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Gene Fuller wrote:
Bruce in alaska wrote:


Gene, It would depend on who you purchased your AMP from, and if it was
NEW at the time of purchase. If it was not "NEW" at the time of your
purchase, and you purchased it from another HAM, or another Ham owned
it at some previous time, then it is waived under
47CFRPart97.315(b)4,& 5, and if you Modify your "NEW" Purchase, by
drilling a hole somewhere in
the AMP, to add it to YOUR Station (Modification) they it is waived under
47CFR97.315(b)3(ii), as long as you don't "Modify" more than one AMP
per year, for your personal use. (47CFRPart97.315(a).


Bruce,

Yes, I understand that.

My initial comment was directed at the growing theme in the messages,
not specifically expressed by you, that amateurs could legally use *any*
transmitter as long as output power rules were not violated.

It ain't necessarily so.

A small nit.. "any transmitter" is allowed.. the rules in 97.315 apply
ONLY to external RF power amplifiers, and the class of "forbidden
amplifiers" is actually quite small (a subset of those intended for use
at an amateur station)


And this is in keeping with the concept in the regulation of Amateur
radio: allowing basically everything and exclude a small fraction; which
is different than the whole rest of radio, where it's: exclude most
things, and allow only specific things.

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Gene Fuller wrote:
... A constructed or modified amp is potentially legal if
operated within the output power rules.

Did you read something else?

73,
Gene
W4SZ

Hmmm, a mod ...

I wonder; would re-painting the case hot-pink qualify? Custom knobs?
Installing a larger muffin fan? ...

LOL

Regards,
JS

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Dave wrote:

want something to warm up your car... check out these little gems.
http://www.davemade.com/mobile.htm

This guy's name, address, and telephone number are listed in the web
registration database. All this fuss about what's legal and what isn't
is purely academic considering the total lack of enforcement. The FCC is
much too busy trying to bust the broadcasters for a few milliseconds of
boob to bother with this sort of thing.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

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Roy Lewallen wrote:
Dave wrote:

want something to warm up your car... check out these little gems.
http://www.davemade.com/mobile.htm

This guy's name, address, and telephone number are listed in the web
registration database. All this fuss about what's legal and what isn't
is purely academic considering the total lack of enforcement. The FCC is
much too busy trying to bust the broadcasters for a few milliseconds of
boob to bother with this sort of thing.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL
http://www.fcc.gov/eb/FieldNotices/2...-270807A1.html
In the Matter of )
) File No.: EB-06-PO-169
Michael T. Kersnowski )
d/b/a RadioActive Radio ) Citation No.: C20073292003
)
Salem, Oregon 97302 )

)

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"Jim Lux" wrote in message
...
Cecil Moore wrote:
Gene Fuller wrote:
Unless "John Smith" has a "certificated for use in the amateur service"
5 kW amp (highly unlikely that one could find such a critter) or
"constructed or modified" the 5 kW amp then it is not legal for amateur
use at any power setting.

"Modifications" are trivially easy.

Like..

The front panel has been modified to add a placard indicating that
operation at more than XXX plate current is not permitted when operating
in amateur bands.

And that whole "offered for sale" kind of thing is a huge regulatory
morass, with a lot of "guidance" from local FCC officials on what might or
might not prompt more attention. It's one thing to have an obscure ham
oriented website and sell widgets obviously intended only for hams..
another to have a big online-store and sell obviously commercial products
with a "wink, wink" disclaimer about only selling to hams, when in
actuality, anyone with a credit card can get it.

The FCC enforcement logs are full of things like folks are selling
"experimenter" video transmitters, but doing no substantive validation of
the buyer. Ditto the stores selling various and sundry CB equipment.

----------------

Anyone can own any piece of radio gear legally. Restrictions are on sales
and usage.

So, while it is not unlawful to own a 10kw AM transmitter, even by a CB
operator, or someone that doesn't operate radio at all, it IS
illegal/unlawful for a business to sell new equipment to those without legal
qualifications.

What about salvaged/junk transmitters? I don't know.

Much has changed over the years, but "presumed innocent until proven guilty"
still carries a little weight here and there.

Ed Cregger

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"Gene Fuller" wrote in message
...
Ed Cregger wrote:
"Gene Fuller" wrote in message
...
Bruce in alaska wrote:
In article ,
Cecil Moore wrote:

John Smith quoted someone:
"A 5 KW amplifier is not lawful for use under Part 97."
Back in the 60's, a ham friend of mine ran a
surplus AM transmitter capable of 10KW output.
However, he never adjusted his input power to
more than the legal 1KW limit.
Whom, ever "Someone" is, he isn't versed in 47CFR97, and doesn't
understand, or can't comprehend, the actual Rule that Part 97
operations are REQUIRED to operate under. Specifically Part
97.313. I wonder if "Said Person" has ever actually READ
47CFR90.313? Apparently NOT......

