I've also seen "messenger line" or more often "messenger wire" used to
describe the steel wire that supports such things as telephone cables
between poles and mains power service drops from the pole to a building.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

John Ferrell wrote:
I'd never heard of a messenger rope. Sounds interesting. How is the
messenger rope secured to the antenna line? WB8YKH

More properly "messenger line".

This seems to be a difficult item to search so I will attempt to an
explanation...

When two ships meet at sea and wish to transfer items from one ship to
another (think mail, movies, etc.) they must keep a safe distance
between them. The accepted procedure is to throw or otherwise launch a
small rope or line from one to the other. Then a larger line is
attached to the small line and pulled back to the originating ship.
There may be several iterations of this until a line strong enough to
carry the ultimate load is in place. The first line (and may be the
interim lines) that were used to get the final line in place are
refferred to as messenger lines.

I sometimes use a weighted piece of fishing line as the meesenger and
tie the string/rope/wire in place to hang an antenna. It saves a lot
of snagging if you streamline the attaching knot with a bit of tape.

If anyone manages to figure out a search that provides useful results
for "messenger line" I would appreciate the enlightenment!

John Ferrell W8CCW
Beware of the dopeler effect (pronounced dope-ler).
That's where bad ideas seem good if they come at you
fast enough.

Roy Lewallen wrote:
I've also seen "messenger line" or more often "messenger wire" used to
describe the steel wire that supports such things as telephone cables
between poles and mains power service drops from the pole to a building.

I got a bunch of free 75 ohm coax from the TV cable
company that has a messenger wire. It seems to me to
be for strain relief to keep the coax from breaking
from wind or ice.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

John while what you describe is correct, it is not the type of messanger
rope, line, or cable that is being thought of.

In the antenna case, it is a strong rope that is streached between two
supports. To this rope is attached a lighter antenna. Say you only have
some number 20 wire and want to make an 80 meter dipole. If you string the
# 20 wire and attach some rg-8 type coax to the middle of it, it would
probalby not stay up very long. Also you would have to have a large drop in
the middle as you can not streachit very tight without breaking.
If you have a strong rope you can tape and use some ultraviolet resistant
wire ties to attach the antenna wire to the rope and then pull it up
tighter.

I have a tower up 60 feet with several beams on it. While it may not be the
recommended practice, I came off the tower around the 40 foot level and ran
the coax (4 coax +rotor cable) to the house about 50 feet away. I used a
piece of guy wire and taped and ty wrapped the cable to the the guy wire. I
pulled this guy wire tight enough to keep the cable off the ground. This
particular guy wire is not one of the supporting guys, but just a 'messanger
wire' to hold up the coax with out strssing the coax.


OK, I got it!
I usually use Nylon line (home improvement store, about 150 pound
test) for that purpose. You can sure do a lot of experimenting for
very little money that way.

Antennas can be a lot of fun....
John Ferrell W8CCW
Beware of the dopeler effect (pronounced dope-ler).
That's where bad ideas seem good if they come at you
fast enough.

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:34:40 -0700 (PDT), WB8YKH
wrote:

There is much literature on the inverted "V" antenna but I've found
nothing on a "V" Dipole Antenna. Can someone help me with resources
or information on installation and effects of a "V" Dipole? In my
current location I am unable to raise my center point much more than
15 feet off ground. However I can raise the endpoints 30+ feet.
Before I go through much effort on the install I'd like to know what
kind of performance I can expect. Thank you for your insights!

73
WB8YKH

My first thoughts are that instead of a 75 ohm antenna, you will now
have one closer to 50 ohms. It may have an unnoticeable loss figure
due to the shortened length between the ends of the antenna, and if
you tune it to a higher frequency (tune, not trimmed in length) you
may find it more of NVIS, for example, a 40 meter v-pole might be
almost equivalent to a dipole, but on 15 meters, it would point strait
up.

Question: can you pull the legs through an insulator or something so
you have hanging legs instead of a drooping center?


_________| |_________
| |
| |
| |



--
73 for now
Buck, N4PGW

www.lumpuckeroo.com

"Small - broadband - efficient: pick any two."

"Buck" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:34:40 -0700 (PDT), WB8YKH
wrote:

There is much literature on the inverted "V" antenna but I've found
nothing on a "V" Dipole Antenna. Can someone help me with resources
or information on installation and effects of a "V" Dipole? In my
current location I am unable to raise my center point much more than
15 feet off ground. However I can raise the endpoints 30+ feet.
Before I go through much effort on the install I'd like to know what
kind of performance I can expect. Thank you for your insights!

73
WB8YKH

My first thoughts are that instead of a 75 ohm antenna, you will now
have one closer to 50 ohms. It may have an unnoticeable loss figure
due to the shortened length between the ends of the antenna, and if
you tune it to a higher frequency (tune, not trimmed in length) you
may find it more of NVIS, for example, a 40 meter v-pole might be
almost equivalent to a dipole, but on 15 meters, it would point strait
up.

Question: can you pull the legs through an insulator or something so
you have hanging legs instead of a drooping center?


_________| |_________
| |
| |
| |



--
73 for now
Buck, N4PGW

www.lumpuckeroo.com

"Small - broadband - efficient: pick any two."

If you have horizontal room, you can do somewhat better. Put insulators on
the ends, and pull out the ends so they go down at 45 degrees, or something,
rather than hanging straight down. I am doing this on a 75 meter dipole that
is supported by two 80 foot trees that are 60 feet apart. The antenna looks
somethging like an upside down W.

Tam/WB2TT

[several references to]
.... "messenger line"...

Hotwire fencing. The stuff that we put around horse
pastures. For intended use, it connects to a hi volt,
low current, pulsed source.

