Censored post ...
 

Cecil Moore wrote:
Gene Fuller wrote:
Unless "John Smith" has a "certificated for use in the amateur
service" 5 kW amp (highly unlikely that one could find such a critter)
or "constructed or modified" the 5 kW amp then it is not legal for
amateur use at any power setting.

"Modifications" are trivially easy.

Like..

The front panel has been modified to add a placard indicating that
operation at more than XXX plate current is not permitted when operating
in amateur bands.

And that whole "offered for sale" kind of thing is a huge regulatory
morass, with a lot of "guidance" from local FCC officials on what might
or might not prompt more attention. It's one thing to have an obscure
ham oriented website and sell widgets obviously intended only for hams..
another to have a big online-store and sell obviously commercial
products with a "wink, wink" disclaimer about only selling to hams, when
in actuality, anyone with a credit card can get it.

The FCC enforcement logs are full of things like folks are selling
"experimenter" video transmitters, but doing no substantive validation
of the buyer. Ditto the stores selling various and sundry CB equipment.

Censored post ...
 

Cecil Moore wrote:
Gene Fuller wrote:
Unless "John Smith" has a "certificated for use in the amateur
service" 5 kW amp (highly unlikely that one could find such a critter)
or "constructed or modified" the 5 kW amp then it is not legal for
amateur use at any power setting.

"Modifications" are trivially easy.

Like..

The front panel has been modified to add a placard indicating that
operation at more than XXX plate current is not permitted when operating
in amateur bands.

And that whole "offered for sale" kind of thing is a huge regulatory
morass, with a lot of "guidance" from local FCC officials on what might
or might not prompt more attention. It's one thing to have an obscure
ham oriented website and sell widgets obviously intended only for hams..
another to have a big online-store and sell obviously commercial
products with a "wink, wink" disclaimer about only selling to hams, when
in actuality, anyone with a credit card can get it.

The FCC enforcement logs are full of things like folks are selling
"experimenter" video transmitters, but doing no substantive validation
of the buyer. Ditto the stores selling various and sundry CB equipment.

Censored post ...
 

Gene Fuller wrote:

...
Why stop at 97.313? Try 97.315 and 97.317 as well.

Unless "John Smith" has a "certificated for use in the amateur service"
5 kW amp (highly unlikely that one could find such a critter) or
"constructed or modified" the 5 kW amp then it is not legal for amateur
use at any power setting.

73,
Gene
W4SZ

Gene:

Skeptical, confused ...

Perhaps I can help with this link:

http://www.assemblywizard.fr33webhost.com/

Those 8 x QB4/1100GA "JUGS" at ~5.6KV @ 1.6 AMPS, 200 Watts DRIVE,
OUTPUT = ~5KW

That is not max output, the amp could have an increase in PV and Drive
to a theortical max output of ~7KW ...

I have tapped down on the PV, drive and even the current to the
filaments which are at about 85-90% of specs ... this amp is not in
everyday use--but then, you already knew that.

My son now has the 5KW "factory made" russian amp I used to keep. At a
later date I may have him take some .jpg pictures and send them to me to
load up to the URL ...

Now, off to the doctor ...

Regards,
JS

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Jim Lux wrote:
... It's one thing to have an obscure
ham oriented website and sell widgets obviously intended only for hams..
another to have a big online-store and sell obviously commercial
products with a "wink, wink" disclaimer about only selling to hams, when
in actuality, anyone with a credit card can get it.

The FCC enforcement logs are full of things like folks are selling
"experimenter" video transmitters, but doing no substantive validation
of the buyer. Ditto the stores selling various and sundry CB equipment.

You forgot to mention purchasing it from outside our borders, perhaps
Russia, for example.

You forgot purchasing the parts and constructing it yourself, again,
Russian parts/plans are the cheapest ... (my city has the furtherest
inland seaport, yanno ...)

Now, what am I forgetting?

Really, I have a doctors appt. at 11 am ... gotta go ... bbl

Regards,
JS

Censored post ...
 

Ed Cregger wrote:
"Gene Fuller" wrote in message
...
Bruce in alaska wrote:
In article ,
Cecil Moore wrote:

John Smith quoted someone:
"A 5 KW amplifier is not lawful for use under Part 97."
Back in the 60's, a ham friend of mine ran a
surplus AM transmitter capable of 10KW output.
However, he never adjusted his input power to
more than the legal 1KW limit.
Whom, ever "Someone" is, he isn't versed in 47CFR97, and doesn't
understand, or can't comprehend, the actual Rule that Part 97
operations are REQUIRED to operate under. Specifically Part
97.313. I wonder if "Said Person" has ever actually READ
47CFR90.313? Apparently NOT......

