I've had good luck with a portable antenna system that I use QRP with
an FT817, on 80-10m. I use a High Sierra Sidekick short screwdriver
antenna (other "shorter" brands would also work ) with a modified
BuddiPole mast and tripod. WIth my 5 watts I can work many stations
that I can hear as long as there are no pileups - if so you need some
patience!

I modified this by making a bracket for the mast that holds 4 , 10-12
ft MFJ telescoping antennas horizonatally to form the counterpoise. I
use a 10 ft telescoping antenna on the screwdriver to make it more
efficient on HF. All of this fits in a medium suitcase and when folded
is only 24 inches long. To power the screwdriver motor I use a 9 volt,
yes 9 volt, standard battery with a manual up/down switch. I use
multiple Mix 31 ferrite beads on the coax and antenna motor wires at
the antenna. I prefer the screwdriver type antenna as it is remotely
tunable and most of them work well on 9-12 volts and don't require
heavy duty batteries - I like to switch bands a lot but don't like to
manually tune antennas "every 10 minutes". This setup puts the base of
the antenna 7 to 8 feet above the ground so you have a bit less ground
loss than if you put the ground counterpoise on the ground or a few
feet above the ground.

The angle of radiation on this is probably at the horizon so if you're
looking for short range HF then this would not be the configuration to
use.

I've thought about making the bracket commerically available if anyone
was interested, to augment my mobile antenna supplies
(www.repDesign.us). If interested let me know.

73,
Dick Post, N7EMW



On Jan 27, 11:23*pm, Tom Horne wrote:
I am a RACES / ARES member who is trying to actually prepare for
deployment with the ability to carry on effective communications from
anywhere. *I'm here in the antenna forum to get advice on a portable
antenna system. *I'm not here to join anyones particular theoretical
antenna behavior cult. *If you have real world experience with a
portable multi band antenna system that actually worked for you please
share that experience with me.

Ive seen a couple of folded dipole antennas advertised that appear to
have some sort of fifty ohm dummy load at the center of the fold. *Do
those things do more then provide a heat source for fleeing birds?

There are several compact vertical and horizontal antennas being sold
complete with stands or tripods are any of them worth their freight?

The so called spiderweb beams look interesting can anyone offer real
world experience on those?

I'm honestly looking for advice that is based on experience rather than
a particular theory of what should work. *I want to know what does work
from real world users.
--
Tom Horne, W3TDH K

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. *It is much too dangerous
for general use." *Thomas Alva Edison

I didn't mention the issue of antenna tuners it but I was thinking of
including the Yaesu FC-30 tuner in the HF set but I wanted to get some
advice first. I was considering that tuner because it can be directly
controlled by the transceiver and even bolted right to it. If that's a
bad idea I have not bought one yet.

I take it you are not a fan of the diesel fuel and ammonium nitrate
fertilizer solution to stumps. {;)
Stumps....
I try to resist the urge to experiment in that direction. I continue
to look for a mentor that has gray hair, and a complete inventory of
eyes & limbs. I sure miss the days when every hardware store carried
Calcium Carbide.

Can you recommend any fuses or detonators?

tuners
I like built in tuners but I like having the tuner at the antenna even
better. In days past a big mismatch was just an inconvenience. Today
RF at the operating position means the only equipment that does work
is the radio.

I use only two HF antennas at this time. The 28 foot vertical with the
SGC-237 which works fine 10-160m with no Shack RF and A Cushcraft A3S
40-10 beam with the tuner in the TenTec Jupiter. Both meet my
expectations.

A vertical MAY NOT meet your mission profile for short range
communications. A low dipole (High enough not to present a safety
hazard) may be more useful.

As an earlier poster pointed out, it would be best to select a length
that is NOT a half wave on a desired operating frequency.

Once again, a clever technician can beat any tuner but I find it
difficult to be clever when it is dark, cold, wet and hungry.

John Ferrell W8CCW
"Life is easier if you learn to
plow around the stumps"

John Ferrell wrote:
I didn't mention the issue of antenna tuners it but I was thinking of
including the Yaesu FC-30 tuner in the HF set but I wanted to get some
advice first. I was considering that tuner because it can be directly
controlled by the transceiver and even bolted right to it. If that's a
bad idea I have not bought one yet.

