"Walt Davidson" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 9 Aug 2008 14:35:25 +0100, "Alec"
wrote:

Back at about the same time the BBC had (and still has) a powerful
transmitter on 200khz (now198) a local farmer who lived close to the
station
built a large tuning coil in the loft and lit his house using fluorescent
tubes.

He was successfully prosecuted for stealing electricity or something
similar.

If this is true (and I have no reason to doubt it), did it make the
signal weaker for everybody else?

73 de G3NYY



Only in the near field (at the site). Theoretically, there is a limit to
the number of receivers for any one signal (swamping), but that number has
never been approached.

As for the original story, I can verify that it CAN be done, and is done
inadvertantly in places where homes are found in the area of an 'antenna
farm'. In Portland, for instance, the antenna farm for the high powered FM
signals is in a residential shared area. Some homes within that area that
use fluorescent lighting still have some light from the tubes with the
switch turned off. This is not full light, but neither are they using a
tuned circuit.

I've heard variants of this story for years, but have yet to see one shred
of real
evidence that it actually occurred.

The closest I've seen that could be regarded as 'real' evidence was a memo
that
circulated around PP&L (Pennsylvania Power and Light) back in the summer of
1972 or 73 that mentioned a farmer that ALLEGEDLY got shocks off a coil of
fence wire he was installing. (The power right of way went over his pasture
and
the indication was that he was stringing a fence under one of the then new
extremely high voltage lines. 750KV if I remember, but maybe only 500KV.)

Even then, I thought the right of ways were 'clear' under the big lines,
which
makes even this story suspect.

Mike



"Walt Davidson" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 9 Aug 2008 14:35:25 +0100, "Alec"
wrote:

Back at about the same time the BBC had (and still has) a powerful
transmitter on 200khz (now198) a local farmer who lived close to the
station
built a large tuning coil in the loft and lit his house using fluorescent
tubes.

He was successfully prosecuted for stealing electricity or something
similar.

If this is true (and I have no reason to doubt it), did it make the
signal weaker for everybody else?

73 de G3NYY

--
Walt Davidson Email: g3nyy @despammed.com

the electric field under ehv lines can be high enough to give shocks,
especially if it were a long piece of wire insulated from the ground running
along or across the right of way. There can also be other factors, magnetic
induction is possible if the wire is long enough and he was closing a loop
of it, like the top wire of an electric fence would be. There can also be
ground currents due to imbalance in the 3 phases between substations, the
currents induced on the static wire that is attached to the towers, leaky
insulator strings, leaky lightning arresters, etc. the fields at ground
level are supposed to be calculated into the design by the utility to be
below the specified safe levels, but changes in ground moisture, air
humidity, temperature, sag in the line caused by resistive or solar heating,
can cause unexpected shocking experiences on the ground. where i used to
work we would demonstrate that for utility engineers by setting up a worst
case test line, having them measure the fields, and then do things like hold
up a metal ribbed umbrella or touch a key to a car door lock.

note though that these are 60hz currents, the human body is relatively
sensitive to that frequency and it is easily detected by most people. lf or
mf radio frequencies are less likely to be directly felt unless they get
high enough of a voltage/current to burn.

"Mike Y" wrote in message
...
I've heard variants of this story for years, but have yet to see one shred
of real
evidence that it actually occurred.

The closest I've seen that could be regarded as 'real' evidence was a memo
that
circulated around PP&L (Pennsylvania Power and Light) back in the summer
of
1972 or 73 that mentioned a farmer that ALLEGEDLY got shocks off a coil of
fence wire he was installing. (The power right of way went over his
pasture
and
the indication was that he was stringing a fence under one of the then new
extremely high voltage lines. 750KV if I remember, but maybe only 500KV.)

Even then, I thought the right of ways were 'clear' under the big lines,
which
makes even this story suspect.

Mike



"Walt Davidson" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 9 Aug 2008 14:35:25 +0100, "Alec"
wrote:

Back at about the same time the BBC had (and still has) a powerful
transmitter on 200khz (now198) a local farmer who lived close to the
station
built a large tuning coil in the loft and lit his house using
fluorescent
tubes.

