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#1
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Does a HF vertical antenna need a balun?
Hi All,
I keep reading on various websites and in various documents that HF verticals should have a "line isolator" (a choke/current balun) located near the antenna's feedpoint to prevent coax feedline re- radiation, disruption of the antenna's radiation pattern, sub-optimal vertical performance, and RFI in the shack. My question is this: just how important is a choke balun when using a ground-mounted HF (for 40M) quarter-wave vertical antenna with 32 quarter-wave buried radials? And if it is important, why wouldn't the choke be placed at the shack's input, so that the coax's outer shield could act as another radial? (I had always assumed that a vertical didn't need a balun at all, and that only dipoles used them. Am I wrong about this?). Thanks! Nick |
#2
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Does a HF vertical antenna need a balun?
On Jun 24, 7:18*am, Nick wrote:
Hi All, * I keep reading on various websites and in various documents that HF verticals should have a "line isolator" (a choke/current balun) located near the antenna's feedpoint to prevent coax feedline re- radiation, disruption of the antenna's radiation pattern, sub-optimal vertical performance, and RFI in the shack. *My question is this: just how important is a choke balun when using a ground-mounted HF (for 40M) quarter-wave vertical antenna with 32 quarter-wave buried radials? *And if it is important, why wouldn't the choke be placed at the shack's input, so that the coax's outer shield could act as another radial? (I had always assumed that a vertical didn't need a balun at all, and that only dipoles used them. *Am I wrong about this?). Thanks! Nick I think line isolator is slightly different from balun. Here line isolator would be necessary for lightening protection etc and hence better kept at antenna base. Balun is for converting a balanced structure like dipole antenna to unbalanced structure like coax. Since monopole antenna is unbalanced structure it does not need balun at its input. Amit |
#3
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Does a HF vertical antenna need a balun?
wrote in message ... On Jun 24, 7:18 am, Nick wrote: Hi All, I keep reading on various websites and in various documents that HF verticals should have a "line isolator" (a choke/current balun) located near the antenna's feedpoint to prevent coax feedline re- radiation, disruption of the antenna's radiation pattern, sub-optimal vertical performance, and RFI in the shack. My question is this: just how important is a choke balun when using a ground-mounted HF (for 40M) quarter-wave vertical antenna with 32 quarter-wave buried radials? And if it is important, why wouldn't the choke be placed at the shack's input, so that the coax's outer shield could act as another radial? (I had always assumed that a vertical didn't need a balun at all, and that only dipoles used them. Am I wrong about this?). Thanks! Nick I think line isolator is slightly different from balun. Here line isolator would be necessary for lightening protection etc and hence better kept at antenna base. Balun is for converting a balanced structure like dipole antenna to unbalanced structure like coax. Since monopole antenna is unbalanced structure it does not need balun at its input. A "line isolator" (a choke/current balun) will provide no lightening protection. What is being talked about is a choke to prevent currents from flowing on the outer of the coax. It is not a balun in the purest sense, but it does stop unbalanced currents from flowing on the coax. The problem with an HF vertical is that the ground plane will never be anywhere near prefect, so it will not be possible to feed with coax without some current flowing on the outer. I guess the only problem with putting the choke at the antenna base will be pickup onto the outer as is crosses the groundpalne. so I can see the idea of putting the choke at the edge of the GP might be better. I guess it either suck it and see, or try to simulate it with NEC. 73 Jeff |
#4
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Does a HF vertical antenna need a balun?
On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 19:18:18 -0700 (PDT), Nick
wrote: Hi All, I keep reading on various websites and in various documents that HF verticals should have a "line isolator" (a choke/current balun) located near the antenna's feedpoint to prevent coax feedline re- radiation, disruption of the antenna's radiation pattern, sub-optimal vertical performance, and RFI in the shack. My question is this: just how important is a choke balun when using a ground-mounted HF (for 40M) quarter-wave vertical antenna with 32 quarter-wave buried radials? And if it is important, why wouldn't the choke be placed at the shack's input, so that the coax's outer shield could act as another radial? (I had always assumed that a vertical didn't need a balun at all, and that only dipoles used them. Am I wrong about this?). --- No. http://www.electronics-tutorials.com...nna-basics.htm JF |
#5
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Does a HF vertical antenna need a balun?