I take it you are not a fan of the diesel fuel and ammonium nitrate
fertilizer solution to stumps. {;)
Stumps....
I try to resist the urge to experiment in that direction. I continue
to look for a mentor that has gray hair, and a complete inventory of
eyes & limbs. I sure miss the days when every hardware store carried
Calcium Carbide.

Can you recommend any fuses or detonators?

A common 1/4 stick fire cracker as the detonator and model rocket engine
nichrome wire igniters wired to energize from a safe distance away. You
have to pack the mixture pretty tight with the fire cracker in the
middle. Wrap the nichrome igniter wire around the firecracker's fuse,
run your wire out a safe distance, connect wires to battery terminal and
key operated switch / covered push button combination, make the needed
safety announcement, when all check points report all clear insert and
operate the keyed switch, begin countdown, press button.
--
Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous
for general use." Thomas Alva Edison

tuners
I like built in tuners but I like having the tuner at the antenna even
better. In days past a big mismatch was just an inconvenience. Today
RF at the operating position means the only equipment that does work
is the radio.

I use only two HF antennas at this time. The 28 foot vertical with the
SGC-237 which works fine 10-160m with no Shack RF and A Cushcraft A3S
40-10 beam with the tuner in the TenTec Jupiter. Both meet my
expectations.

A vertical MAY NOT meet your mission profile for short range
communications. A low dipole (High enough not to present a safety
hazard) may be more useful.

As an earlier poster pointed out, it would be best to select a length
that is NOT a half wave on a desired operating frequency.

Once again, a clever technician can beat any tuner but I find it
difficult to be clever when it is dark, cold, wet and hungry.

John Ferrell W8CCW
"Life is easier if you learn to
plow around the stumps"

A common 1/4 stick fire cracker as the detonator and model rocket engine
nichrome wire igniters wired to energize from a safe distance away. You
have to pack the mixture pretty tight with the fire cracker in the
middle. Wrap the nichrome igniter wire around the firecracker's fuse,
run your wire out a safe distance, connect wires to battery terminal and
key operated switch / covered push button combination, make the needed
safety announcement, when all check points report all clear insert and
operate the keyed switch, begin countdown, press button.

Firecrackers are not readily available here but I will give it some
thought. Knee replacement is on the schedule for next week so the lab
work will have to wait...

John Ferrell W8CCW
"Life is easier if you learn to
plow around the stumps"

Tom Horne wrote:
I am a RACES / ARES member who is trying to actually prepare for
deployment with the ability to carry on effective communications from
anywhere. I'm here in the antenna forum to get advice on a portable
antenna system. I'm not here to join anyones particular theoretical
antenna behavior cult. If you have real world experience with a
portable multi band antenna system that actually worked for you please
share that experience with me.

Hi Tom.

First things first - Are you willing to learn anything? This isn't as
rude as it may first appear. I've had a good bit of experience with
folks in emergency ops who don't want to learn about HF, they just want
a one size fits all answer.


Ive seen a couple of folded dipole antennas advertised that appear to
have some sort of fifty ohm dummy load at the center of the fold. Do
those things do more then provide a heat source for fleeing birds?

They are not particularly good antennas. But they might just be good for
your purpose. They are very wideband, and that may be important if you
don't want to run a tuner. Many of their limitations can be overcome
with applying more power.

Before I get beat up by the antenna purists, the folded dipoles do serve
a purpose of being antennas that you don't have to mess around with. I'd
never own one, but for this purpose, maybe so.


There are several compact vertical and horizontal antennas being sold
complete with stands or tripods are any of them worth their freight?

I suspect that the folded dipole would work a bit better.

The so called spiderweb beams look interesting can anyone offer real
world experience on those?

No experience here, but under emergency condx, it seems like a nuisance.

I'm honestly looking for advice that is based on experience rather than
a particular theory of what should work. I want to know what does work
from real world users.

And yet you came here! Just a joke son...

a few questions might be in order:

Are you looking for rapid setup, or are you going to be in a regular
location with the antenna already in position? You noted deployment, so
I'll assume the former.

For speed of deployment and flexibility, it is hard to beat a general
purpose dipole, ladder line, and a tuner.

It is inexpensive, inherently all HF band, and performs pretty darn
well. You do have to run a tuner, which is pretty simple, but that goes
along with my how much do you want to learn schtick.


All you need is a couple of trees, or even masts, and you can be set up
and running in a short time.

Length of the antenna can be adjusted according to how much space you
have at deployment. Of course, the shorter you make it, the less well it
performs on the lower bands.

