Walter Maxwell wrote:
Quoting from the original post in this thread:

"People in New York didn't even need radios. They could sometimes hear voices in
their furnaces
and coming off chain-link fences. Light bulbs lit up in people's houses even if
they were switched off. "

These are the phenomena reported from WLW's 500 kw operation in the 1930's.

Some posters on this thread mention spark, Poulsen, Alexander alternators as
sources of 500 kw and Mw power in the 1920's, which is true. On the contrary,
from the quote above, I believe the original poster was referring only to a
station broadcasting voice transmissions. This is what I believe to be untrue,
as I don't believe 100 kw tubes were available in the 1920's. In addition, the
WLW story indicates that WLW was the first station to transmit with 50 kw, and
then the 500 kw transmitter with multiple 100 kw tubes was the first one to
transmit AM BC at that power.

Right, Walt. Rice's book indicates that there were 31 tubes in the 500
KW transmitter, each costing $1,000 in 1934. The Cincinnati area
stories of people living near WLW's Mason, Ohio transmitter site being
able to hear the station on fences and down spouts were common.

Even at 50 KW, WLW caused problems for a number of hams who lived near
the transmitter site when they were operating on 160m.

Dave K8MN

"Walter Maxwell" wrote in message
...
Quoting from the original post in this thread:

"People in New York didn't even need radios. They could sometimes hear
voices in
their furnaces
and coming off chain-link fences. Light bulbs lit up in people's houses
even if
they were switched off. "

These are the phenomena reported from WLW's 500 kw operation in the
1930's.

In the late 1950's White's Radio Log reported XEX (Mexico City) had a
megawatt of power for a while -- several years, perhaps. Later reports gave
their power as 500 KW. I never heard them in NY because there was always
somebody else blocking them. Presently they're on 730 and listed at a
featherweight 100 KW.
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/amq?list=0&facid=101201.

What's the record for max BCB power?

Sal M. Onella wrote:
. . .
What's the record for max BCB power?

Dunno, but some of the SW BC stations sure are impressive. I had the
opportunity to see the Deutsche Welle facility at Wertachtal, Germany a
couple of years ago. It has, I believe, 12 ea. 500 kW transmitters, and
the antenna consists of several miles of curtain array with reflector
grids on both sides for reversibility, arranged in a pattern of three
long radials from a central building. It can also be electronically
steered to some degree. Modulation could be heard at about a half mile
from the antenna, apparently from vibration of some of the antenna feed
components. That facility leases time to many other international
broadcasters.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

On Aug 6, 9:23 pm, Roy Lewallen wrote:
Sal M. Onella wrote:
. . .
What's the record for max BCB power?

Dunno, but some of the SW BC stations sure are impressive. I had the
opportunity to see the Deutsche Welle facility at Wertachtal, Germany a
couple of years ago. It has, I believe, 12 ea. 500 kW transmitters, and
the antenna consists of several miles of curtain array with reflector
grids on both sides for reversibility, arranged in a pattern of three
long radials from a central building. It can also be electronically
steered to some degree. Modulation could be heard at about a half mile
from the antenna, apparently from vibration of some of the antenna feed
components. That facility leases time to many other international
broadcasters.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

No wonder, then, that they can put a 0dBm signal into a decent ham
antenna on 7MHz on the US East Coast. Still, I'm always in awe of the
efficiency of propagation through the air, bouncing between the
ionosphere and the earth/oceans. On the same roughly 5000 km path
through a piece of dry air insulated minimum loss copper coax 1/3
meter diameter (a bit over a foot diameter; about 5 millidB/100feet
loss@7MHz), fed 6 megawatts at the input, you get an undetectable
signal out the other end, over 800dB loss yielding an output less than
-700dBm. [6 megawatts at 76 ohms is 21kV rms, so a line that large
should handle the voltage, but at the transmitter end, such a line
would dissipate about 60 watts per foot.]

Cheers,
Tom

Sal M. Onella wrote:
In the late 1950's White's Radio Log reported XEX (Mexico City) had a
megawatt of power for a while -- several years, perhaps.

In 1953, XERF at 250 KW in Villa Acuna was the strongest
station on the dial in East Texas. Their studios were across
the Rio Grande River in Del Rio, TX. For some reason, I
remember the White Rose Petroleum Jelly commercials.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 09:43:48 -0500, Cecil Moore
wrote:

Sal M. Onella wrote:
In the late 1950's White's Radio Log reported XEX (Mexico City) had a
megawatt of power for a while -- several years, perhaps.

In 1953, XERF at 250 KW in Villa Acuna was the strongest
station on the dial in East Texas. Their studios were across
the Rio Grande River in Del Rio, TX. For some reason, I
remember the White Rose Petroleum Jelly commercials.

Wolfman Jack... 100 baby chicks for $2.98, shipped to your door!

bob
k5qwg

Sal M. Onella wrote:

What's the record for max BCB power?