On 24 Jun, 03:18, Nick wrote:
Hi All, * I keep reading on various websites and in various documents that HF verticals should have a "line isolator" (a choke/current balun) located near the antenna's feedpoint to prevent coax feedline re- radiation, disruption of the antenna's radiation pattern, sub-optimal vertical performance, and RFI in the shack. *My question is this: just how important is a choke balun when using a ground-mounted HF (for 40M) quarter-wave vertical antenna with 32 quarter-wave buried radials? *And if it is important, why wouldn't the choke be placed at the shack's input, so that the coax's outer shield could act as another radial? (I had always assumed that a vertical didn't need a balun at all, and that only dipoles used them. *Am I wrong about this?). Thanks! Nick A balun isn't required. Leon |
#6
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Does a HF vertical antenna need a balun?
In message , Jeff
writes wrote in message ... On Jun 24, 7:18 am, Nick wrote: Hi All, I keep reading on various websites and in various documents that HF verticals should have a "line isolator" (a choke/current balun) located near the antenna's feedpoint to prevent coax feedline re- radiation, disruption of the antenna's radiation pattern, sub-optimal vertical performance, and RFI in the shack. My question is this: just how important is a choke balun when using a ground-mounted HF (for 40M) quarter-wave vertical antenna with 32 quarter-wave buried radials? And if it is important, why wouldn't the choke be placed at the shack's input, so that the coax's outer shield could act as another radial? (I had always assumed that a vertical didn't need a balun at all, and that only dipoles used them. Am I wrong about this?). Thanks! Nick I think line isolator is slightly different from balun. Here line isolator would be necessary for lightening protection etc and hence better kept at antenna base. Balun is for converting a balanced structure like dipole antenna to unbalanced structure like coax. Since monopole antenna is unbalanced structure it does not need balun at its input. A "line isolator" (a choke/current balun) will provide no lightening protection. What is being talked about is a choke to prevent currents from flowing on the outer of the coax. It is not a balun in the purest sense, but it does stop unbalanced currents from flowing on the coax. It's not a balun in ANY sense of the word. Some of the manufacturers of the 9:1 isolation/semi-matching transformers (essentially for listening only) persist in calling these 'baluns'. But baluns they ain't. Unfortunately, 'balun' has become a generic word for many types of RF transformer (especially those wound on ferrite). It's a bit like calling all vacuum cleaners 'Hoovers' - which is what we do, at least in the UK. -- Ian |
#7
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Does a HF vertical antenna need a balun?
In message
, Leon writes On 24 Jun, 03:18, Nick wrote: Hi All, * I keep reading on various websites and in various documents that HF verticals should have a "line isolator" (a choke/current balun) located near the antenna's feedpoint to prevent coax feedline re- radiation, disruption of the antenna's radiation pattern, sub-optimal vertical performance, and RFI in the shack. *My question is this: just how important is a choke balun when using a ground-mounted HF (for 40M) quarter-wave vertical antenna with 32 quarter-wave buried radials? *And if it is important, why wouldn't the choke be placed at the shack's input, so that the coax's outer shield could act as another radial? (I had always assumed that a vertical didn't need a balun at all, and that only dipoles used them. *Am I wrong about this?). Thanks! Nick A balun isn't required. Leon With this type of antenna, it certainly is not common practice to choke/isolate the coax, especially the coax braid can be grounded at the antenna feedpoint and in the shack, and possibly at some intermediate points along its length. It wouldn't do any harm to use one, but it probably wouldn't do very much. -- Ian |
#8
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Does a HF vertical antenna need a balun?
