art wrote:
A friend of mine wants to try out the AO program by Beazely.
The program is not in the commercial market now as it is not being
sold
He wants to make a copy of my disc to try something out that requires
AO
I suppose since it is not for sale which probably means copyrights are
now defunct
I don't see any reason to not acceed to his request.
Ofcourse so few people pay for computor programs these days but I like
to do things right,

Why not ask? If the author is not selling it, then he might well be
quite happy for you to distribute a copy.

after all if a patent is abandoned then it is a free for all since
the advance of science cannot be stopped and it becomes freeware

I don't think the copyright expires on a bit of software like this. I
belive there is a limit on books, but that is about 30 years or so -
quite a long while anyway. Should software be the same, then I doubt the
copyright has expired on any of it.



Comments
Art

On 4 Nov, 09:21, Dave wrote:
art wrote:
A friend of mine wants to try out the AO program by Beazely.
The program is not in the commercial market now as it is not being
sold
He wants to make a copy of my disc to try something out that requires
AO
I suppose since it is not for sale which probably means copyrights are
now defunct
I don't see any reason to not acceed to his request.
Ofcourse so few people pay for computor programs these days but I like
to do things right,

Why not ask? If the author is not selling it, then he might well be
quite happy for you to distribute a copy.

after all if a patent is abandoned then it is a free for all since
the advance of science cannot be stopped and it becomes freeware

I don't think the copyright expires on a bit of software like this. I
belive there is a limit on books, but that is about 30 years or so -
quite a long while anyway. Should software be the same, then I doubt the
copyright has expired on any of it.



Comments
Art- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yup,
you are probabl;y correct! I will get around it by lending it
while retaining ownership which apparently what is normaslly done
these days.
Shame that it is being squirreled away so nobody can use it
especially since it is still considered the best there is.
As for asking he does not answer Emails as he now works
in other areas. People have been asking for it so that they
can see and model Gaussian antennas for themselves and I don't know
of another program that would accept it
Art

art wrote:

Yup,
you are probabl;y correct! I will get around it by lending it
while retaining ownership which apparently what is normaslly done
these days.

Actually, odds are that you do not OWN the software. You probably
licensed it, and you'd have to look at the license terms to see if it
can be "loaned". Most licenses prohibit loaning.

Shame that it is being squirreled away so nobody can use it
especially since it is still considered the best there is.

Considered by who? It's certainly convenient and structured in a way
that fits well with ham users, but for antenna optimization in general,
there are an awful lot of very sophisticated programs out there.

As for asking he does not answer Emails as he now works
in other areas. People have been asking for it so that they
can see and model Gaussian antennas for themselves and I don't know
of another program that would accept it
Art


I believe that the reason he doesn't respond is that he (justifiably)
felt taken advantage of by people who duplicated his software without
paying for it. So, he decided "well, if that user community can't be
trusted.. I'm not interested in providing support."

My interpretation, not Brian's.

Dave wrote:
art wrote:
A friend of mine wants to try out the AO program by Beazely.
The program is not in the commercial market now as it is not being
sold
He wants to make a copy of my disc to try something out that requires
AO
I suppose since it is not for sale which probably means copyrights are
now defunct
I don't see any reason to not acceed to his request.
Ofcourse so few people pay for computor programs these days but I like
to do things right,

Why not ask? If the author is not selling it, then he might well be
quite happy for you to distribute a copy.

after all if a patent is abandoned then it is a free for all since
the advance of science cannot be stopped and it becomes freeware

I don't think the copyright expires on a bit of software like this. I
belive there is a limit on books, but that is about 30 years or so -
quite a long while anyway. Should software be the same, then I doubt the
copyright has expired on any of it.

A copyright doesn't go "defunct" because the author ceases selling the
copyrighted material. In fact, the author doesn't need to sell the
material at all in the first place, or be alive for that matter, for the
copyright to be in effect. And the copyright exists as soon as the
material is created. Anyone truly interested in learning what the (U.S.)
rules really are can find ample information at http://uspto.gov. I do
realize, however, that some people would rather make up imaginary rules
to justify what they want to do anyway.

