On May 5, 10:19 am, Cecil Moore wrote:
John Passaneau wrote:
So I can say that a phased hamstick vertical on 80m with a poor ground is
also about 20db down from a full size dipole at 40’.

It all makes good sense. The best 75m mobile antennas
are about 10 dB down from a 1/2WL dipole. The hamstick
is about 10 dB down from the best 75m mobile antennas.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

It's the lack of a decent radial system which makes me
look at it in a negative manner..
It's quite possible for the short vertical to outplay the
low dipole for DX, but... I don't see it happening with
only 2 radials and low to the ground.
The hamstick would actually work better mounted on a
vehicle than it would in that 2 radial scenario I bet.
So it's more the ground radial problem, rather than
the short radiator itself.
On 40m, my mobile outplays my 35-40 ft high dipole
to DX. But, I don't know if that would be the case with
two low radials, vs the usually better RF ground that
my vehicles provide.
With a low vertical on 80m, two radials ain't gonna
get it done as far as avoiding ground loss.
And the short vertical makes things even more critical.

For NVIS use, the low dipole would *smoke* the short
vertical with two radials. I've run low 80m dipoles 5-10 ft
off the ground when camping, and still had fairly
decent results to regional stations.
MK