On Jun 24, 8:09*am, Ian Jackson
wrote: In message , Leon writes On 24 Jun, 03:18, Nick wrote: Hi All, * I keep reading on various websites and in various documents that HF verticals should have a "line isolator" (a choke/current balun) located near the antenna's feedpoint to prevent coax feedline re- radiation, disruption of the antenna's radiation pattern, sub-optimal vertical performance, and RFI in the shack. *My question is this: just how important is a choke balun when using a ground-mounted HF (for 40M) quarter-wave vertical antenna with 32 quarter-wave buried radials? *And if it is important, why wouldn't the choke be placed at the shack's input, so that the coax's outer shield could act as another radial? (I had always assumed that a vertical didn't need a balun at all, and that only dipoles used them. *Am I wrong about this?). Thanks! Nick A balun isn't required. Leon With this type of antenna, it certainly is not common practice to choke/isolate the coax, especially the coax braid can be grounded at the antenna feedpoint and in the shack, and possibly at some intermediate points along its length. It wouldn't do any harm to use one, but it probably wouldn't do very much. -- Ian- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Thanks for all the great responses guys! That is exactly what I had thought, that since the outer coax braid is grounded at the antenna, and at the shack, and (in my case) at the center with a lightening protector, then I just couldn't figure out why some antenna companies, such as reliable DX engineering with their DXE-VFCC H05-A Vertical Feedline Current Choke, strongly recommend such a line isolator for verticals. A direct quote from DX Engineering's Website: "2/5 kW Vertical Feedline Current Choke If your antenna SWR is already low and you wish to reduce feedline radiation and improve reception, a Feedline Current Choke is recommended. Adding a DX Engineering Feedline Current Choke at the base of a vertical antenna will substantially reduce unwanted feedline radiation (RFI), reducing the need for improved station grounding. When quarter-wave antennas are constructed over a good radial system, they have a feedpoint impedance of about 36 ohms. When they are constructed over less than a good radial-system there is a loss introduced into the feed system that adds to the 36-ohm figure. This improves the SWR but there is a loss in the efficiency of the antenna, signals transmitted and received have a higher take-off angle and often there is current introduced on to the feedline. With a ground-mounted quarter-wave vertical, regardless of the radial situation, but especially with poor radial systems, the feedline can become part of the radial system, causing RFI and poor antenna performance. By using a VFCC at the feedpoint, the feedline is effectively de-coupled from the antenna system, preventing interaction with the radial system, improving antenna efficiency. You may notice improved bandwidth as well. The Advantages of Using a VFCC: Prevents unwanted RFI by eliminating feedline current and radiation All power goes to the antenna, improving efficiency Reduces noise or unwanted signals picked-up by the feedline Overcome a less than optimal ground system Bracket isolates the VFCC case from ground for best de-coupling" -Nick |
#9
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Does a HF vertical antenna need a balun?
On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:10:31 -0700 (PDT), Nick
wrote: Hi Nick, In response to the ad-copy, I would make some points: When quarter-wave antennas are constructed over a good radial system, they have a feedpoint impedance of about 36 ohms. When they are constructed over less than a good radial-system there is a loss introduced into the feed system that adds to the 36-ohm figure. This improves the SWR but there is a loss in the efficiency of the antenna, This is good, as far as it gets to this point, but... signals transmitted and received have a higher take-off angle and often there is current introduced on to the feedline. Take-off angle is dictated to the quality of ground 5 to 10 wavelengths AWAY (and further) from the antenna. You could, if you so choose, build 120 radials out 20 wavelengths to achieve their implied claim of radials contributing to lower take-off angles. With a ground-mounted quarter-wave vertical, regardless of the radial situation, but especially with poor radial systems, the feedline can become part of the radial system, causing RFI and poor antenna performance. For a transmitter, it is unlikely that the listener could tell the difference between operating into that "poor radial system" and adding the a vfcc. By using a VFCC at the feedpoint, the feedline is effectively de-coupled from the antenna system, preventing interaction with the radial system, improving antenna efficiency. You may notice improved bandwidth as well. This contains a contradiction when it gets to the "improved bandwidth." Presuming that means wider, it then means more loss. More loss would come from NOT using the vfcc (or why buy one?). The Advantages of Using a VFCC: Prevents unwanted RFI by eliminating feedline current and radiation All power goes to the antenna, improving efficiency Uh-huh. Again, will the listener be able to tell? A radiating feedline might boost their gain - who knows? Reduces noise or unwanted signals picked-up by the feedline Overcome a less than optimal ground system Bracket isolates the VFCC case from ground for best de-coupling" The noise pickup is the more likely benefit (along with the remote ground - tied into the service ground as required by code). House noise can travel down the outer portion of the shield to then develop across the load of the antenna, and then wrap around to travel back inside the coax to the receiver. A choke will snub this path and the remote ground will lower the resistance. The divider action suppresses local noise. The same benefit can be obtained from a $25 purchase of bulk ferrite beads (about 50 of them) which are fitted over a one foot length of RG-58 (or the distal end of your feedline). 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC |
#10
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Does a HF vertical antenna need a balun?
Jeff wrote:
I guess the only problem with putting the choke at the antenna base will be pickup onto the outer as is crosses the groundpalne. so I can see the idea of putting the choke at the edge of the GP might be better. Get the best of both worlds. Put one choke at the antenna base and one more 1/4WL down the feedline which will be close to your "edge of the GP". -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com |
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