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What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
I know that there is some concern that cell phones may cause cancer.
But is there any possible correlation between the radio waves we use to communicate, either by commercial radio or other sources and cancer? Or what about the radio waves that are being emitted from our personal electronic appliances? I have heard that there is some concern that if you live near a power line that you may be at risk for cancer. What is the state of research into this subject? Thanks |
What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
On Sat, 16 May 2009 21:25:24 -0700 (PDT), MacaualyFlower
wrote: I know that there is some concern that cell phones may cause cancer. But is there any possible correlation between the radio waves we use to communicate, either by commercial radio or other sources and cancer? Or what about the radio waves that are being emitted from our personal electronic appliances? I have heard that there is some concern that if you live near a power line that you may be at risk for cancer. What is the state of research into this subject? This has what to do with amateur radio or antennas? I covered the topic about 2 years ago in: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.internet.wireless/msg/fd25bae4b3f10c13 The US incidence rate for brain and central nervous system cancers has been fairly flat at about 6-7 cases per 100,000 population per year since about 1975 (SEER 9). It's kinda difficult to pry a usable graph out of the web pile, so I ran the "fast stats" for long term brain cancer, for all age and ethnic groups. See: http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/brain-CNS-cancer.jpg (Note that the incidence of brain cancer is actually decreasing with time). If there were a correlation between cell phone use and cancer, one would expect to see at least a nominal rise in brain cancer incidence, as cell phone use has dramatically increased the same time period. The current FCC position on RF safety is at: http://www.fcc.gov/oet/rfsafety/ http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Documents/bulletins/oet60/oet60a.pdf Your risk of dying from a vehicle accident, while driving and talking on a cell phone, is far greater than the alleged risk of contracting cancer. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
On Sat, 16 May 2009 22:07:17 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote: I covered the topic about 2 years ago in: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.internet.wireless/msg/fd25bae4b3f10c13 The US incidence rate for brain and central nervous system cancers has been fairly flat at about 6-7 cases per 100,000 population per year since about 1975 (SEER 9). It's kinda difficult to pry a usable graph out of the web pile, so I ran the "fast stats" for long term brain cancer, for all age and ethnic groups. See: http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/brain-CNS-cancer.jpg Sorry, I forgot to include the URL of the cancer data: http://seer.cancer.gov/faststats/selections.php?series=cancer -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
This has what to do with amateur radio or antennas?
Amateur radio uses radio waves, and I believe that antennas propagate them and receive them don't they? But in any case, I thank you for your answer. |
What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
On Sat, 16 May 2009 21:25:24 -0700 (PDT), MacaualyFlower
wrote: I know that there is some concern that cell phones may cause cancer. Actually, there is probably a higher correlation between cancer and talking into your hand. But is there any possible correlation between the radio waves we use to communicate, either by commercial radio or other sources and cancer? You could almost pump the odds to 100% by standing in front of an open microwave ever day. Now, if I were to move that 1 in the 100 to the right by 5 places (0.001%) would you feel better, or worse? What if it were less than your chances for being hit by a car by simply stepping out of your house? Not exactly cancer there, I will admit, and perhaps a more compelling outcome (you might live another 20 years with cancer, but only 15 minutes more impaled as a hood ornament). Or what about the radio waves that are being emitted from our personal electronic appliances? We have entered the realm of getting out of bed to suffer being struck by a comet. I have heard that there is some concern that if you live near a power line that you may be at risk for cancer. Can you name 5 people (not related to each other) who do not live near a power line? With luck, they will die of Heart disease first. For most of us, that line is no further than 8 feet away. What is the state of research into this subject? Settled. Of course, there are those who thrill to the thought of a slow death like Camille's. Those romantics generally seek out confirmatory evidence. Research, for their benefit, marches on. 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC |
What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
So far, there is no correlation between non-ionizing radiation and cancer,