I've used these for years, and have talked and buzzed the world over.

I tend to shy away from beams for emergency use, unless I have an omni
or near omni antenna to complement them.

The much maligned Folded dipole would be next on my list. Simple to set
up and use. It isn't as forgiving on length as the general purpose
dipole however.

Those shorty verticals work pretty fair on the higher frequencies, but
are a real b***h on 80 meters. The bandwidth is quite sharp, and can
give you fits.

I use a bugcatcher on 80 in the car because there isn't much
alternative, and I have to have multiple taps to tune 80/75 meters.

Screwdrivers tune more easily on 80/75, but their performance is down a
little from the bugcatcher. I'd steer away from short verticals if you
think you're going to be doing work in that neighborhood.

Hope this helps.

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

John Ferrell wrote:

I know my solution will annoy the purists, but I offer it anyway...
I would recommend using the SGC-237 tuner (not cheap)! If it cannot
load what ever antenna you can get up or improvise it probably cannot
be done. With this device, a ground and 28 feet of vertical wire you
can work to 160 meters. Of course the better the ground, the better
the performance. A quarter wave on frequency might work better, but
whatever you have will work.

Performance probably won't be that great, but hey, it's an option.

And the purists would be arguing and wouldn't geth the antenna up until
after the emergency is over, if then! ;^)

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

Michael Coslo wrote:
Tom Horne wrote:
I am a RACES / ARES member who is trying to actually prepare for
deployment with the ability to carry on effective communications from
anywhere. I'm here in the antenna forum to get advice on a portable
antenna system. I'm not here to join anyones particular theoretical
antenna behavior cult. If you have real world experience with a
portable multi band antenna system that actually worked for you please
share that experience with me.

Hi Tom.

First things first - Are you willing to learn anything? This isn't as
rude as it may first appear. I've had a good bit of experience with
folks in emergency ops who don't want to learn about HF, they just want
a one size fits all answer.


Ive seen a couple of folded dipole antennas advertised that appear to
have some sort of fifty ohm dummy load at the center of the fold. Do
those things do more then provide a heat source for fleeing birds?

They are not particularly good antennas. But they might just be good for
your purpose. They are very wideband, and that may be important if you
don't want to run a tuner. Many of their limitations can be overcome
with applying more power.

Before I get beat up by the antenna purists, the folded dipoles do serve
a purpose of being antennas that you don't have to mess around with. I'd
never own one, but for this purpose, maybe so.


There are several compact vertical and horizontal antennas being sold
complete with stands or tripods are any of them worth their freight?

I suspect that the folded dipole would work a bit better.

The so called spiderweb beams look interesting can anyone offer real
world experience on those?

No experience here, but under emergency condx, it seems like a
nuisance.

I'm honestly looking for advice that is based on experience rather
than a particular theory of what should work. I want to know what
does work from real world users.

And yet you came here! Just a joke son...

a few questions might be in order:

Are you looking for rapid setup, or are you going to be in a regular
location with the antenna already in position? You noted deployment, so
I'll assume the former.

For speed of deployment and flexibility, it is hard to beat a
general purpose dipole, ladder line, and a tuner.

It is inexpensive, inherently all HF band, and performs pretty darn
well. You do have to run a tuner, which is pretty simple, but that goes
along with my how much do you want to learn schtick.


All you need is a couple of trees, or even masts, and you can be set
up and running in a short time.

Length of the antenna can be adjusted according to how much space
you have at deployment. Of course, the shorter you make it, the less
well it performs on the lower bands.

I've used these for years, and have talked and buzzed the world over.

I tend to shy away from beams for emergency use, unless I have an omni
or near omni antenna to complement them.

The much maligned Folded dipole would be next on my list. Simple to
set up and use. It isn't as forgiving on length as the general purpose
dipole however.

Those shorty verticals work pretty fair on the higher frequencies, but
are a real b***h on 80 meters. The bandwidth is quite sharp, and can
give you fits.

I use a bugcatcher on 80 in the car because there isn't much
alternative, and I have to have multiple taps to tune 80/75 meters.

Screwdrivers tune more easily on 80/75, but their performance is down a
little from the bugcatcher. I'd steer away from short verticals if you
think you're going to be doing work in that neighborhood.

Hope this helps.

