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Hi, I'm a new ham, and I'm looking for my first HF transceiver. I am
considering the Yaesu FT-817ND. I did some google searches and could not
find any information about using an antenna tuner with this rig. How can
it work on all bands without a tuner? Would I need a tuner or does the
supplied antenna work on all bands without a tuner? I browsed the
owner's manual on Yaesu's web site as well and didn't see any mention
about using a tuner. The link to yaesu's page is
http://www.yaesu.com/indexVS.cfm?cmd...5&isArchived=0
I read some reviews on eHam too, and it almost sounds like the FT-817ND
doesn't need a tuner.. I'm confused.
Any opinions would be helpful.

Thanks!
Jim
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Hi, I'm a new ham, and I'm looking for my first HF transceiver. I am
considering the Yaesu FT-817ND. I did some google searches and could
not find any information about using an antenna tuner with this rig.
How can it work on all bands without a tuner? Would I need a tuner or
does the supplied antenna work on all bands without a tuner?

I'm not sure what you are referring to regarding the "supplied
antenna". The FT-817 does come with a small VHF antenna for 2 meter
operation, but like all other HF transceivers, it does not come with any
HF antenna. You can build yourself some dipole antennas for the bands
you want to operate on.... they would be resonant and have a 50 ohm
feedpoint so you would not need any tuner.... ( the output connection to
almost all radios has a 50 ohm impedance). If you want to use a non-
resonant antenna, then an outboard Tuner should work fine.... as long as
it is capable of operating at low power levels of 5Watts or less. LDG
Electronics makes some fine QRP type tuners. My old LDG Z-11 tuner
works great with my FT-817.


Ed K7AAT

In article , James
Barrett wrote:

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Hi, I'm a new ham, and I'm looking for my first HF transceiver. I am
considering the Yaesu FT-817ND.

I'm a new ham using the FT-817ND. I wish I had gotten a 100-watt rig as
my first transmitter and gotten the low-power 817ND later. I do like
the idea of QRP (low power) operation but it requires patience and some
experience with knowing when the bands are open. Probably not the best
choice for a new ham.

I did some google searches and could not
find any information about using an antenna tuner with this rig. How can
it work on all bands without a tuner?

For the frequencies above 30 MHz you can use the whip antenna that
comes with the 817ND. No tuner will be needed.

For the frequencies below 30 MHz you need some sort of outdoor antenna.
You can find some ready to use antennas at the MFJ Enterprises web site
among many other places. One example of a way to go is this. Get a
simple dipole antenna for the 80 meter band and install it outdoors.
You can use that antenna on the band it's made for without a tuner.

With the help of a tuner (such as the automatic Z-11 Pro by LDG
Electronics) you could also use that antenna on higher frequencies such
as the 40 meter band, the 30 meter band, etc.

sincerely,

anonymous in Florida

--
-30-

Anonymous wrote:

I'm a new ham using the FT-817ND. I wish I had gotten a 100-watt rig as
my first transmitter and gotten the low-power 817ND later. I do like
the idea of QRP (low power) operation but it requires patience and some
experience with knowing when the bands are open. Probably not the best
choice for a new ham.

As someone who is on the other end of the signal path, I can tell
you that 100 watts is not going to make much of a difference if the
band is not "open".

Your signal would be stronger and the two "S units" or so may bring it
above the noise (or not), but if I can't hear you at all, 5 watts,
100 watts, 1000 watts, or even 100,000 watts is not going to make
your signal show up somewhere there is no propigation to.

It WILL help for crowded bands, where hearing your signal a little louder
than the others, or at least not being lost in a pile-up, but that comes
back to skill and patience.

Timing is also critical, when I can hear U.S. stations it's around sunrise
and sunset here. Sunrise is when most U.S. hams are asleep (around 11pm-1am
EST) and just getting to work when the sun sets. You also can't guess it
by looking out the window, since I'm closer to the equator, days are
shorter in the summer and longer in the winter.

I know the bands do open, on contest weekends, they suddenly "come alive".

The other problem is the bands themselves. Our 80m band goes to 3850 and while
legally 40m now goes to 7200, in practice, it stops at 7100 where the zillion
watt SWBC stations make ham communications impossible.

Quite simply, you can call "CQ DX" on 75m or 40m and no one this side of the
world will hear you and if we do and reply, you won't hear us unless you are
listening where we may transmit.

So skill, patience, and timing are as important as the bands being open,
and IMHO more important than how much power you use.

You will also find that if you tell people you are QRP, they often make
things easier for you, such as "CQ DX CQ DX DE (or "this is" for voice)
callsign QRP". Repeat your callsign several times slowly and
phoneticaly for voice and for CW don't call CQ faster than you the
slowest speed you want to copy.

You also should LISTEN for a while so you understand what the other operator
wants. If you want quick contacts for points or QSL cards, don't answer a CQ
or call someone who likes to chat and vice versa.

Since this is an antenna group, having a good low noise antenna in a low noise
location helps. If all you hear is S9+ noise, you won't make many contacts.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/

Hi Jim

I haven't seen a simple answer to your question yet!