Why stop at 97.313? Try 97.315 and 97.317 as well.

Unless "John Smith" has a "certificated for use in the amateur service" 5
kW amp (highly unlikely that one could find such a critter) or
"constructed or modified" the 5 kW amp then it is not legal for amateur
use at any power setting.

73,
Gene
W4SZ


No, friend Gene. It doesn't work that way.

You do not have to have type certification for legal operation in the
amateur bands. You only have to have it if you SELL new amateur equipment in
the USA.

Home made gear, or converted gear from other services, is completely legal
in the USA. Always has been, hopefully always will be.

CB gear must be type certified for selling and for usage.

Again, amateurs are responsible for their RF emissions. The FCC could care
less about the type of gear you are using. In fact, if brand new amateur
gear that was compliant to type acceptance malfunctions and issues an out of
spec emission, YOU as a duly licensed amateur radio operator are held
responsible. Not the manufacturer.

Ed, NM2K



Ed,

Sorry you have such a problem with basic literacy.

I stand by exactly what I said.

An unmodified manufactured amp that is not "certificated" is not legal
for use in the US Amateur Service, regardless of where it was
manufactured. A constructed or modified amp is potentially legal if
operated within the output power rules.

Did you read something else?

73,
Gene
W4SZ

Censored post ...
 

In article
,
Jim Kelley wrote:

On Jul 29, 6:34*am, Cecil Moore wrote:
John Smith quoted someone:

*"A 5 KW amplifier is not lawful for use under Part 97."

Back in the 60's, a ham friend of mine ran a
surplus AM transmitter capable of 10KW output.
However, he never adjusted his input power to
more than the legal 1KW limit.
--
73, Cecil *http://www.w5dxp.com

Like you, I'm just an observer in all this, but it appears that Phil
Kane (the gentleman to whom "Mr. Smith" was lecturing) must have been
referring to the practice of using a 5 KW amp at its rated output on
the ham bands as being unlawful. You probably remember Phil from
r.r.a.p. He made his living as a practicing communications attorney
IIRC.

ac6xg

Phil Kane is a reTired FCC Attorney, that worked out of one of the
California Field Offices.

--
Bruce in alaska
add path after fast to reply

Censored post ...
 

In article
,
Gene Fuller wrote:

Ed Cregger wrote:
"Gene Fuller" wrote in message
...
Bruce in alaska wrote:
In article ,
Cecil Moore wrote:

John Smith quoted someone:
"A 5 KW amplifier is not lawful for use under Part 97."
Back in the 60's, a ham friend of mine ran a
surplus AM transmitter capable of 10KW output.
However, he never adjusted his input power to
more than the legal 1KW limit.
Whom, ever "Someone" is, he isn't versed in 47CFR97, and doesn't
understand, or can't comprehend, the actual Rule that Part 97
operations are REQUIRED to operate under. Specifically Part
97.313. I wonder if "Said Person" has ever actually READ
47CFR90.313? Apparently NOT......

Why stop at 97.313? Try 97.315 and 97.317 as well.

Unless "John Smith" has a "certificated for use in the amateur service" 5
kW amp (highly unlikely that one could find such a critter) or
"constructed or modified" the 5 kW amp then it is not legal for amateur
use at any power setting.

73,
Gene
W4SZ


No, friend Gene. It doesn't work that way.

You do not have to have type certification for legal operation in the
amateur bands. You only have to have it if you SELL new amateur equipment
in
the USA.

Home made gear, or converted gear from other services, is completely legal
in the USA. Always has been, hopefully always will be.

CB gear must be type certified for selling and for usage.

Again, amateurs are responsible for their RF emissions. The FCC could care
less about the type of gear you are using. In fact, if brand new amateur
gear that was compliant to type acceptance malfunctions and issues an out
of
spec emission, YOU as a duly licensed amateur radio operator are held
responsible. Not the manufacturer.

Ed, NM2K



Ed,

Sorry you have such a problem with basic literacy.

I stand by exactly what I said.

An unmodified manufactured amp that is not "certificated" is not legal
for use in the US Amateur Service, regardless of where it was
manufactured. A constructed or modified amp is potentially legal if
operated within the output power rules.

Did you read something else?

73,
Gene
W4SZ

Gene, It would depend on who you purchased your AMP from, and if it was
NEW at the time of purchase. If it was not "NEW" at the time of your
purchase, and you purchased it from another HAM, or another Ham owned it
at some previous time, then it is waived under 47CFRPart97.315(b)4,& 5,
and if you Modify your "NEW" Purchase, by drilling a hole somewhere in
the AMP, to add it to YOUR Station (Modification) they it is waived under
47CFR97.315(b)3(ii), as long as you don't "Modify" more than one AMP
per year, for your personal use. (47CFRPart97.315(a).