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

I will learn whatever I need to in order to be an effective radio
operator when that is what is really needed. I've already set up a
Winlink2000 gateway just to learn how. I've got a portable packet set
up worked out using just an HT, a readily portable TNC, laptop computer,
and a portable J-pole. I'm scheduled for my Skywarn class and I'm
enrolled in the Level 1 Amateur Radio Emergency Communications course
and I plan on taking all three courses and the needed exams to become a
certified emergency communicator. I think I can honestly say I'm
willing to learn.

What I was hoping to find was operators who have already used one or
more of the antennas I was asking about who would be willing to share
their experience of the effectiveness or lack of same with me.
--
Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous
for general use." Thomas Alva Edison

Tom Horne wrote in
news:gjxoj.14357$fs4.12898@trnddc02:
I will learn whatever I need to in order to be an effective radio
operator when that is what is really needed. I've already set up a
Winlink2000 gateway just to learn how. I've got a portable packet set
up worked out using just an HT, a readily portable TNC, laptop
computer, and a portable J-pole. I'm scheduled for my Skywarn class
and I'm enrolled in the Level 1 Amateur Radio Emergency Communications
course and I plan on taking all three courses and the needed exams to
become a certified emergency communicator. I think I can honestly say
I'm willing to learn.

Okay, Tom, good to hear that. First thing of course is to get the
General license.

Second thing is that HF is a whole different animal than VHF. My
experience with new guys and gals is that they often think of HF/MF as
just another set of frequencies to use. It is and it isn't. Propagation
knowledge is needed, not only on your end of the signal, but on the other
end as well. Working the vagaries of propagation is one of the great joys
of Ham radio, but it requires a pretty big commitment, and an enjoyment
of the game as well. You're going to have to get on the air, and spend a
couple years learning - it isn't going to be like using a computer
program.

HF is an unruly beast, and your antenna is only going to be a small part
of it.

I'm not trying to bust your chops here, it's just a different ball game,
and your post started out like one of those "just tell me what I need to
do" commercials. 8^)

What I was hoping to find was operators who have already used one or
more of the antennas I was asking about who would be willing to share
their experience of the effectiveness or lack of same with me.


My vote is for the general purpose dipole and a tuner. Flexible,
and "all HF band". It will work in multiple locations, (important for an
antenna that must be raised in whatever condx are present) is reasonably
efficient, and works pretty darn well.

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

Mike Coslo wrote:
Tom Horne wrote in
news:gjxoj.14357$fs4.12898@trnddc02:
I will learn whatever I need to in order to be an effective radio
operator when that is what is really needed. I've already set up a
Winlink2000 gateway just to learn how. I've got a portable packet set
up worked out using just an HT, a readily portable TNC, laptop
computer, and a portable J-pole. I'm scheduled for my Skywarn class
and I'm enrolled in the Level 1 Amateur Radio Emergency Communications
course and I plan on taking all three courses and the needed exams to
become a certified emergency communicator. I think I can honestly say
I'm willing to learn.

Okay, Tom, good to hear that. First thing of course is to get the
General license.

Second thing is that HF is a whole different animal than VHF. My
experience with new guys and gals is that they often think of HF/MF as
just another set of frequencies to use. It is and it isn't. Propagation
knowledge is needed, not only on your end of the signal, but on the other
end as well. Working the vagaries of propagation is one of the great joys
of Ham radio, but it requires a pretty big commitment, and an enjoyment
of the game as well. You're going to have to get on the air, and spend a
couple years learning - it isn't going to be like using a computer
program.

HF is an unruly beast, and your antenna is only going to be a small part
of it.

I'm not trying to bust your chops here, it's just a different ball game,
and your post started out like one of those "just tell me what I need to
do" commercials. 8^)

What I was hoping to find was operators who have already used one or
more of the antennas I was asking about who would be willing to share
their experience of the effectiveness or lack of same with me.


My vote is for the general purpose dipole and a tuner. Flexible,
and "all HF band". It will work in multiple locations, (important for an
antenna that must be raised in whatever condx are present) is reasonably
efficient, and works pretty darn well.

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

I don't know what data base your checking but I have an Extra class
license already. The reason I spent do much time on VHF is that is were
the public service work gets done for the most part.
--
Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous
for general use." Thomas Alva Edison

Tom Horne wrote:

I don't know what data base your checking but I have an Extra class
license already. The reason I spent do much time on VHF is that is were
the public service work gets done for the most part.

Okay, good enough. Sorry for the mistake. I'll stop bothering you now..
8^) Good luck with whatever you set up.

- Mike N3LI -