- I can see nothing in URL you sent to indicate that the radio has an
internal antenna tuner. ATU's running to coaxial (SO239/M) connectors
can be horribly lossy as well. (Or at least in the coax run from it to
the antenna) If it had a tuner as a "feature" it would say so to enhance
the products capabilities.

- If the antenna you are using presents a suitable load to the radio
then you don't need a standalone tuner. I don't actually run a tuner,
having built antennas that cover my bands of interest.

- If you want to have (say) just one simple antenna up, yes you'll need
a tuner with this radio (or some other method to match things. Lots of
possibilities to research here!)

- Keep in mind that with such a low output power the voltage handling
specs of you tuning components are much lower. Very easy to throw one
together with junk box parts.

Cheers Bob VK2YQA

James Barrett wrote:

Hi, I'm a new ham, and I'm looking for my first HF transceiver. I am
considering the Yaesu FT-817ND.

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Bob Bob wrote:
Hi Jim

I haven't seen a simple answer to your question yet!


I don't mind all the different answers. It actually helps me to figure
out what it's all about.

I think my first misunderstanding about the Yaesu was that in reading
the owner's manual, I had been expecting it to have a built-in automatic
tuner (the Icom 703+ has one). When I read about the VHF antenna which
comes with the radio it made it seem like I could use it on all bands..
of course I misunderstood what I was reading. I understand now that it
does not have a built in tuner, and I would either have to use an
external tuner or use a resonant antenna for whichever band I was going
to use.

At any rate, if I go with the Yaesu, one benefit would be that I would
gain experience in building and tuning my own antennas. That is
something I am interested in. Having an automatic tuner might make me
lazy. ;-)

I'm not worried about the low power either. I think having a high
powered radio for my first rig would make me lazy. It would be easier
for me to pump out wattage rather than fine tune my antenna. Besides
that, when I am ready for higher power, I could add an amplifier. One
thing at a time. ;-)


Jim

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"James Barrett" wrote in message
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Bob Bob wrote:
Hi Jim

I haven't seen a simple answer to your question yet!


I don't mind all the different answers. It actually helps me to figure
out what it's all about.

I think my first misunderstanding about the Yaesu was that in reading
the owner's manual, I had been expecting it to have a built-in automatic
tuner (the Icom 703+ has one). When I read about the VHF antenna which
comes with the radio it made it seem like I could use it on all bands..
of course I misunderstood what I was reading. I understand now that it
does not have a built in tuner, and I would either have to use an
external tuner or use a resonant antenna for whichever band I was going
to use.

At any rate, if I go with the Yaesu, one benefit would be that I would
gain experience in building and tuning my own antennas. That is
something I am interested in. Having an automatic tuner might make me
lazy. ;-)

There is nothing to keep you from doing this with any radio.



I'm not worried about the low power either. I think having a high
powered radio for my first rig would make me lazy. It would be easier
for me to pump out wattage rather than fine tune my antenna. Besides
that, when I am ready for higher power, I could add an amplifier. One
thing at a time. ;-)

Unless you have experience with QRP, you might find this an exercise in
frustration. If you don't want to spend the money now, I would look for a
deal on a used 100W rig. There is not much to choose from in amplifiers
(other than VHF/UHF) that don't require 100W of drive.

Tam/WB2TT



Jim

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Jim

I agree with Tam. It is way more cost effective to buy a 2nd hand 100W
radio than a new low power one. It's easy to reduce output power when
you want to. The only reason I would go so low is if I ever wanted to
run it backpack portable.

Compare some prices! You will then be able to afford an ATU as well!

Cheers Bob VK2YQA


Tam/WB2TT wrote:
Unless you have experience with QRP, you might find this an exercise in
frustration. If you don't want to spend the money now, I would look for a
deal on a used 100W rig. There is not much to choose from in amplifiers
(other than VHF/UHF) that don't require 100W of drive.

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I just found this on the yaesu web site. They offer an antenna called
the ATAS-25. It appears to be an antenna that you can easily tune. The
instructions say to use the SWR meter (I think it has one built in) in
CW mode to test the antenna, and make adjustments to it as needed.

Jim
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On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 15:05:01 -0400, James Barrett
wrote:

I read some reviews on eHam too, and it almost sounds like the FT-817ND
doesn't need a tuner.. I'm confused.
Any opinions would be helpful.

Hi Jim,

I think the confusion of needing no tuner is that you won't burn out
the finals driving a short or an open (you don't have enough power to
light a candle). Of course, this is no recommendation for a
successful QSO, but matching from the manufacturer's point of view is
about keeping your rig out of their repair shop (where they risk
having a mad customer for any of a number of reasons).

Second, automatic tuners in the bigger, 100W units, don't work all
that well with random wire. Ultimately you are building the SAME
resonant antenna for both rigs for the SAME reason = getting all the
power to radiate. Moral: build/buy an external tuner.

Third, as to power, learn all about electronics and build yourself a
100W linear. Cheaper than a 1KW linear and you may even find/rob a
100W amplifier deck from a dead HF rig at a swap meet. Their input is
typically in the 1 to 2 Watt range and this design (the deck) has been
around for three decades (which means if you steal ANY schematic from
the equipment from ANY manufacturer for the past 30 years, you stand a
good chance of having the complete design already done with a complete
and mud-ordinary parts list).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC