W3CQH wrote:
"W3CQH" wrote in message
. ..
Sorry for the repost - I was trying to get the visual dimensions correct!

The following represents my roof and the tree in my backyard.

The length of the roof is 90ft,
it is 15ft from the center line to
each edge, (roughly 30ft),
height of roof is approx 22ft at the
peak and 10ft at the gutter edge..

The tree is approximately 35ft high.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
x
O x
x
x
x -------------------------------------------x
x
x
xxxxx x O x
x O x xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxx
TREE

My question is: do you think it would be better to run a configuration as
say a Windom from the tree to the points on the roof (the points can be
moved) or just a simple inverted "V" and the angle of the "V" in any case
is
going to be very narrow. I would be feeding either one via some Rg8x
approximately 65ft.

I would like to be able to use the ant from 160m - 6m if possible, I will
be
feeding it via a tuner, and the wire is going to be #26 enameled as it
can't
be seen.

Comments please.

Guess I'll reply to this one! ;^)

How much total length will you have? A Windom for 160 needs 260 feet.
I used a windom for a while because it was convenient, the short leg
dropped the coax directly down to my shack window. The antenna performed
okay. Depending on your lot size, you might not be able to run a full
160 meter version. would 80 meters be an okay bottom limit? Even if you
had to let the ends drop a bit, though tuning (short vs long leg) will
be a little different.

Inverted v might also be a little difficult. You might want to go for a
plain dipole.

I'm pretty dense today - getting over a nasty head cold, so I'm going to
ask a few questions.

You just have the one tree?

If so, where are you planning to hang the other end of the dipole.
Certainly an inverted V is going to need something in the middle.

With the tree at 35 feet, what is the maximum height you can hang a wire at?

It doesn't sound like a real optimum site, but don't worry, we can get
you something that will work okay.

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

Just some thoughts...

That #26 wire is going to be a problem no matter what type antenna you
end up with. For the longer antennas, HF, etc, it's strength is going
to be sort of limiting. It is sort of difficult to see, but it's far
from being invisible. So, if you are in one of 'those' neighborhoods
that don't like 'visible' antennas there is another choice instead of
an invisible antenna. That's using something that is very visible,
but not normally associated with antennas. The first thing that comes
to mind is a flag pole. Certainly 'do-able', and certainly not going
to be 'simple' if it covers more than one 'chunk' of HF. The 'simple'
way of 'curing' that sort of thingy is to throw money at it, to some
ridiculous point. (Wonder how 'they'ed feel about a 'commemorative'
Atlas missile monument in your yard?)

I think you might do some thinking about what's the longest, sort of
straight, 'run' you can manage using the roof ridge and tree. A few
'bends' in that 'straight' run are allowable, sort of. And then
consider various ways of 'loading' that run. One option might be a
'short' but 'long' inverted 'L', a "lazy-L"? Not exactly the best,
has it's own set of 'problems', but if it works, who cares...much.
Having 'been there, done that' at at one time or another, I really
wish you luck.
- 'Doc

wrote:
The first thing that comes to mind is a flag pole.

A 22' flagpole (with buried radials) can be base-fed
with an SG-230 (for instance) to achieve reasonable
performance on 40m-10m.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
wrote:
The first thing that comes to mind is a flag pole.

A 22' flagpole (with buried radials) can be base-fed
with an SG-230 (for instance) to achieve reasonable
performance on 40m-10m.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

I used one of those for several years in a "restricted" neighborhood.
Performance was not bad. I used a manually switched coil/capacitor
combination mounted at the base in a wooden box obtained from the local
beekeeper supply house. While the box was a little large, it was
inexpensive, and held up well in weather with a new paint job every 2-3
years.

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
wrote:
The first thing that comes to mind is a flag pole.

A 22' flagpole (with buried radials) can be base-fed
with an SG-230 (for instance) to achieve reasonable
performance on 40m-10m.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Thanks Cecil, but I can't have any flag poles. 73's

W3CQH wrote:
"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
wrote:
The first thing that comes to mind is a flag pole.
A 22' flagpole (with buried radials) can be base-fed
with an SG-230 (for instance) to achieve reasonable
performance on 40m-10m.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Thanks Cecil, but I can't have any flag poles. 73's


Good lord, what kind of neighborhood won't allow a flagpole?
Unpatriotic creeps? Sounds like you need to get PRB-1 in your corner.
Essentially, they cannot stop you from erecting *something*, you have
the right to an antenna. You might not get something really great, but
they will need to accomodate to some extent. A flagpole antenna is one
of those compromises.


- 73 de Mike N3LI -

Michael Coslo wrote:
Good lord, what kind of neighborhood won't allow a flagpole?
Unpatriotic creeps? Sounds like you need to get PRB-1 in your corner.

Here's what one ham did about his neighborhood
antenna restrictions. :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC_EeWSKJII
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Cecil Moore wrote:
Michael Coslo wrote:
Good lord, what kind of neighborhood won't allow a flagpole?
Unpatriotic creeps? Sounds like you need to get PRB-1 in your corner.

Here's what one ham did about his neighborhood
antenna restrictions. :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC_EeWSKJII

Cecil:

After viewing that video, I was offered this for consideration of my
viewing pleasu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJpALdxzFzA&NR=1

And, I enjoyed it also ... GRIN

P.S. Isn't there a mental health program for old complaining cows, such
as those featured in the antenna clip? wink

Warm regards,
JS

In article ,
Michael Coslo wrote:

Thanks Cecil, but I can't have any flag poles. 73's

Good lord, what kind of neighborhood won't allow a flagpole?
Unpatriotic creeps?

A "planned" community, with a strict set of CC&Rs, enforced by a
homeowner's association whose board has an extremely anal attitude
towards any variation at all in the community's planned appearance
scheme?

Sounds like you need to get PRB-1 in your corner.
Essentially, they cannot stop you from erecting *something*, you have
the right to an antenna.

PRB-1 applies only to governmental restrictions (e.g. city and county
zoning rules).

Unfortunately, it does not apply to CC&Rs (codes, covenants, and
restrictions) which are written into the title of a home or other
piece of property. Legally, these are part of the contract of sale of
the property - they're a private agreement between seller and buyer,
and are not implemented or enforced by the local government.

Hams have asked the FCC to rule that PRB-1 overrides such CC&Rs. The
FCC has declined to do so, on the grounds that it doesn't have the
legal authority - Congress *could* have written/extended PRB-1 to
override such CC&Rs, but chose not to do so.

See http://www.eham.net/articles/16368 for one story on this aspect of
the problem.

Unfortunately for hams, antenna-restrictive CC&Rs are quite common in
newer communities and are becoming even more so. I've heard that in
some areas, they're almost (but not quite) a legal fact-of-life, in
that lenders won't provide financing for the construction of the
community in the first place unless the builder includes a fairly
stiff set of CC&Rs in the plans (to "preserve the aesthetics and value
of the community" I suppose).

I believe I read an article a few months ago about legislation which
specifically overrides CC&Rs to the extent of allowing the flying of a
United States flag, but I can't recall the details... and I don't
think it would necessarily have allowed a long vertical flagpole.

There *is* one possible "out" with regard to antennas and CC&Rs,
although it does not involve PRB-1. Instead, it uses the OTARD
(Over-The-Air Reception Devices) rule (47 C.F.R. Section 1.4000),
which specifically allows the installation of television, direct-
broadcast-satellite, and "fixed wireless" antennas. This rule *does*
override CC&R restrictions, as well as local zoning restrictions.

It's not unlimited - mast height is limited to 12 feet, dish size is
limited to 1 metre, the override applies only to antennas installed in
an "exclusive use" part of the property (i.e. not in shared areas),
and there can be *some* restrictions on placement in limited cases.
In general, though, you're allowed to put up a TV antenna, and cannot
be hit with restrictions which materially increase your costs in doing
so or make the job significantly more difficult.

The rule doesn't apply to ham antennas. However, there's at least one
company (Force 12, I believe), which makes an antenna that can serve a
dual purpose - it's a shortened, center-fed-and-loaded (I think) HF
vertical, and also can serve as a TV reception antenna.

Another possible option would be to put up an *insulated* 12-foot mast
pipe with a standard TV log-periodic antenna at the top, run a set
of radials along the roof, and feed it at the base with an antenna
tuner. You might add some switchable base-loading coils, or even
figure out some way to relay-jumper the log-periodic at the top to the
mast so that it acts as a capacity hat.

As long as you *do* use the antenna for TV reception, I believe it'd
be covered by the OTARD preemption, even if you also use it
occasionally for ham-band use. [Just remember to disconnect the TV
feed system before keying up!!!]

See http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html for details.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

Dave Platt wrote:
In article ,
Michael Coslo wrote:

Thanks Cecil, but I can't have any flag poles. 73's

Good lord, what kind of neighborhood won't allow a flagpole?
Unpatriotic creeps?

A "planned" community, with a strict set of CC&Rs, enforced by a
homeowner's association whose board has an extremely anal attitude
towards any variation at all in the community's planned appearance
scheme?


Time to find a different place to live in. I live in a modern
development in which the only restrictions are that you keep the house
presentable, and the lawn mowed. There are some restrictions on tower
height and fall radius, but I could put one up.

Homeowners association = evil, bad, ptui!

Right there is the first clue that people shouldn't even consider living
in a neighborhood.


Really, there are other options.


- 73 de Mike N3LI -