There is a version of the 'wire' that is very fine gauge wire,
perhaps 28 ga or smaller, woven into nylon webbing.
You can tie it in knots, put a lot of tension
on it, without bothering the conductor.

Built in messenger line with the element.


Lumpy n0eq

You Played on Lawrence Welk?
Yes but no blue notes. Just blue hairs.

www.LumpyGuitar.net

On Mar 22, 11:29*am, "Tam" wrote:
"Buck" wrote in message

...





On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:34:40 -0700 (PDT), WB8YKH
wrote:

There is much literature on the inverted "V" antenna but I've found
nothing on a "V" Dipole Antenna. *Can someone help me with resources
or information on installation and effects of a "V" Dipole? *In my
current location I am unable to raise my center point much more than
15 feet off ground. *However I can raise the endpoints 30+ feet.
Before I go through much effort on the install I'd like to know what
kind of performance I can expect. *Thank you for your insights!

73
WB8YKH

My first thoughts are that instead of a 75 ohm antenna, you will now
have one closer to 50 ohms. *It may have an unnoticeable loss figure
due to the shortened length between the ends of the antenna, and if
you tune it to a higher frequency (tune, not trimmed in length) you
may find it more of NVIS, for example, a 40 meter v-pole might be
almost equivalent to a dipole, but on 15 meters, it would point strait
up.

Question: *can you pull the legs through an insulator or something so
you have hanging legs instead of a drooping center?

* * _________| |_________
* *| * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * |
* *| * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * |
* *| * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * |

--
73 for now
Buck, N4PGW

www.lumpuckeroo.com

"Small - broadband - efficient: pick any two."

If you have horizontal room, you can do somewhat better. Put insulators on
the ends, and pull out the ends so they go down at 45 degrees, or something,
rather than hanging straight down. I am doing this on a 75 meter dipole that
is supported by two 80 foot trees that are 60 feet apart. The antenna looks
somethging like an upside down W.

Tam/WB2TT- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

N4PGW and WB2TT - Your responses were very interesting to me and
certainly worth my try. Yes, with my low center feed on the bazooka
coax dipole I can drop the ends to form an "M" shape. Do you know how
the radiation pattern would be effected? WB8YKH

"WB8YKH" wrote in message
...
On Mar 22, 11:29 am, "Tam" wrote:
"Buck" wrote in message

...





On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:34:40 -0700 (PDT), WB8YKH
wrote:

There is much literature on the inverted "V" antenna but I've found
nothing on a "V" Dipole Antenna. Can someone help me with resources
or information on installation and effects of a "V" Dipole? In my
current location I am unable to raise my center point much more than
15 feet off ground. However I can raise the endpoints 30+ feet.
Before I go through much effort on the install I'd like to know what
kind of performance I can expect. Thank you for your insights!

73
WB8YKH

My first thoughts are that instead of a 75 ohm antenna, you will now
have one closer to 50 ohms. It may have an unnoticeable loss figure
due to the shortened length between the ends of the antenna, and if
you tune it to a higher frequency (tune, not trimmed in length) you
may find it more of NVIS, for example, a 40 meter v-pole might be
almost equivalent to a dipole, but on 15 meters, it would point strait
up.

Question: can you pull the legs through an insulator or something so
you have hanging legs instead of a drooping center?

_________| |_________
| |
| |
| |

--
73 for now
Buck, N4PGW

www.lumpuckeroo.com

"Small - broadband - efficient: pick any two."

If you have horizontal room, you can do somewhat better. Put insulators on
the ends, and pull out the ends so they go down at 45 degrees, or
something,
rather than hanging straight down. I am doing this on a 75 meter dipole
that
is supported by two 80 foot trees that are 60 feet apart. The antenna
looks
somethging like an upside down W.

Tam/WB2TT- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

N4PGW and WB2TT - Your responses were very interesting to me and
certainly worth my try. Yes, with my low center feed on the bazooka
coax dipole I can drop the ends to form an "M" shape. Do you know how
the radiation pattern would be effected? WB8YKH

I haven't tried it with the ends hanging straight down, but mine is the same
length as a regular dipole. EZNEC plot looks like a dipoles.

Tam

On Mar 20, 1:34 pm, WB8YKH wrote:
There is much literature on the inverted "V" antenna but I've found
nothing on a "V" Dipole Antenna. Can someone help me with resources
or information on installation and effects of a "V" Dipole? In my
current location I am unable to raise my center point much more than
15 feet off ground. However I can raise the endpoints 30+ feet.
Before I go through much effort on the install I'd like to know what
kind of performance I can expect. Thank you for your insights!

73
WB8YKH

Don't sweat the low center. I just built one a few days ago and it
worked better than any Inv Vee I've built or used. The reason is the
ends are higher than lower as they would be on an inv vee, therefore
the part of the antenna where it exhibits the highest voltage is
highest above ground helping to eliominate ground losses and increase
efficiency.

You're actually fortunate to have such a nice way to mount the
antenna, in these postage-stamp-size city lots we're lucky to be able
to fit an inv vee, which works, but performs barely OK .

Me thinks you're going to truly love it's performance.

73

Joe Carr had an article on a "W" dipole, with the centre low.
HH

"WB8YKH" wrote in message
...
There is much literature on the inverted "V" antenna but I've found
nothing on a "V" Dipole Antenna. Can someone help me with resources
or information on installation and effects of a "V" Dipole? In my
current location I am unable to raise my center point much more than
15 feet off ground. However I can raise the endpoints 30+ feet.
Before I go through much effort on the install I'd like to know what
kind of performance I can expect. Thank you for your insights!

73
WB8YKH