information suppression by universities
 

On Dec 8, 12:07*pm, Michael Coslo wrote:
Art Unwin wrote:
On Dec 5, 8:21 am, Michael Coslo wrote:
Art Unwin wrote:
On Dec 4, 3:02 pm, "JB" wrote:
So, you're a legend in your own mind. *Your reactivity by the way
indicates
No, actually not. *However, as your text indicates, I "AM SOMETHING" you
don't see in your ghetto, thanks for the "heads-up." *People DO tend to
be a product of their environment ... again, reflected in your text..
Regards,
JS
Environment's no excuse for bad behavior, but it is often the case. *Maybe
you haven't seen any miracles in yours. *They can be found even amongst
great turmoil and evil. *Try to get out of your comfort zone and travel
some, even spend some time in other cultures. *Jails of Mexico, Beverly
Hills, anywhere. *It can be a better teacher than the classroom. *I can pray
that you're eyes be opened to what you can't see.
What on Earth is going on here? So you have a conflict?
What do you both want of each other so this can be put aside
if you so wish?
The subject was that many technical people are getting laid off.
This removes them from access to public university white papers.
*After a year or so they will be encouraged to look for a alternative
career
They then find that that University white papers are not open source
to facilitate recomended change
Universities widen the Rust Belt towards both coasts. Universities
decline in services without public funds
Universities react and recruit teachers from India *to prevent furthur
spread of the Rust Belt but efforts to late.
America becomes the latest Empire to bite the dust as a Mexican
becomes P=resident and encourages change
*over from corn to hemp and all are happy overnight. The audacity of
hope fades away.
* * * * Phew! Stop to catch your breath Art. 8^)

* * * * Actually, I wondered what this thread was all about.

* * * * So I'll bite.

* * * * Much of what is out there is free for all.

* * * * But the source of the money for research is often from companies who
are using the research to enhance their companies position in the
marketplace.

* * * * Now we can discuss how much of a public university is actually public,
and whether or not it should all be public or not, but the background
has shifted.

* * * * Once upon a time, industry funded an amount of their assets toward
research. As time went on, some folks decided that that research money
was wasted, and was better spent giving back to the shareholders. That
was a smart move - if you couldn't see past the end of your nose.

* * * * So after it was seen that wrecking your R and D department was a great
way to become a technological backwater, they started looking for a less
expensive way to get research done. The answer was the universities. So
here we are. We can argue about whether or not it should be all open
source or not, but from industries perspective, not having the research
open to all makes sense.

Needless to say, a one paragraph dissertation of the situation is
necessarily truncated as all hell....

* * * * Not to say one way is better than any other, although personally, I
kind of liked the older paradigm of company based R and D. But the new
method sends money to the universities.

* * * * - 73 de Mike N3LI - *da village idiot.........

Mike
My point is that IF the work of Universities is to be published it
should be open source
instead of giving it to a private entity. I see no point in preventing
oversite by the public at large
from seeing how their taxes are being spent. The fruits of our taxes
should not be channelled off
to prevent private institutions from going bankrupt. *Private
companies can always, and do, *have their own Rand D
if they want totally privacy for commercial reasons.

Hi Art, not saying that I disagree with your sentiments, but the
paradigm shifted, and we allowed it to happen.

Bell labs is a good (bad?) example of just what happened:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Labs

Is an interesting reference, you really should read it.

They sure came up with a lot of interesting innovations and inventions.

But what is telling is the last two sentences of the article:

Start quote

As of July 2008, however, only four scientists remained in physics basic research
according to a report by the scientific journal Nature.[4]

On August 28, 2008, Alcatel-Lucent announced it was pulling out of basic science,
material physics, and semiconductor research, and it will instead focus on more
immediately marketable areas including networking, high-speed electronics,
wireless networks, nanotechnology and software.[5]

End quote

No doubt their next quarter profits will look good. Or did. They'll have
to find something for an encore to increase the profits next quarter.
But for companies that rely on innovation and invention, they are eating
their seed corn.