I'm happy to say that a lot of people do pay for software these days.
It's not uncommon for me to get a check from an EZNEC user with a
request to send a program to a friend. It's refreshing and heartening to
see that most people are honest, and see the fairness of paying for
someone else's labor.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Brian is unlikely to either agree to sharing or to provide a new
copy...

On 4 Nov, 16:20, Denny wrote:
Brian is unlikely to either agree to sharing or to provide a new
copy...

I already have two copies which are paid for so I can
share one with another person or give it as a gift
Seems wierd to me that a patent costs a lot of money to get
and requires a maintenance fee every two years to provide
protection in the name of science as well as forcing
publication for public reading Yet a computor program
has similar protection as a trade secret or better which lasts for
an awefull long time and can be used for the prevention
of the advance of science by not making it available so
the science can be advanced.
I think the public is realising that the feds are incompetant and the
law requires extensive costs to the owners with little chance of
returns.
I see it done in the musical industry and there are plenty of places
on
the net that furnish "abandoned" computor programs. We have plenty
of laws in the U.S. but the feds are not interested in enforcement
anymore.
Judges also are not willing to get involved with such nuisance cases
either
since damages are not being proven as extensive and the rights of
"fair use" laws
are making things both difficult and costly. The entertainment
industry has
very deep pockets but are finding that that is not enough since it
is
now considered a "scoff" law. A patent holder knows first hand that
it is nigh impossible to stop piracy unless the pockets are really
deep and
big profits and competition is at stake.
Art

art wrote:
I see it done in the musical industry and there are plenty of places
on
the net that furnish "abandoned" computor programs. We have plenty
of laws in the U.S. but the feds are not interested in enforcement
anymore.

The biggest one for games is in Thailand. In the U.S. it's illegal
to download from them.

Geoff.



--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/

art wrote:
On 4 Nov, 16:20, Denny wrote:
Brian is unlikely to either agree to sharing or to provide a new
copy...

I already have two copies which are paid for so I can
share one with another person or give it as a gift
Seems wierd to me that a patent costs a lot of money to get
and requires a maintenance fee every two years to provide
protection in the name of science as well as forcing
publication for public reading Yet a computor program
has similar protection as a trade secret or better which lasts for
an awefull long time and can be used for the prevention
of the advance of science by not making it available so
the science can be advanced.
I think the public is realising that the feds are incompetant and the
law requires extensive costs to the owners with little chance of
returns.
I see it done in the musical industry and there are plenty of places
on
the net that furnish "abandoned" computor programs. We have plenty
of laws in the U.S. but the feds are not interested in enforcement
anymore.
Judges also are not willing to get involved with such nuisance cases
either
since damages are not being proven as extensive and the rights of
"fair use" laws
are making things both difficult and costly. The entertainment
industry has
very deep pockets but are finding that that is not enough since it
is
now considered a "scoff" law. A patent holder knows first hand that
it is nigh impossible to stop piracy unless the pockets are really
deep and
big profits and competition is at stake.
Art


It's a shame there is not a law that allows software to be used freely
after x years of no new updates.

I recall reading that some people have bought Cray supercomputers for
use at home as a hobbiest. But apparently the software to run them is
specific to the S/N of the machine, and you can't get it without paying
huge amounts of money. Seems a bit odd if the machine is 10 or more
years old. There is no commercial loss to a company if someone hobbyiest
is running an old machine that is less powerful than his PC.

I know Sun Microsystems have been helpful in supplying old software
(SunOs + others) to people that want to use it on old machines. But Cray
were not apparently. And from what I understand, its not as easy to copy
on a Cray.

Dave wrote:
It's a shame there is not a law that allows software to be used freely
after x years of no new updates.