Why stop at 97.313? Try 97.315 and 97.317 as well.

Unless "John Smith" has a "certificated for use in the amateur service"
5 kW amp (highly unlikely that one could find such a critter) or
"constructed or modified" the 5 kW amp then it is not legal for amateur
use at any power setting.

73,
Gene
W4SZ


No, friend Gene. It doesn't work that way.

You do not have to have type certification for legal operation in the
amateur bands. You only have to have it if you SELL new amateur equipment
in the USA.

Home made gear, or converted gear from other services, is completely
legal in the USA. Always has been, hopefully always will be.

CB gear must be type certified for selling and for usage.

Again, amateurs are responsible for their RF emissions. The FCC could
care less about the type of gear you are using. In fact, if brand new
amateur gear that was compliant to type acceptance malfunctions and
issues an out of spec emission, YOU as a duly licensed amateur radio
operator are held responsible. Not the manufacturer.

Ed, NM2K

Ed,

Sorry you have such a problem with basic literacy.

I stand by exactly what I said.

An unmodified manufactured amp that is not "certificated" is not legal for
use in the US Amateur Service, regardless of where it was manufactured. A
constructed or modified amp is potentially legal if operated within the
output power rules.

Did you read something else?

73,
Gene
W4SZ

---------------

And my point is that ANY amplifier is legal, as long as it is operated
within the limits specified by the FCC for the particular amateur band and
license class of the operator. No type acceptance is necessary at all. Am I
missing something Gene?

Bear with me, please. I'm on a lot of medication these days and I make
mistakes occasionally. Thank you.

Ed Cregger

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Ed Cregger wrote:

...
Bear with me, please. I'm on a lot of medication these days and I make
mistakes occasionally. Thank you.

Ed Cregger



Ed:

At least you have an excuse ...

How do you think us guys who aren't taking anything feel when we don't
have anything to blame it on? :-(

(well, there is always alzheimers' ... :-) )

Regards,
JS

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Jim Lux wrote:
Gene Fuller wrote:


My initial comment was directed at the growing theme in the messages,
not specifically expressed by you, that amateurs could legally use
*any* transmitter as long as output power rules were not violated.

It ain't necessarily so.

A small nit.. "any transmitter" is allowed.. the rules in 97.315 apply
ONLY to external RF power amplifiers, and the class of "forbidden
amplifiers" is actually quite small (a subset of those intended for use
at an amateur station)

Guilty as charged!

I was careless to say "transmitter".

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Ed Cregger wrote:


And my point is that ANY amplifier is legal, as long as it is operated
within the limits specified by the FCC for the particular amateur band and
license class of the operator. No type acceptance is necessary at all. Am I
missing something Gene?


Ed,

I don't think that is correct. I don't believe it is legal to use an
unmodified DaveMade or other such beast in amateur service, at any power
level. I think that is the point of 97.315. It is about more than just
"operation" within the rules.

I realize there are a million ways to get around any potential
limitations resulting from these loosely worded and rarely enforced
regulations. However, if for some reason the FCC wanted to go after
someone I doubt that amateur "modifications" such as adding a placard or
drilling a hole would carry much weight.

73,
Gene
W4SZ

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"Gene Fuller" wrote in message
...
Bruce in alaska wrote:


Gene, It would depend on who you purchased your AMP from, and if it was
NEW at the time of purchase. If it was not "NEW" at the time of your
purchase, and you purchased it from another HAM, or another Ham owned it
at some previous time, then it is waived under 47CFRPart97.315(b)4,& 5,
and if you Modify your "NEW" Purchase, by drilling a hole somewhere in
the AMP, to add it to YOUR Station (Modification) they it is waived under
47CFR97.315(b)3(ii), as long as you don't "Modify" more than one AMP
per year, for your personal use. (47CFRPart97.315(a).


Bruce,

Yes, I understand that.

My initial comment was directed at the growing theme in the messages, not
specifically expressed by you, that amateurs could legally use *any*
transmitter as long as output power rules were not violated.

It ain't necessarily so.

73,
Gene
W4SZ

------------

Now I see the point that you were making. Thanks for your patience.

Ed, NM2K