* * * * - 73 de Mike N3LI -

Mike,
I see no end to the present trend. A few decades ago GE here in
Bloomington started moving its manufacturing products overseas
only later to sell as they moved away from manufacturing and into cash
handling businesses such as banking, tv and the like..
Bloomington had a couple of plants making vacuum cleaners, they
moved out to Mexico. Beich's candy was sold to a Swiss company
Also had a major switch yard on the railroad which is now a waste
land.Result We paid for Mitsubishi to settle here to make cars.
Insurance companies got bigger here churning money and now import
Indian software people as they state american programmers do niot come
up to
par. The city commerce department encouraged hotels to be built
together with the import of 10K mexican workerst6o keep them clean and
hospitals became larger as immigrant births ballooned as insurance
against deportation which then increased taxes for bilingual
education.
All this because we moved away from letting the existing market
decide as we went global knowing that american ingenuity was the
answer to all.
Now Universities are getting failing grades thro out the country where
their products were intended to be the savior of capatalism which has
now changed
as entrepreneurs changed the "market" instead of strengthening the
infro structure. Now the motor industry wants feed money to continue
to build cars
with high labor content that cannot compete. So the idea of let the
"market" decide has now also disapeared as we nationalise/take over
our industries.
Americas answer? Pull away from the dissemination of science and try
to remold the World (market) to match our needs. Suppression of the
meagre results in universities is such a small dent in the overall
picture. But all knew what the total end effect would be. History
shows that all that seek an empire
always over estimate their abilities to retain what their military had
won such that another new empire emerges.To increase market size while
decreasing
population wealth eventually only leads to total domination or
widespead civil strife.
Greed is a terrible thing
Pull up the ladder Jack. To heck with the others i'm O.K. and that's
the most important thing for today. Tomorrow is another day

information suppression by universities
 

"Art Unwin" wrote in message
...
On Dec 8, 12:07 pm, Michael Coslo wrote:
Art Unwin wrote:
On Dec 5, 8:21 am, Michael Coslo wrote:
Art Unwin wrote:
On Dec 4, 3:02 pm, "JB" wrote:
So, you're a legend in your own mind. Your reactivity by the way
indicates
No, actually not. However, as your text indicates, I "AM SOMETHING"
you
don't see in your ghetto, thanks for the "heads-up." People DO tend
to
be a product of their environment ... again, reflected in your text.
Regards,
JS
Environment's no excuse for bad behavior, but it is often the case.
Maybe
you haven't seen any miracles in yours. They can be found even
amongst
great turmoil and evil. Try to get out of your comfort zone and
travel
some, even spend some time in other cultures. Jails of Mexico,
Beverly
Hills, anywhere. It can be a better teacher than the classroom. I can
pray
that you're eyes be opened to what you can't see.
What on Earth is going on here? So you have a conflict?
What do you both want of each other so this can be put aside
if you so wish?
The subject was that many technical people are getting laid off.
This removes them from access to public university white papers.
After a year or so they will be encouraged to look for a alternative
career
They then find that that University white papers are not open source
to facilitate recomended change
Universities widen the Rust Belt towards both coasts. Universities
decline in services without public funds
Universities react and recruit teachers from India to prevent furthur
spread of the Rust Belt but efforts to late.
America becomes the latest Empire to bite the dust as a Mexican
becomes P=resident and encourages change
over from corn to hemp and all are happy overnight. The audacity of
hope fades away.
Phew! Stop to catch your breath Art. 8^)

Actually, I wondered what this thread was all about.

So I'll bite.

Much of what is out there is free for all.

But the source of the money for research is often from companies who
are using the research to enhance their companies position in the
marketplace.

Now we can discuss how much of a public university is actually public,
and whether or not it should all be public or not, but the background
has shifted.

Once upon a time, industry funded an amount of their assets toward
research. As time went on, some folks decided that that research money
was wasted, and was better spent giving back to the shareholders. That
was a smart move - if you couldn't see past the end of your nose.

So after it was seen that wrecking your R and D department was a great
way to become a technological backwater, they started looking for a
less
expensive way to get research done. The answer was the universities. So
here we are. We can argue about whether or not it should be all open
source or not, but from industries perspective, not having the research
open to all makes sense.

Needless to say, a one paragraph dissertation of the situation is
necessarily truncated as all hell....

Not to say one way is better than any other, although personally, I
kind of liked the older paradigm of company based R and D. But the new
method sends money to the universities.

- 73 de Mike N3LI - da village idiot.........