which includes cellphones in the 800 - 900 MHz band. Ed, AJ4PJ "MacaualyFlower" wrote in message ... I know that there is some concern that cell phones may cause cancer. But is there any possible correlation between the radio waves we use to communicate, either by commercial radio or other sources and cancer? Or what about the radio waves that are being emitted from our personal electronic appliances? I have heard that there is some concern that if you live near a power line that you may be at risk for cancer. What is the state of research into this subject? Thanks |
What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
On Sat, 16 May 2009 22:50:04 -0700 (PDT), MacaualyFlower
wrote: This has what to do with amateur radio or antennas? Amateur radio uses radio waves, and I believe that antennas propagate them and receive them don't they? But in any case, I thank you for your answer. Ok. That's closer than most of the off topic rubbish the pollutes most newsgroups. I can see you logic. After reading some of the postings in this newsgroup, I too might suspect that exposure to RF and antennas might produce insanity, illogic, political conservatism, and delusions of omniscience. Incidentally, someone wrote me noting the peak on the graph around 1985 and offering various theories as to the origin of the peak. I should point out that the total variation over 30 years (from 0.6 ppm to 0.7 ppm) yields a total variation of 0.001%. That's well within statistical error limits, and is essentially flat. The most likely reason for the slight increase in incidence is that PET scanners became available for diagnosis in the early 1980's, which probably produced a small increase in additional early diagnosis cases. This peak tapered off as PET scans became routine. There's also the issue of delayed reactions to RF exposure. This is certainly a real possibility as some cancers appear perhaps 20 years after exposure. However, with such a huge increase in cell phone use between 1975 and 2006, there's not even the slightest indication in the cancer incidence curves of a corresponding, but delayed, increase. If anything, there's a slight decrease in brain cancer incidence, which suggests that using a cell phone may help PREVENT brain cancer. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
On May 16, 9:25*pm, MacaualyFlower
wrote: I know that there is some concern that cell phones may cause cancer. But is there any possible correlation between the radio waves we use to communicate, either by commercial radio or other sources and cancer? *Or what about the radio waves that are being emitted from our personal electronic appliances? *I have heard that there is some concern that if you live near a power line that you may be at risk for cancer. *What is the state of research into this subject? Thanks This has nothing to do with radio waves (electromagnetic radiation), but there is ALWAYS a correlation between any thing. Correlation goes from -1 to +1, passing through zero. So, yes, there is a correlation, but it may be negative, it may be zero, or it may be positive, but it is always something. Paul, KD7HB |
What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
There's also the issue of delayed reactions to RF exposure. This is certainly a real possibility as some cancers appear perhaps 20 years after exposure. The delay for skin cancer risk after sun exposure (which is also EM rad) is more like 40 years. |
What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
On Mon, 18 May 2009 12:36:07 +1000, Clifford Heath
wrote: Jeff Liebermann wrote: There's also the issue of delayed reactions to RF exposure. This is certainly a real possibility as some cancers appear perhaps 20 years after exposure. The delay for skin cancer risk after sun exposure (which is also EM rad) is more like 40 years. Yep. We may be dead before symptoms appear. http://www.healthnewsflash.com/conditions/skin_cancer.php In addition, skin cancer is related to lifetime exposure to UV radiation. Most skin cancers appear after age 50, but the sun's damaging effects begin at an early age. Therefore, protection should start in childhood to prevent skin cancer later in life. It's possible that brain cancer induced by RF exposure might work the same way. At this time, there's no evidence of such a mechanism. Widespread handheld cell phone use started in about 1990. If it really takes 40 years to see problems, we'll just have to wait until 2030. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
It's possible that brain cancer induced by RF exposure might work the same way. The IEEE Spectrum magazine reported the following: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/40764.php -- 73, Cecil, IEEE, OOTC, http://www.w5dxp.com |
What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
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What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
On Mon, 18 May 2009 06:24:56 -0500, Cecil Moore