He was successfully prosecuted for stealing electricity or something
similar.

If this is true (and I have no reason to doubt it), did it make the
signal weaker for everybody else?

73 de G3NYY

--
Walt Davidson Email: g3nyy @despammed.com

Mike Y wrote:
I've heard variants of this story for years, but have yet to see one
shred of real evidence that it actually occurred.

The closest I've seen that could be regarded as 'real' evidence was a
memo that circulated around PP&L (Pennsylvania Power and Light) back
in the summer of 1972 or 73 that mentioned a farmer that ALLEGEDLY
got shocks off a coil of fence wire he was installing. (The power
right of way went over his pasture and the indication was that he was
stringing a fence under one of the then new extremely high voltage
lines. 750KV if I remember, but maybe only 500KV.)

Yes, this can easily happen. A few years ago, I was doing some
consulting work for a major power company at one of their very high
voltage substations. EVERYTHING was hot, from the fence surrounding the
property to the doorknobs on the buildings to the employee cars parked
on the property. Even though this site was usually unattended, to a man,
all the power company employees disliked pulling maintenance duty there.

Even then, I thought the right of ways were 'clear' under the big
lines, which makes even this story suspect.

What do you mean by "clear"? Yes, they clear the brush under their right
of way (which can pass over private property) , but I don't think
anyone has repealed the laws of induction and electrostatic fields. So,
your story above doesn't surprise me in the least.

P.S.

When I worked for CBS TV, they also owned a 50 kW AM station connected
to (at the time) a 12(!) tower directional array. At homes in the main
lobe of the pattern, I can relate many stories of shocks off of aluminum
siding, TV rabbit ear antennas, lights staying on, detected audio being
rectified and coming through the forced air heating ducts, etc, etc.
However, I never heard of anyone stealing power as related by the OP.

Mike- Tho this NOT about R.F., it is about induction- Many years ago,
we had a working telephone line, from K.Falls, Or to Tule Lake, Ca.
About 1/4 mile away a power line (1/2 Megavolt) was installed, running
next to our line for some 5 miles ! When power company fired it up,
instantly the line was unusable-- Measured over 400 VOLTS of escape
in telegraph office- worse- at a detector, a maintainer (these were
Fiberglass houses) grabbed on to the door handle, and was knocked to
the ground ! Power company supplied us with 60 cycle filters, but the
line still had too much noise to be usable! And, another incident- in
Portland, had a Phone line to Eugene, passed KXL (1190KHz?) radio
station- Had enough leakage, that it got into the baseband of our
microwave system!
we wern't using baseband that high, but when FCC inspected our El Paso,
Texas facility, cited us for re-transmitting that signal, on our
microwave system! Take it to the bank-- dumb things happen! Jim NN7K

Mike Y wrote:
I've heard variants of this story for years, but have yet to see one shred
of real
evidence that it actually occurred.

The closest I've seen that could be regarded as 'real' evidence was a memo
that
circulated around PP&L (Pennsylvania Power and Light) back in the summer of
1972 or 73 that mentioned a farmer that ALLEGEDLY got shocks off a coil of
fence wire he was installing. (The power right of way went over his pasture
and
the indication was that he was stringing a fence under one of the then new
extremely high voltage lines. 750KV if I remember, but maybe only 500KV.)

Even then, I thought the right of ways were 'clear' under the big lines,
which
makes even this story suspect.