Mike
My point is that IF the work of Universities is to be published it
should be open source
instead of giving it to a private entity. I see no point in preventing
oversite by the public at large
from seeing how their taxes are being spent. The fruits of our taxes
should not be channelled off
to prevent private institutions from going bankrupt. Private
companies can always, and do, have their own Rand D
if they want totally privacy for commercial reasons.

Hi Art, not saying that I disagree with your sentiments, but the
paradigm shifted, and we allowed it to happen.

Bell labs is a good (bad?) example of just what happened:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Labs

Is an interesting reference, you really should read it.

They sure came up with a lot of interesting innovations and inventions.

But what is telling is the last two sentences of the article:

Start quote

As of July 2008, however, only four scientists remained in physics
basic research
according to a report by the scientific journal Nature.[4]

On August 28, 2008, Alcatel-Lucent announced it was pulling out of
basic science,
material physics, and semiconductor research, and it will instead focus
on more
immediately marketable areas including networking, high-speed
electronics,
wireless networks, nanotechnology and software.[5]

End quote

No doubt their next quarter profits will look good. Or did. They'll have
to find something for an encore to increase the profits next quarter.
But for companies that rely on innovation and invention, they are eating
their seed corn.

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

Mike,
I see no end to the present trend. A few decades ago GE here in
Bloomington started moving its manufacturing products overseas
only later to sell as they moved away from manufacturing and into cash
handling businesses such as banking, tv and the like..
Bloomington had a couple of plants making vacuum cleaners, they
moved out to Mexico. Beich's candy was sold to a Swiss company
Also had a major switch yard on the railroad which is now a waste
land.Result We paid for Mitsubishi to settle here to make cars.
Insurance companies got bigger here churning money and now import
Indian software people as they state american programmers do niot come
up to
par. The city commerce department encouraged hotels to be built
together with the import of 10K mexican workerst6o keep them clean and
hospitals became larger as immigrant births ballooned as insurance
against deportation which then increased taxes for bilingual
education.
All this because we moved away from letting the existing market
decide as we went global knowing that american ingenuity was the
answer to all.
Now Universities are getting failing grades thro out the country where
their products were intended to be the savior of capatalism which has
now changed
as entrepreneurs changed the "market" instead of strengthening the
infro structure. Now the motor industry wants feed money to continue
to build cars
with high labor content that cannot compete. So the idea of let the
"market" decide has now also disapeared as we nationalise/take over
our industries.
Americas answer? Pull away from the dissemination of science and try
to remold the World (market) to match our needs. Suppression of the
meagre results in universities is such a small dent in the overall
picture. But all knew what the total end effect would be. History
shows that all that seek an empire
always over estimate their abilities to retain what their military had
won such that another new empire emerges.To increase market size while
decreasing
population wealth eventually only leads to total domination or
widespead civil strife.
Greed is a terrible thing
Pull up the ladder Jack. To heck with the others i'm O.K. and that's
the most important thing for today. Tomorrow is another day


For real. We continue to do this to ourselves.
Check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVkjCQCTOEI

I'm not saying he's right, or that we should MAKE him right, only that this
is the perspective of someone who somehow has an interest in looking into
it.

information suppression by universities
 

On Dec 8, 3:13*pm, "JB" wrote:
"Art Unwin" wrote in message

...
On Dec 8, 12:07 pm, Michael Coslo wrote:



Art Unwin wrote:
On Dec 5, 8:21 am, Michael Coslo wrote:
Art Unwin wrote:
On Dec 4, 3:02 pm, "JB" wrote:
So, you're a legend in your own mind. Your reactivity by the way
indicates
No, actually not. However, as your text indicates, I "AM SOMETHING"
you
don't see in your ghetto, thanks for the "heads-up." People DO tend
to
be a product of their environment ... again, reflected in your text.

information suppression by universities
 

Art Unwin wrote:

...
Look at the bright side Mike, The majority of this group feel O.K.
with things as they are,
and they represent the smarts of the USA of the past 50 years. Where
every thing worth while was discovered
thus lessening the need for further education plus strengthening the
right to bear arms..........for wild animals ofcourse grin
The cities will have their crystal nights ofcourse as they have done
in the past in L.A. against those that hoarded the wealth,

Actually, the technical aspects and military-ization of our police has
changed the terrain. Now you need the equiv or road-side-bombs used in
Iraq, flame throwers to burn them in their Kevlar, armor piercing
ammunition, small surface to surface missiles, etc. ... not impossible,
just more difficult.

