software.



Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Jim Lux wrote in
:

Roy Lewallen wrote:
Jim Lux wrote:

Bob John wrote:

Is Tarheel pricing their products out of the market? I had
consideration purchasing a little Tarheel II during our local
Hamfest last weekend in Aurora, IL. The dealer informed me the
price had once again gone up and they are now $289.99.


Seems a reasonable price for a retail thing. Someone has to buy the
parts, someone has to pay someone to assemble it, someone has to
store it in a warehouse, someone has to sit in a store to sell it,
etc. All those steps add up.

When I worked in product design, we used to figure that retail
selling price (w/o discounts) would be 5-10 times the raw parts
(Bill of Materials, BOM) cost.

So, based on that, the parts cost for that antenna would be
somewhere between $25-50. . .


It makes absolutely no sense to apply one rule of thumb for pricing
to all industries and situations.

This is true, but I figure that building small quantities of antennas
is comparable to what we did in my former employer, which made small
quantities of special effects equipment.



First, most rules of thumb are based on
what it takes for a given business to make a profit on an item, and
this varies tremendously on the volume, amount of R&D required for
development, and a large number of other factors. What do you think
the price of EZNEC is as a multiple of the cost of the CD -- or a
printer ink cartridge based on its parts cost? How about a $3.00
calculator? But this doesn't have anything to do with what a product
is worth, anyway. What a product is worth is what people are willing
to pay for it, no more, no less.

This is generally true.

It's senseless to spend time figuring out what a vendor
*should* charge based on some contrived rule based on only one of
many factors determining its manufacturing cost. Vote with your
pocketbook. If people find that the value of the item is worth the
price, they'll pay it. Otherwise, they won't. And anyone thinking an
item is overpriced should jump at the opportunity -- use the time you
would have spent grousing and make it yourself and sell it for less.
You'll be on your way to your first million. . . or, more likely, on
your way to learning a few basic rules about business.

which is why the 5-10x sorts of rules work.. they're based on the
realities of small scale manufacturing and retailing. If you had some
really nifty device that is in great demand AND nobody else can make
it (due to trade secrets needed (e.g. Coke) or patents) then you can
charge substantially more, and people willlingly pay for it, because
it has value. However, in the case of something like a screwdriver
antenna, where there's no "special sauce" nor patent protection, that
would leave the field open for a competitor to sell essentially the
same item at a cost closer to the basic cost of manufacture and sales.
So, in that sense, it's easier to figure out what a "fair" price
might be.

In the software business, one has a great advantage (and a curse too,
in some ways) because one can price it at what people perceive it's
worth, independent of the manufacturing cost (although, presumably,
one prices it at least high enough to recover the original development
cost). This, of course, fits in the "you can't build it yourself
cheaper" category (at least if you abide by copyright laws, etc.),
and, most good software has some unique "value added" that is
non-trivial to do in some competing software.

While we are on the subject, could someone post a comparison of the
Little Tarheel II vs. the High Sierra Sidekick?

I'm thinking of getting one or the other of these for my visegrip mount
out on the balcony, but could sure use some experienced advice.

--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667