wrote: Jeff Liebermann wrote: It's possible that brain cancer induced by RF exposure might work the same way. The IEEE Spectrum magazine reported the following: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/40764.php Yep. Using the NCI statistics I previously excavated, the incidence of new brain and CNS cases is about 6 cases per 100,000 population per year. The current population of Sweden is 9.2 million. Assuming the same cancer rate in Sweden as the US, that's 552 cases of brain cancer per year. Where did they find 905 brain cancer victims in a country that only generates 552 cases per year? Perhaps the numbers seem a bit odd? I haven't read the original report, but my guess(tm) the 240% higher risk is due to statistical anomalies resulting from using small samples culled from extremely small incidence rates. All it takes is one or two more events (cases), and the results look like 100% or 200% increases. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Where did they find 905 brain cancer victims in a country that only generates 552 cases per year? That's not the question. The question is: Where on earth did you get the idea that benign tumors and cancer are the same thing? Hint: They are not. -- 73, Cecil, IEEE, OOTC, http://www.w5dxp.com |
What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
On Mon, 18 May 2009 13:21:48 -0500, Cecil Moore
wrote: Jeff Liebermann wrote: Where did they find 905 brain cancer victims in a country that only generates 552 cases per year? That's not the question. The question is: Where on earth did you get the idea that benign tumors and cancer are the same thing? Hint: They are not. Oops. You're right. The original question was about RF and cancer. I didn't notice that the Swedish study apparently (not sure without reading the study) includes both malignant and benign brain tumors. It may also not include CNS (central nervious system) tumors, which the ACI graph I presented does include. I couldn't find the article in question due to the vague references, but did manage to find another article on the same topic by the same author: "Symptoms Experienced in Connection with the Use of Digital and Analog Mobile Phones for Poeple Using Both Transmitter Systems: A Swedish-Norwegian Epidemiological Study." http://www.springerlink.com/content/k2k224/?p=414fd7433b85492a967c4624feddf2ca&pi=0 It appears to be part of the book "Wireless Phones and Health II". I also found a series of other articles dealing with RF exposure and medicine by Kjell Mild, but no source for the original article under "International Archives of Occupational and Environmental Health". Incidentally, one of my neighbors recently had a brain tumor removed. She didn't use a cell phone prior to the diagnosis, but bought one so she could remain in contact during the treatment and recovery. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
On Mon, 18 May 2009 16:38:21 GMT, Panzer240
wrote: MacaualyFlower wrote in news:eac83182-542b- : I know that there is some concern that cell phones may cause cancer. But is there any possible correlation between the radio waves we use to communicate, either by commercial radio or other sources and cancer? Or what about the radio waves that are being emitted from our personal electronic appliances? I have heard that there is some concern that if you live near a power line that you may be at risk for cancer. What is the state of research into this subject? Thanks Troll-o-meter 0--------------------------100 Pegged!!!! Caution! As a radio amateur I must be lucky if my neighbours don't claim headaches and nervous irritation the day after I put up my new antenna. Better keep oneself in good shape regarding the arguments. |
What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Ok. That's closer than most of the off topic rubbish the pollutes most newsgroups. I can see you logic. After reading some of the postings in this newsgroup, I too might suspect that exposure to RF and antennas might produce insanity, illogic, political conservatism, and delusions of omniscience. . . The effect seems to peak at about 75 meter wavelength, with a minor peak at about 2 meters. The cautious and same amateur will avoid exposure to those wavelengths. Roy Lewallen, W7EL |
What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
Roy Lewallen wrote:
The effect seems to peak at about 75 meter wavelength, with a minor peak at about 2 meters. The cautious and same amateur will avoid exposure to those wavelengths. I of course meant "sane" and not "same". My apology for the typo. Roy Lewallen, W7EL |
What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
"Roy Lewallen" wrote in message line... Roy Lewallen wrote: The effect seems to peak at about 75 meter wavelength, with a minor peak at about 2 meters. The cautious and same amateur will avoid exposure to those wavelengths. I of course meant "sane" and not "same". My apology for the typo. Roy Lewallen, W7EL Of course, it is a given that the only truly sane band is six meters. Ed, AJ4PJ |
What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
On Tue, 19 May 2009 10:30:44 -0700, Roy Lewallen