I don't think any of the "national" radio stations
in the Mideast run more than 1 Megawatt. Here's
some interesting stations from the Americas:

PJB3 800 kHz ND1 Daytime TRANSWORLD R 800.0 kW
ZYJ-457 800 kHz ND1 Daytime RIO DE JANEI 900.0 kW
YVTB 800 kHz ND1 Daytime MARACAIBO 5 900.0 kW
YVKY 710 kHz DA1 Daytime CARACAS 11 900.0 kW
YVKG 950 kHz DA1 Daytime CARACAS 2 400.0 kW
YVLL 670 kHz DA1 Daytime CARACAS 9 500.0 kW
ZYH-446 740 kHz ND1 Daytime SALVADOR BR 800.0 kW
ZYH-707 AM 980 kHz ND1 Nighttime BRASILIA 600.0 kW
ZYK537 AM 1040 kHz ND1 Nighttime SAO PAULO 900.0 kW
ZYJ-455 AM 1280 kHz DA1 Nighttime RIO DE JANEI 700.0 kW
HCXY1 AM 620 kHz ND1 Daytime LOJA EC 900.0 kW
HCJB1 AM 690 kHz ND1 Daytime QUITO EC 600.0 kW

Jim, K7JEB

Back at about the same time the BBC had (and still has) a powerful
transmitter on 200khz (now198) a local farmer who lived close to the station
built a large tuning coil in the loft and lit his house using fluorescent
tubes.

He was successfully prosecuted for stealing electricity or something
similar.

Alec


"javawizard" wrote in message
...
In the 1920's a radio station in Schenectady, NY built a powerful
transmitter. In those days before FCC regulations, not knowing just
how big to make a transmitter in order for the signal to be received
some distance away, the station set up to broadcast at 500,000 watts.
It requires about one watt to be received four blocks away. A cell
phone is three watts. This station broadcast at such tremendous power
that they could be heard around the world. People in New York didn't
even need radios. They could sometimes hear voices in their furnaces
and coming off chain-link fences. Light bulbs lit up in people's
houses even if they were switched off. - from www.clip-text.com

Alec wrote:

Back at about the same time the BBC had (and still has) a powerful
transmitter on 200khz (now198) a local farmer who lived close to the station
built a large tuning coil in the loft and lit his house using fluorescent
tubes.

He was successfully prosecuted for stealing electricity or something
similar.

Please provide citations for this story; it retells what appears to be
an "urban legend". Here is another take on the story:

=============QUOTED MATERIAL=========================================
From: "Steve Maudsley"
Message-ID:
Newsgroups: uk.legal
Subject: Theft of electricity?
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:12:00 -0000
NNTP-Posting-Host: 81.103.216.21
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:14:40 GMT
Organization: Virgin Net Usenet Service


"Jeff" wrote in message
...



But a transformer still involves a direct physical connection to the
mains via the primary. The primary is consuming current via its
physical connection, whatever may happen to the current after it has
entered the primary.


The power line *is the primary*!! It is just that the secondary is
separated from it by a larger distance than normal.

In any case I believe that someone was prosecuted some years ago
for doing what it being suggested.

I do recall a story about 30 years ago (possibly apocryphal) about a farmer
who lived on the UK side of the Radio Luxemburg transmitter and powered his
cattle shed from the radio waves, and was prosecuted. Radio Luxemburg had
some sort of phased array and the cows electrical use disrupted the beam.
================END OF QUOTED MATERIAL====================================

Michael

On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 10:59:56 -0500, msg wrote:

Alec wrote:

Back at about the same time the BBC had (and still has) a powerful
transmitter on 200khz (now198) a local farmer who lived close to the
station built a large tuning coil in the loft and lit his house using
fluorescent tubes.

He was successfully prosecuted for stealing electricity or something
similar.

Please provide citations for this story; it retells what appears to be
an "urban legend". Here is another take on the story:

=============QUOTED MATERIAL=========================================
From: "Steve Maudsley" Message-ID:
Newsgroups: uk.legal
Subject: Theft of electricity?
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:12:00 -0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 81.103.216.21
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:14:40 GMT Organization: Virgin
Net Usenet Service


"Jeff" wrote in message
...



But a transformer still involves a direct physical connection to
the mains via the primary. The primary is consuming current via
its physical connection, whatever may happen to the current after
it has entered the primary.


The power line *is the primary*!! It is just that the secondary is
separated from it by a larger distance than normal.

In any case I believe that someone was prosecuted some years ago for
doing what it being suggested.

I do recall a story about 30 years ago (possibly apocryphal) about a
farmer who lived on the UK side of the Radio Luxemburg transmitter and
powered his cattle shed from the radio waves, and was prosecuted.
Radio Luxemburg had some sort of phased array and the cows electrical
use disrupted the beam.
================END OF QUOTED
MATERIAL====================================

Michael

Didn't Tesla propose using DC current, basically broadcast/produced from
thousands of transmitters. In order to use the electrical current/field,
all one had to do was ground one side/wire to Earth. The other side or
wire would be the receptor/antenna for lack of a better term.

I'm not a technical person but I think I have the basic premise right.