You are welcome to lobby your represntatives to change the copyright
laws.

I know Sun Microsystems have been helpful in supplying old software
(SunOs + others) to people that want to use it on old machines. But Cray
were not apparently. And from what I understand, its not as easy to copy
on a Cray.

There are two things wrong with this.

1. Sun has not been helpful supplying SUNOS for old machines, they have
only been less than agressive in enforcing their copyright.
However you will find that the sites that they have not gone
after are outside the U.S.

They will provide for free download Solaris (SUNOS 5) 8, 9 and 10
for download if you sign up (for free) and accept their restricted
license.

There is an open source version of Solaris 10, however that only supports
the UltraSparc II and later processors.

Solaris 7, which was available for shipping costs, was originaly released
at about $500 and derivative versions (e.g. Tadpole's) were never free.

Anything older is long gone, and not available from SUN.

2. What's left of Cray is owned by Sun. After Seymor Cray died, the
company went under and Sun bought them out. SUN produced a line
of "Cray" computers which had SPARC processors in them.

Note that many UNIX vendors had a license from AT&T that required
them to pay AT&T $60 for each workstation (2 or less users) or
$250 per server binary package they sold.

Sun in those days included a RTU "right to use" license for SunOS
when you bought a new computer, but technicaly it was not transferable.


Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/

Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
Dave wrote:
It's a shame there is not a law that allows software to be used freely
after x years of no new updates.

You are welcome to lobby your represntatives to change the copyright
laws.

I do not intend to. But it would seem sensible. If someone has no
intension of selling something any more, it is hard to see what he/she
looses by others having it. Obviously if they sell something similar,
then I can see it would hurt them. But if they simply have given up
selling software like it, then I see no reason it should not be free.

I know Sun Microsystems have been helpful in supplying old software
(SunOs + others) to people that want to use it on old machines. But Cray
were not apparently. And from what I understand, its not as easy to copy
on a Cray.

There are two things wrong with this.

1. Sun has not been helpful supplying SUNOS for old machines, they have
only been less than agressive in enforcing their copyright.

I know of people who have got things from directly from Sun for old
machines.

However you will find that the sites that they have not gone
after are outside the U.S.



They will provide for free download Solaris (SUNOS 5) 8, 9 and 10
for download if you sign up (for free) and accept their restricted
license.

I'm not sure if you can get 8 or 9 now. Perhaps 9, but I've not seen 8.
Must admit I have not looked too hard. I am typing this on a machine
with Solaris 10


Solaris 10 really is excellent value. Use it on any machine, with any
number of CPUs, commercial / hobby / educational, and it costs you $0.00.

I've seriously considered deleting Vista from my laptop and putting
Solaris on that. But I know it will be a pain to get it all working,
drivers etc.

There is an open source version of Solaris 10, however that only supports
the UltraSparc II and later processors.

That is not true. OpenSolaris runs on x86 and x64 hardware. I know that,
as I installed it myself.

Or perhaps you mean it does not support early *SPARC* processors. If so,
I would agree with you.

Solaris 7, which was available for shipping costs, was originaly released
at about $500 and derivative versions (e.g. Tadpole's) were never free.

Yes, I bought 7 myself for shipping costs. Strange thing is I wanted to
buy two copies - one for me, one for someone else. Sun would not allow
me to order two though! Some silly reason - I forget what it was.

Anything older is long gone, and not available from SUN.

I think there are plenty of sources in Sun which will give this sort of
stuff away.


2. What's left of Cray is owned by Sun. After Seymor Cray died, the
company went under and Sun bought them out. SUN produced a line
of "Cray" computers which had SPARC processors in them.

Note that many UNIX vendors had a license from AT&T that required
them to pay AT&T $60 for each workstation (2 or less users) or
$250 per server binary package they sold.



Sun in those days included a RTU "right to use" license for SunOS
when you bought a new computer, but technicaly it was not transferable.




Geoff.