We now need a civilian group to oversee the
president/government--perhaps one which is militia based would be
appropriate. It certainly is time this surfaces to the realm of
rational discussion ... they are no longer OUR servants! We simply have
to get their attention and focus back ...

Regards,
JS

information suppression by universities
 

On Dec 8, 5:43*pm, John Smith wrote:
Art Unwin wrote:
...
Look at the bright side Mike, The majority of this group feel O.K.
with things as they are,
and they represent the smarts of the USA of the past 50 years. Where
every thing worth while was discovered
thus lessening the need for further education plus strengthening the
right to bear arms..........for wild animals ofcourse grin
The cities will have their crystal nights ofcourse as they have done
in the past in L.A. against those that hoarded the wealth,

Actually, the technical aspects and military-ization of our police has
changed the terrain. *Now you need the equiv or road-side-bombs used in
Iraq, flame throwers to burn them in their Kevlar, armor piercing
ammunition, small surface to surface missiles, etc. ... not impossible,
just more difficult.

We now need a civilian group to oversee the
president/government--perhaps one which is militia based would be
appropriate. *It certainly is time this surfaces to the realm of
rational discussion ... they are no longer OUR servants! *We simply have
to get their attention and focus back ...

Regards,
JS

I suppose in the cities you have different views of the police but
without money
they then become part of the public, good or otherwise as in New
Orleans,
On the other hand gun sales are sky rocketing in the Midwest so one
can shoot deer I suppose
and I can't see Obama saying "let the public eat cake". On the other
side of the coin, if the public is
not paid enough to buy the products that they make it becomes a
question of living or dying, your choice!
Do you think that hams will come to the aid of the government in a
case of crisis?
I think we should let this thread die before we are accused of
sedition
Regards
Art

information suppression by universities
 

Actually, the technical aspects and military-ization of our police has
changed the terrain. Now you need the equiv or road-side-bombs used in
Iraq, flame throwers to burn them in their Kevlar, armor piercing
ammunition, small surface to surface missiles, etc. ... not impossible,
just more difficult.

We now need a civilian group to oversee the
president/government--perhaps one which is militia based would be
appropriate. It certainly is time this surfaces to the realm of
rational discussion ... they are no longer OUR servants! We simply have
to get their attention and focus back ...

Regards,
JS

I suppose in the cities you have different views of the police but
without money
they then become part of the public, good or otherwise as in New
Orleans,
On the other hand gun sales are sky rocketing in the Midwest so one
can shoot deer I suppose
and I can't see Obama saying "let the public eat cake". On the other
side of the coin, if the public is
not paid enough to buy the products that they make it becomes a
question of living or dying, your choice!
Do you think that hams will come to the aid of the government in a
case of crisis?
I think we should let this thread die before we are accused of
sedition
Regards
Art


Toilet bombs are more surgical. Catch em where they go.

Isn't sedition what we do to get ready for an election?
But then you and I don't have the Millions and Billions
to overthrow the Government with, so at best we are just
nuisance.

Actually the cops might sooner or later realize they are just
an army dangling off the end of a phone line ready to roll for
the biggest liar and might just be doing someone else's dirty
work. What's most worrisome is the ones that decide who
gets the Gov. jobs or the media jobs in the first place.
That's where we have been underestimating the enemy.
If some people want to get together to take over something,
they can pretty much do it all over people who are trying to
be fair about things.

Violent revolutions don't happen without lots of people
running around with nothing better to do, but technology
has a way of putting people way out of reach of such
unpleasantness. This is probably the biggest reason
things never progressed to a violent revolution like China
or Vietnam and capitalism never lost it's place. A well
disciplined military probably has lots to do with that too.