--
Bruce in alaska
add path after fast to reply

Censored post ...
 

Sorry you have such a problem with basic literacy.

I stand by exactly what I said.

An unmodified manufactured amp that is not "certificated" is not legal
for use in the US Amateur Service, regardless of where it was
manufactured. A constructed or modified amp is potentially legal if
operated within the output power rules.

Did you read something else?


There might be some wiggle room here... the relevant regulation:
97.315(a) Any external RF power amplifier (see § 2.815 of the FCC Rules)
manufactured or imported for use at an amateur radio station must be
certificated for use in the amateur service in accordance with subpart J
of part 2 of the FCC Rules. No amplifier capable of operation below 144
MHz may be constructed or modified by a non-amateur service licensee
without a grant of certification from the FCC.


OK.. parse it out..

"manufactured or imported for use at an amateur radio station" must

This means that it only applies for amplifiers intended for use at an
amateur station. If one manufactured an amplifier for use, say, in a RF
induction heating system, one wouldn't need to be certificated for that
use. (one might need certification for other reasons...) See, e.g.,
http://www.manitousys.com/media/pb3_manual.pdf.. They have a photo of
the back panel, and I don't see a FCC registration number there. (nor
does manitou show up in the FCC databases for authorization or grantee)

But, it's pretty clear that if that amp has a switch on the front
labeled, for instance, "80m band", then it has to be certificated for
use in amateur service.

(and, it's mighty tough to get a "certification for amateur service" if
it can do other things.



If one went to Amplifier Research (http://www.amplifiers.com/, for
instance, one could buy a general purpose RF amplifier. That wouldn't be
"manufactured or imported for use at an amateur station" so it wouldn't
need to be "certificated foruse in the amateur service".

here's a nice little room heater for you
http://www.arww-rfmicro.com/post/2500L.pdf

Censored post ...
 

Bruce in alaska wrote:


Gene, It would depend on who you purchased your AMP from, and if it was
NEW at the time of purchase. If it was not "NEW" at the time of your
purchase, and you purchased it from another HAM, or another Ham owned it
at some previous time, then it is waived under 47CFRPart97.315(b)4,& 5,
and if you Modify your "NEW" Purchase, by drilling a hole somewhere in
the AMP, to add it to YOUR Station (Modification) they it is waived under
47CFR97.315(b)3(ii), as long as you don't "Modify" more than one AMP
per year, for your personal use. (47CFRPart97.315(a).


Bruce,

Yes, I understand that.

My initial comment was directed at the growing theme in the messages,
not specifically expressed by you, that amateurs could legally use *any*
transmitter as long as output power rules were not violated.

It ain't necessarily so.

73,
Gene
W4SZ

Censored post ...
 

"Jim Lux" wrote in message
...

Sorry you have such a problem with basic literacy.

I stand by exactly what I said.

An unmodified manufactured amp that is not "certificated" is not legal
for use in the US Amateur Service, regardless of where it was
manufactured. A constructed or modified amp is potentially legal if
operated within the output power rules.

Did you read something else?


There might be some wiggle room here... the relevant regulation:
97.315(a) Any external RF power amplifier (see § 2.815 of the FCC Rules)
manufactured or imported for use at an amateur radio station must be
certificated for use in the amateur service in accordance with subpart J
of part 2 of the FCC Rules. No amplifier capable of operation below 144
MHz may be constructed or modified by a non-amateur service licensee
without a grant of certification from the FCC.


OK.. parse it out..

"manufactured or imported for use at an amateur radio station" must

This means that it only applies for amplifiers intended for use at an
amateur station. If one manufactured an amplifier for use, say, in a RF
induction heating system, one wouldn't need to be certificated for that
use. (one might need certification for other reasons...) See, e.g.,
http://www.manitousys.com/media/pb3_manual.pdf.. They have a photo of the
back panel, and I don't see a FCC registration number there. (nor does
manitou show up in the FCC databases for authorization or grantee)

But, it's pretty clear that if that amp has a switch on the front labeled,
for instance, "80m band", then it has to be certificated for use in
amateur service.

(and, it's mighty tough to get a "certification for amateur service" if it
can do other things.



If one went to Amplifier Research (http://www.amplifiers.com/, for
instance, one could buy a general purpose RF amplifier. That wouldn't be
"manufactured or imported for use at an amateur station" so it wouldn't
need to be "certificated foruse in the amateur service".

here's a nice little room heater for you
http://www.arww-rfmicro.com/post/2500L.pdf


want something to warm up your car... check out these little gems.
http://www.davemade.com/mobile.htm