On Dec 27, 8:44*pm, John Smith wrote:
RHF wrote:

OK then what is a 'matchbox' in :
* a poorly designed transmitting antenna,
* a mismatched transmitting antenna,
* a non-physically resonate transmitting antenna,

Consider the 'matchbox' to be one element
in the RF Energy Radiating System :
Feed-Line + 'matchbox' + Antenna Element

- - i want to know - iane ~ RHF
- - *.

- It would be far more "in the realm of correct" to
- consider what a matchbox DOES, rather than
- what it IS--as it is simply some combination
- of inductive and capacitive components which
- ALWAYS will induce some form of loss into
- any system it is inserted into.

Yeah - Once it is 'placed' in the "System" the MatchBox
becomes part of the "System" and becomes one of the
loses within the "System"

- However:
- *a matchbox will allow you to use a poorly designed/
- constructed antenna--it will NOT improve the antenna.

Now -if- That is True : Then Why Us The MatchBox
within an RF Energy Radiating System ?

- *a matchbox will allow you to "match" differing
- impedances to achieve proper power transfer to
- the antenna--again, it will NOT improve the
- efficiency of that antenna, and the power will be
- "simply lost" (as heat.)

So you are say that a MatchBox will not improve
the ERP of an RF Energy Radiating System ?
And that the Receiving Station will not hear you
'better' when the MatchBox is properly used with
the RF Energy Radiating System ?

- *a matchbox CAN allow you to alter the electrical
- length of an antenna--physical and electrical lengths
- are two different animals.

Electrical Characteristics = 'apparent electrical length'

- And, this is all-in-a-nut shell;

- as you realize, a proper education
- in this field is NOT a trivial thing.

A proper education in 'any' field is not a trivial thing.
And that education can take many forms : formal
practical, vocational {life time of work} and avocation
{life time hobby}

- That said, I frequently carry a cheap portable with me on trips and
- launch a longwire into a tree, etc., find acceptable signals and
enjoy
- listening ... or else, just grab the SW stations audio from the
net ...
- being an old-timer, the first is more enjoyable, for me.
-
- Regards,
- JS

being an old timer myself - i still find simply listening
to the radio to be enjoyable ~ RHF

RHF wrote:

...
Yeah - Once it is 'placed' in the "System" the MatchBox
becomes part of the "System" and becomes one of the
loses within the "System"
...

Actually, the ONLY reason to use a matchbox is that the antenna is less
than optimal for the freq(s) in question, end-of-story. However,
multi-band operation and simply having to cover a wide swath of
frequencies makes this the logical way to go, a matchbox ... in an ideal
situation, a matchbox would be avoided.


Now -if- That is True : Then Why Us The MatchBox
within an RF Energy Radiating System ?


There is nothing magical about a transmitting antenna, like I stated
earlier, the exact same physics govern that antenna in receive or xmit
modes. The matchbox allows you to achieve "maximum POOR performance"
from the POOR antenna ...

...
So you are say that a MatchBox will not improve
the ERP of an RF Energy Radiating System ?
And that the Receiving Station will not hear you
'better' when the MatchBox is properly used with
the RF Energy Radiating System ?
...

I said NO such thing, indeed, I stated the EXACT opposite, it allows
maximum power transfer to the antenna, however, the losses in the POOR
antenna are now increased due to the losses in the matchbox--as heat.
And, no problems which exist in the POOR antenna have been rectified,
they are just masked ...

...
Electrical Characteristics = 'apparent electrical length'
...

As I stated before, physical length need not be related to electrical
length, however, in the most efficient design possible, they WILL be ...
and that is only considering maximum transfer of power to the antenna,
not, necessarily, the ether--and, that is NOT necessarily related to a
desirable pattern of radiation of that power from the POOR antenna--the
patten, IMHO, is governed, mainly, by antenna length and shape, however,
some designs actually can cheat this, at least a bit.

- And, this is all-in-a-nut shell;

- as you realize, a proper education
- in this field is NOT a trivial thing.
...

being an old timer myself - i still find simply listening
to the radio to be enjoyable ~ RHF
.
.

As I stated before, a complete explanation/understanding of all factors
involved defies a simple explanation ... as, if that were possible, no
one would spend years in college, they could attend a week or a month
and come away an expert.

And, my field is computer science, this is all just a hobby with me.
The little knowledge which I have assembled has been done over the
course of years, even decades. I am hear to find out just "how deep
this rabbit hole goes ..."

Regards,
JS

John Smith wrote:


I said NO such thing, indeed, I stated the EXACT opposite, it allows
maximum power transfer to the antenna, however, the losses in the POOR
antenna are now increased due to the losses in the matchbox--as heat.
And, no problems which exist in the POOR antenna have been rectified,
they are just masked ...