Mike

"Jim-NN7K" . wrote in message
...
And, another incident- in
Portland, had a Phone line to Eugene, passed KXL (1190KHz?) radio station-
Had enough leakage, that it got into the baseband of our microwave system!
we wern't using baseband that high, but when FCC inspected our El Paso,
Texas facility, cited us for re-transmitting that signal, on our microwave
system! Take it to the bank-- dumb things happen! Jim NN7K

KXL (5000 watts) is at 750 KHz. KEX (50,000 watts) is at 1190 KHz. If your
system was anywhere near I-205 at Clackamas, then it would not surprise me
that KEX would get into it. Once I was driving by their tower site and
decided to be funny. It was in my 1969 Pontiac wagon. I commented to my
passengers that "I bet I can really get a good signal from KEX right now.."
and punched the button for KEX on my car radio.. which greeted me with total
silence! I just happened to punch that button while in the strongest part of
their pattern, and it took out the RF amp and local oscillator in the radio
(damn, that was a good radio, too...)

Brenda Ann wrote:
"Jim-NN7K" . wrote in message
...
And, another incident- in
Portland, had a Phone line to Eugene, passed KXL (1190KHz?) radio station-
Had enough leakage, that it got into the baseband of our microwave system!
we wern't using baseband that high, but when FCC inspected our El Paso,
Texas facility, cited us for re-transmitting that signal, on our microwave
system! Take it to the bank-- dumb things happen! Jim NN7K

KXL (5000 watts) is at 750 KHz. KEX (50,000 watts) is at 1190 KHz. If your
system was anywhere near I-205 at Clackamas, then it would not surprise me
that KEX would get into it. Once I was driving by their tower site and
decided to be funny. It was in my 1969 Pontiac wagon. I commented to my
passengers that "I bet I can really get a good signal from KEX right now.."
and punched the button for KEX on my car radio.. which greeted me with total
silence! I just happened to punch that button while in the strongest part of
their pattern, and it took out the RF amp and local oscillator in the radio
(damn, that was a good radio, too...)



Correct-- this from memory of around 35 years ago (Comm Tech for
Southern Pacific (Now Union Pacific)-- Main Line ran real close to their
towers! Signal came from a microwave carrier, installed as should be (
Balances wires, shield on one end grounded- had to ground BOTH ends,
to get rid of signal! Also had to string Grounds from the clock tower
at Union Station, a pretty good trick, as high as it is! Jim

"Brenda Ann" wrote in message
...

"Jim-NN7K" . wrote in message
...
And, another incident- in
Portland, had a Phone line to Eugene, passed KXL (1190KHz?) radio
station- Had enough leakage, that it got into the baseband of our
microwave system!
we wern't using baseband that high, but when FCC inspected our El Paso,
Texas facility, cited us for re-transmitting that signal, on our
microwave system! Take it to the bank-- dumb things happen! Jim NN7K

KXL (5000 watts) is at 750 KHz.

KXL has been 50 kw days at least back to 1972... that is as far as I wanted
to check it in the Jones Log and Broadcasting Yearbook.

http://www.davidgleason.com/Archive-...0Tennessee.pdf

"Jim-NN7K" . wrote in message
...
Mike- Tho this NOT about R.F., it is about induction-

I agree. And while I realizeit's quite possible to get 'shocks' off an
induction
coupling that essentially goes to a high impedance, it's a far cry from
being
able to 'power a house' with a broadcast transmitter that wasn't designed
for the purpose. Yes, Tesla lit up bulbs, in one case a reported 50 miles
from his transmitter site, but that was with a setup specifically geared to
transmit power with brute force, with fairly huge receiving antennas
specifically designed to pull the power from the broadcast wave.

And before someone brings up RFID tags... Tags are DESIGNED to work in
the RF field. They actually couple magnetically like a transformer to the
readers
antenna. But realize how fast the field falls off and what limited range
they have.

But actually, in reference to the original comment, I believe IF someone did
pull power from the air, it WOULD degrade the broadcast signal.

Mike

Mike Y wrote:
And while I realizeit's quite possible to get 'shocks' off an
induction
coupling that essentially goes to a high impedance, it's a far cry from
being
able to 'power a house' with a broadcast transmitter that wasn't designed
for the purpose.

The original story that I heard about 40 years ago is
that it involved 60 Hz high-voltage power lines. A
farmer is supposed to have built an induction coil
in a shed directly beneath the power lines and picked
up free energy.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com