Obama has been saying "let them eat cake" for a long
time. I wonder if anyone caught his Dec 2 governors
meeting on the economy where he tells them "...change
is going to come from YOU, not from Washington". I was
hoping he would at least be willing to learn but the voters
have a lot to learn for sure.

information suppression by universities
 

Art Unwin wrote:

...
I suppose in the cities you have different views of the police but
without money
they then become part of the public, good or otherwise as in New
Orleans,
On the other hand gun sales are sky rocketing in the Midwest so one
can shoot deer I suppose
and I can't see Obama saying "let the public eat cake". On the other
side of the coin, if the public is
not paid enough to buy the products that they make it becomes a
question of living or dying, your choice!
Do you think that hams will come to the aid of the government in a
case of crisis?
I think we should let this thread die before we are accused of
sedition
Regards
Art

You are right, if all goes well, we stop paying the crooks and they go
home ... however ... if not ...

You will need the guns, IF the government has reason to hunt you, you
will need the guns for food (you may have to learn to eat government
officials!)--while you live off the land ... they are good, the guns.

But, doing a "Clint Eastwood" on a swat squad? Hmmm, show me?

However, knowing how to make explosives out of obtainable materials may
make a person a "technical expert", indeed, it may make one a valid
guru--something I have NOT seen in ages! Knowing that perchlorates
exist in common bleach and how to use them as oxidizers, this is good!
Knowing how to construct a flame thrower out of an air tank off a
semi-truck, some tubing, a valve and bicycle pump, and able to use any
fuel may just make one a desirable friend ... ya never know, ya just
never know ... your best ally? An open mind!

One question which is always valid, "Are we men, or are we mice?" (Or,
are we sheep, or are we free?) My father was a man (actually, a free
man--and a Freemason) ... you will have to watch me and make up your own
mind--as to myself ... :-)

But then, how do you know I am not just kidding? evil-malicious grin

When we see American Terrorists, we WILL know change is in the wind, let
it be a good change ... and let them kick those whoosie mooselims butts!

Regards,
JS

information suppression by universities
 

JB wrote:

...
Obama has been saying "let them eat cake" for a long
time. I wonder if anyone caught his Dec 2 governors
meeting on the economy where he tells them "...change
is going to come from YOU, not from Washington". I was
hoping he would at least be willing to learn but the voters
have a lot to learn for sure.


Actually, your brain has turned to jelly from lack of use ... :-(

Everything comes from you and me, it a government of the people, by the
people and for the people ...

Now, let's get to work, give 'em the bums rush, and get rid of this
group of crooks! If Obama assists, good enough, if not, let him begone
also.

Regards,
JS

information suppression by universities
 

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
JB wrote:

...
Obama has been saying "let them eat cake" for a long
time. I wonder if anyone caught his Dec 2 governors
meeting on the economy where he tells them "...change
is going to come from YOU, not from Washington". I was
hoping he would at least be willing to learn but the voters
have a lot to learn for sure.


Actually, your brain has turned to jelly from lack of use ... :-(

Everything comes from you and me, it a government of the people, by the
people and for the people ...

Now, let's get to work, give 'em the bums rush, and get rid of this
group of crooks! If Obama assists, good enough, if not, let him begone
also.

Regards,
JS

Typical red herring argument. When you don't have a answer, then proceed to
insults and character assassination. Gee, wasn't Obama from Al Capones neck
of the woods? I mean how do you beat up people for votes if you don't have
their unions and livelihood in the palm of your hand. Oh! that's right,
Obama's not a crook, he's a LAWYER! His favorite idol is Saul Alinsky (who
seems to be the hero of the party since so many quote him) who actually
worked for Al Capone! Then there's his "spiritual advisor" that he had to
distance himself after 20 years of EXPLOITATION of race and class
divisions.

Republicans keep harping about conservative "values" like personal
responsibility and not killing babies for the sake of convenience.
Democrats think of the little people as votes and "manure for the
revolution" and that its stupid to go down with your team when you can just
"throw someone under the bus" (the vernacular of ACORN).

The only difference I see is one that is shamed into following their own
rules and another who simply changes the rules or the judges.

see: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...3185000AAwKH7l

information suppression by universities
 

JB wrote:
....

Like I say it is a no-brainer, the forefathers gave us a heavy
responsibility:

Declaration of Independence
[Adopted in Congress 4 July 1776]
The Unanimous Declaration of the Thirteen United States of America

When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people
to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another,
and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal
station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a
decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should
declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
....

As true Americans, we are ordered to take back and restore a sane and
just government when our public servants forget their places ... end of
story.

Regards,
JS