Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Tesla was responsible for AC power distribution, which ****ed Edison
off.

Rumor was that Edison couldn't understand how one could
measure 120 volts between any two of three terminals.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

"Walt Davidson" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 9 Aug 2008 14:35:25 +0100, "Alec"
wrote:

Back at about the same time the BBC had (and still has) a powerful
transmitter on 200khz (now198) a local farmer who lived close to the
station
built a large tuning coil in the loft and lit his house using fluorescent
tubes.

He was successfully prosecuted for stealing electricity or something
similar.

If this is true (and I have no reason to doubt it), did it make the
signal weaker for everybody else?

73 de G3NYY



Only in the near field (at the site). Theoretically, there is a limit to
the number of receivers for any one signal (swamping), but that number has
never been approached.

As for the original story, I can verify that it CAN be done, and is done
inadvertantly in places where homes are found in the area of an 'antenna
farm'. In Portland, for instance, the antenna farm for the high powered FM
signals is in a residential shared area. Some homes within that area that
use fluorescent lighting still have some light from the tubes with the
switch turned off. This is not full light, but neither are they using a
tuned circuit.

Rumor was that Edison couldn't understand how one could
measure 120 volts between any two of three terminals.

No rumor about it. Westinghouse published several papers on electricity
where he described voltage and current phase and had a true understanding of
it. Edison was a hands-on experimenter who had little theoretical physics
or mathematics background. That's why the two had a feud about AC vs DC.
After Edison's assistant died of radiation poisoning, he was very leary of
things he didn't understand and tried to convince people that AC current was
just too dangerous. He also refused any more experiments concerning
radiation.

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
christopher wrote:
Didn't Tesla propose using DC current, basically broadcast/produced from
thousands of transmitters. In order to use the electrical current/field,
all one had to do was ground one side/wire to Earth. The other side or
wire would be the receptor/antenna for lack of a better term.

I'm not a technical person but I think I have the basic premise right.


No. It wasn't DC, since DC is direct current. That was Edison who
would have needed a power plant every half mile or so. Tesla was hyping
"Broadcast power" which was lossy broadband RF power that would wipe out
most of the usable RF spectrum. Due to the 'Inverse Square Law', it was
impractical, and always will be.

Tesla was responsible for AC power distribution, which ****ed Edison
off.


Tesla worked for Edison when he came up with AC power distribution.
Edison favored DC for some reason and Tesla quit and went to work for
Westinghouse. When the electric chair was proposed Edison did everything
he could to discredit it because it used Tesla's AC power.

Dave N

"David G. Nagel" wrote in message
...
Tesla worked for Edison when he came up with AC power distribution.
Edison favored DC for some reason and Tesla quit and went to work for
Westinghouse. When the electric chair was proposed Edison did everything
he could to discredit it because it used Tesla's AC power.


"The first electric chair was made by Harold P. Brown. Brown was an employee
of Thomas Edison, hired for the purpose of researching electrocution and for
the development of the electric chair. Since Brown worked for Edison, and
Edison promoted Brown's work, the development of the electric chair is often
erroneously credited to Edison himself. Brown's design was based on use of
Nikola Tesla's alternating current (AC), which was marketed by George
Westinghouse and was then just emerging as the rival to Edison's less
transport-efficient direct current (DC), which was further along in
commercial development. The decision to use AC was partly driven by Edison's
claims that AC was more lethal than DC."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_chair

John H.

"David G. Nagel" wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
christopher wrote:
Didn't Tesla propose using DC current, basically broadcast/produced from
thousands of transmitters. In order to use the electrical current/field,
all one had to do was ground one side/wire to Earth. The other side or
wire would be the receptor/antenna for lack of a better term.

I'm not a technical person but I think I have the basic premise right.


No. It wasn't DC, since DC is direct current. That was Edison who
would have needed a power plant every half mile or so. Tesla was hyping
"Broadcast power" which was lossy broadband RF power that would wipe out
most of the usable RF spectrum. Due to the 'Inverse Square Law', it was
impractical, and always will be.

Tesla was responsible for AC power distribution, which ****ed Edison
off.


Tesla worked for Edison when he came up with AC power distribution.
Edison favored DC for some reason and Tesla quit and went to work for
Westinghouse. When the electric chair was proposed Edison did everything
he could to discredit it because it used Tesla's AC power.


Explain why Edison Electrocuted an Elephant with AC. He wanted people
to think AC was too dangerous to use.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topsy_(elephant)


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The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

David G. Nagel wrote:

Tesla worked for Edison when he came up with AC power distribution.
Edison favored DC for some reason and Tesla quit and went to work for
Westinghouse. When the electric chair was proposed Edison did everything
he could to discredit it because it used Tesla's AC power.


Just the opposite. He was trying to discredit AC power by using the
electric chair as an example of how dangerous it was. Edison had a lot
of money tied up in DC generators and distribution. He didn't want
competition, especially from a superior technology.


mike


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I've heard variants of this story for years, but have yet to see one shred
of real
evidence that it actually occurred.