That is vastly oversimplified.

Dave wrote:
John Smith wrote:


I said NO such thing, indeed, I stated the EXACT opposite, it allows
maximum power transfer to the antenna, however, the losses in the POOR
antenna are now increased due to the losses in the matchbox--as heat.
And, no problems which exist in the POOR antenna have been rectified,
they are just masked ...

That is vastly oversimplified.

Absolutely, and at some point I must trust the reader has the resources
to extrapolate; otherwise, all postings would soon turn in to the
length, depth and completeness of a college textbook ...

For example, an antenna is a two lane road, running in both
directions(T/R), the same parameters which allow it to be the best
choice for transmitting, also are in action when that same antenna
"plucks" its' signals from the ether ... something I have pointed out in
multiple ways, multiple times ...

The average person must hear, read, study the same material six times
before "learning" it. And, an instructor once pointed out to me, not
all people respond to the same method, personality, mode-of-presentation
as another or others ... so, he pointed out the importance of gathering
data from multiple sources until the "epiphany" is realized ...

Regards,
JS

John Smith wrote:
Dave wrote:
John Smith wrote:


I said NO such thing, indeed, I stated the EXACT opposite, it allows
maximum power transfer to the antenna, however, the losses in the
POOR antenna are now increased due to the losses in the matchbox--as
heat. And, no problems which exist in the POOR antenna have been
rectified, they are just masked ...

That is vastly oversimplified.

Absolutely, and at some point I must trust the reader has the resources
to extrapolate; otherwise, all postings would soon turn in to the
length, depth and completeness of a college textbook ...

For example, an antenna is a two lane road, running in both
directions(T/R), the same parameters which allow it to be the best
choice for transmitting, also are in action when that same antenna
"plucks" its' signals from the ether ... something I have pointed out in
multiple ways, multiple times ...

The average person must hear, read, study the same material six times
before "learning" it. And, an instructor once pointed out to me, not
all people respond to the same method, personality, mode-of-presentation
as another or others ... so, he pointed out the importance of gathering
data from multiple sources until the "epiphany" is realized ...

Regards,
JS

You're the guy from Lost in Space!

Dave wrote:

...
You're the guy from Lost in Space!

And, since your reasoning and manners are so ALIEN to me ... oh my gawd,
a real one! grin

Regards,
JS

In article , Dave
wrote:

John Smith wrote:
Dave wrote:
John Smith wrote:


I said NO such thing, indeed, I stated the EXACT opposite, it allows
maximum power transfer to the antenna, however, the losses in the
POOR antenna are now increased due to the losses in the matchbox--as
heat. And, no problems which exist in the POOR antenna have been
rectified, they are just masked ...

That is vastly oversimplified.

Absolutely, and at some point I must trust the reader has the resources
to extrapolate; otherwise, all postings would soon turn in to the
length, depth and completeness of a college textbook ...

For example, an antenna is a two lane road, running in both
directions(T/R), the same parameters which allow it to be the best
choice for transmitting, also are in action when that same antenna
"plucks" its' signals from the ether ... something I have pointed out in
multiple ways, multiple times ...

The average person must hear, read, study the same material six times
before "learning" it. And, an instructor once pointed out to me, not
all people respond to the same method, personality, mode-of-presentation
as another or others ... so, he pointed out the importance of gathering
data from multiple sources until the "epiphany" is realized ...


You're the guy from Lost in Space!

You are to kind Dave. The lost in Space Dr. Smith fooled some of the
people some of the time where our Smith fools none of the people none of
the time.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article , Dave
wrote:

John Smith wrote:
Dave wrote:
John Smith wrote:


I said NO such thing, indeed, I stated the EXACT opposite, it allows
maximum power transfer to the antenna, however, the losses in the
POOR antenna are now increased due to the losses in the matchbox--as
heat. And, no problems which exist in the POOR antenna have been
rectified, they are just masked ...

That is vastly oversimplified.

Absolutely, and at some point I must trust the reader has the resources
to extrapolate; otherwise, all postings would soon turn in to the
length, depth and completeness of a college textbook ...

For example, an antenna is a two lane road, running in both
directions(T/R), the same parameters which allow it to be the best
choice for transmitting, also are in action when that same antenna
"plucks" its' signals from the ether ... something I have pointed out
in
multiple ways, multiple times ...

The average person must hear, read, study the same material six times
before "learning" it. And, an instructor once pointed out to me, not
all people respond to the same method, personality,
mode-of-presentation
as another or others ... so, he pointed out the importance of gathering
data from multiple sources until the "epiphany" is realized ...


You're the guy from Lost in Space!

You are to kind Dave. The lost in Space Dr. Smith fooled some of the
people some of the time where our Smith fools none of the people none of
the time.

And who does the Telanut think he is fooling?