Cecil Moore wrote:

It is exactly my point that
there is no phase shift associated with standing-
wave current in a coil or in a wire so it CANNOT
be used to "measure" phase shift.

On the other hand, the standing wave, which is nothing more than the
superposition of the forward and reflected waves, easily demonstrates
the effect the propagation delay has on the forward and reflected waves.

There is NO
phase information in the current used for the
W8JI and W7EL measurements.

That certainly can't be said about your measurements. Perhaps that's
why you're so reluctant to make any? :-)

They both apparently
thought they were measuring traveling-wave currents
when the currents were actually overwhelmingly
standing-wave currents.

Don't flatter yourself, Cecil. You're not that much smarter than
everybody else in the room.

73, ac6xg

Jim Kelley wrote:
On the other hand, the standing wave, which is nothing more than the
superposition of the forward and reflected waves, easily demonstrates
the effect the propagation delay has on the forward and reflected waves.

But the phase information in the forward and reflected
waves does not appear as phase information in the standing
wave. The forward and reflected phase information appears
in the standing-wave amplitude. That is another error that
W8JI and W7EL made. The different amplitudes of standing-
wave current at each end of a coil is NOT caused by losses
and radiation. It is caused by superposition of the forward
and reflected waves. It would still happen if there was zero
losses and zero radiation.

Don't flatter yourself, Cecil. You're not that much smarter than
everybody else in the room.

Not smarter - just more observant. I saw something that
nobody else was looking for. It is only closed minds that
are the problem now.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Cecil Moore wrote:

Don't flatter yourself, Cecil. You're not that much smarter than
everybody else in the room.


Not smarter - just more observant. I saw something that
nobody else was looking for.

Yes. Seek and ye shall find.

It is only closed minds that
are the problem now.

A perspective which apparently shifts depending on which side of the
room you happen to be standing.

73, ac6xg

Jim Kelley wrote:

Cecil Moore wrote:
It is only closed minds that
are the problem now.

A perspective which apparently shifts depending on which side of the
room you happen to be standing.

My mind is open, Jim, but since you refuse to enter into
a technical discussion, I am not likely to change mine.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

I see Cecil is still using misdirection, that old but reliable trick of
illusionists, to try and divert attention away from the flaws in his
imaginative theories. Have patience. Even he will tire of it after a
while, and get back to his waves of average power that bounce off each
other when they collide.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Jim Kelley wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote:

It is exactly my point that
there is no phase shift associated with standing-
wave current in a coil or in a wire so it CANNOT
be used to "measure" phase shift.

On the other hand, the standing wave, which is nothing more than the
superposition of the forward and reflected waves, easily demonstrates
the effect the propagation delay has on the forward and reflected waves.

There is NO
phase information in the current used for the
W8JI and W7EL measurements.

That certainly can't be said about your measurements. Perhaps that's
why you're so reluctant to make any? :-)

They both apparently
thought they were measuring traveling-wave currents
when the currents were actually overwhelmingly
standing-wave currents.

Don't flatter yourself, Cecil. You're not that much smarter than
everybody else in the room.

73, ac6xg

Roy Lewallen wrote:
I see Cecil is still using misdirection, that old but reliable trick of
illusionists, to try and divert attention away from the flaws in his
imaginative theories.

This ad hominem attack brought to you by the person who
has asserted that he used a current with unchanging phase
to measure the phase shift through a loading coil and
that he stands by that measurement.

Even he will tire of it after a
while, and get back to his waves of average power that bounce off each
other when they collide.

Posting a statement that you know is false is not
ethical. EM waves do have energy which averaged over
a number of cycles is called irradiance in optics.
That energy passing a fixed measurement point is the
average power. And the waves don't bounce off each
other - they superpose, sometimes interfere, and
sometimes cancel.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com