The closest I've seen that could be regarded as 'real' evidence was a memo
that
circulated around PP&L (Pennsylvania Power and Light) back in the summer of
1972 or 73 that mentioned a farmer that ALLEGEDLY got shocks off a coil of
fence wire he was installing. (The power right of way went over his pasture
and
the indication was that he was stringing a fence under one of the then new
extremely high voltage lines. 750KV if I remember, but maybe only 500KV.)

Even then, I thought the right of ways were 'clear' under the big lines,
which
makes even this story suspect.

Mike



"Walt Davidson" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 9 Aug 2008 14:35:25 +0100, "Alec"
wrote:

Back at about the same time the BBC had (and still has) a powerful
transmitter on 200khz (now198) a local farmer who lived close to the
station
built a large tuning coil in the loft and lit his house using fluorescent
tubes.

He was successfully prosecuted for stealing electricity or something
similar.

If this is true (and I have no reason to doubt it), did it make the
signal weaker for everybody else?

73 de G3NYY

--
Walt Davidson Email: g3nyy @despammed.com

the electric field under ehv lines can be high enough to give shocks,
especially if it were a long piece of wire insulated from the ground running
along or across the right of way. There can also be other factors, magnetic
induction is possible if the wire is long enough and he was closing a loop
of it, like the top wire of an electric fence would be. There can also be
ground currents due to imbalance in the 3 phases between substations, the
currents induced on the static wire that is attached to the towers, leaky
insulator strings, leaky lightning arresters, etc. the fields at ground
level are supposed to be calculated into the design by the utility to be
below the specified safe levels, but changes in ground moisture, air
humidity, temperature, sag in the line caused by resistive or solar heating,
can cause unexpected shocking experiences on the ground. where i used to
work we would demonstrate that for utility engineers by setting up a worst
case test line, having them measure the fields, and then do things like hold
up a metal ribbed umbrella or touch a key to a car door lock.

note though that these are 60hz currents, the human body is relatively
sensitive to that frequency and it is easily detected by most people. lf or
mf radio frequencies are less likely to be directly felt unless they get
high enough of a voltage/current to burn.

"Mike Y" wrote in message
...
I've heard variants of this story for years, but have yet to see one shred
of real
evidence that it actually occurred.

The closest I've seen that could be regarded as 'real' evidence was a memo
that
circulated around PP&L (Pennsylvania Power and Light) back in the summer
of
1972 or 73 that mentioned a farmer that ALLEGEDLY got shocks off a coil of
fence wire he was installing. (The power right of way went over his
pasture
and
the indication was that he was stringing a fence under one of the then new
extremely high voltage lines. 750KV if I remember, but maybe only 500KV.)

Even then, I thought the right of ways were 'clear' under the big lines,
which
makes even this story suspect.

Mike



"Walt Davidson" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 9 Aug 2008 14:35:25 +0100, "Alec"
wrote:

Back at about the same time the BBC had (and still has) a powerful
transmitter on 200khz (now198) a local farmer who lived close to the
station
built a large tuning coil in the loft and lit his house using
fluorescent
tubes.

He was successfully prosecuted for stealing electricity or something
similar.

If this is true (and I have no reason to doubt it), did it make the
signal weaker for everybody else?

73 de G3NYY

--
Walt Davidson Email: g3nyy @despammed.com

Mike Y wrote:
I've heard variants of this story for years, but have yet to see one
shred of real evidence that it actually occurred.

The closest I've seen that could be regarded as 'real' evidence was a
memo that circulated around PP&L (Pennsylvania Power and Light) back
in the summer of 1972 or 73 that mentioned a farmer that ALLEGEDLY
got shocks off a coil of fence wire he was installing. (The power
right of way went over his pasture and the indication was that he was
stringing a fence under one of the then new extremely high voltage
lines. 750KV if I remember, but maybe only 500KV.)

Yes, this can easily happen. A few years ago, I was doing some
consulting work for a major power company at one of their very high
voltage substations. EVERYTHING was hot, from the fence surrounding the
property to the doorknobs on the buildings to the employee cars parked
on the property. Even though this site was usually unattended, to a man,
all the power company employees disliked pulling maintenance duty there.

Even then, I thought the right of ways were 'clear' under the big
lines, which makes even this story suspect.

What do you mean by "clear"? Yes, they clear the brush under their right
of way (which can pass over private property) , but I don't think
anyone has repealed the laws of induction and electrostatic fields. So,
your story above doesn't surprise me in the least.

P.S.

When I worked for CBS TV, they also owned a 50 kW AM station connected
to (at the time) a 12(!) tower directional array. At homes in the main
lobe of the pattern, I can relate many stories of shocks off of aluminum
siding, TV rabbit ear antennas, lights staying on, detected audio being
rectified and coming through the forced air heating ducts, etc, etc.
However, I never heard of anyone stealing power as related by the OP.