wrote: Jeff Liebermann wrote: Ok. That's closer than most of the off topic rubbish the pollutes most newsgroups. I can see you logic. After reading some of the postings in this newsgroup, I too might suspect that exposure to RF and antennas might produce insanity, illogic, political conservatism, and delusions of omniscience. . . The effect seems to peak at about 75 meter wavelength, with a minor peak at about 2 meters. The cautious and same amateur will avoid exposure to those wavelengths. Roy Lewallen, W7EL Ham radio has its very own industry specific cancer called "cancer of the vocabulary". Upon over-exposure to RF, a fairly normal individual will soon develop symptoms which include ultra-long monologs, inserting "ahhhhh" between sentences, foaming at the mouth, phonetic alphabet creativity, and an apparently irresistible urge to eat microphones. An early indication of impending trouble is a tendency to identify oneself with a call sign after leaving a voicemail message. Advanced cases exhibit additional symptoms of language aberrations, political conservatism, compulsive knob twiddling, an insatiable desire to listen for intelligence in random white noise, a preference toward high wire acrobatics, and strangely coded speech. After several decades of RF exposure, the victim may show symptoms of pontification, pomposity, self-authority, and ossification of the technology. While not fatal, cancer of the vocabulary has been known to cause divorce, impoverishment, and curmudgeonificiation. Unfortunately, the symptoms are not reversible, even when the victim has withdrawn from ham radio for extended periods, such as to raise a family. Despite almost a century of historical data, little effort has been made to correlate RF exposure with cancer of the vocabulary. I suspect this may be due to the efforts of the ARRL to block such research. While it is obvious that different frequencies had different effects, it would be both interesting and useful if the connection were properly researched and documented. For example, it's apparent that exposure to low frequency (HF) waves causes a marked preference for noisy environments, the exact opposite effect is found after exposure to high frequencies (VHF), where signal clarity is preferred. This phenomenon and others should be investigated. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
connection were properly researched and documented. For example, it's apparent that exposure to low frequency (HF) waves causes a marked preference for noisy environments, the exact opposite effect is found after exposure to high frequencies (VHF), where signal clarity is preferred. This phenomenon and others should be investigated. Obviously you've never been interested in weak signal V/U/SHF or EME. These tend to lead to shack environmental noise levels approximating WWII destroyer engine rooms. Another side effect is hearing CW in wind noise when driving at over 60mph. tom K0TAR |
What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
On Wed, 20 May 2009 13:01:07 -0500, Tom Ring
wrote: Jeff Liebermann wrote: connection were properly researched and documented. For example, it's apparent that exposure to low frequency (HF) waves causes a marked preference for noisy environments, the exact opposite effect is found after exposure to high frequencies (VHF), where signal clarity is preferred. This phenomenon and others should be investigated. Obviously you've never been interested in weak signal V/U/SHF or EME. These tend to lead to shack environmental noise levels approximating WWII destroyer engine rooms. Another side effect is hearing CW in wind noise when driving at over 60mph. tom K0TAR I've done a little of that at VHF frequencies using various digital modes. I was considering organizing a new certificate for "Worked all Digital Modes", but every time I add a new mode to my computah, someone invents yet another digital mode. http://www.kb9ukd.com/digital/ http://www.wb8nut.com/digital.html With weak signal digital modes, there's no way to actually hear the signal as it's well below the noise floor. Waterfall displays work nicely for copying extremely slow CW. It's a little like modern astronomy. Most astronomers never look through the eyepiece of a telescope these days. Although I'm not a CW operator, when I was into Field Day, it took several days for me to NOT listen for weak signals under the noise of conversation, traffic, AM/FM radio noises, etc. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
I've done a little of that at VHF frequencies using various digital modes. I was considering organizing a new certificate for "Worked all Digital Modes", but every time I add a new mode to my computah, someone invents yet another digital mode. http://www.kb9ukd.com/digital/ http://www.wb8nut.com/digital.html With weak signal digital modes, there's no way to actually hear the signal as it's well below the noise floor. Waterfall displays work nicely for copying extremely slow CW. It's a little like modern astronomy. Most astronomers never look through the eyepiece of a telescope these days. Well, the June VHF QSO Party is in about 3 weeks. Try some non-digital weak signal. It's fun! I'll be the primary op on our 6m station running under the club call W0AUS from EN34. No high power this year since we'll be within LOS of the Twin Cities metro at maybe 300 feet above local average terrain. We'll be multimulti 6 through 10G, probably all bands. I've done some of the digital modes. High speed meteor burst, MFSK, and PSK31 - really weak stuff with power as low as 50mW back when almost no one was on it. My personal favorite is Hellschreiber, it's the oldest (as far as I know) and sounds so cool. Although I'm not a CW operator, when I was into Field Day, it took several days for me to NOT listen for weak signals under the noise of conversation, traffic, AM/FM radio noises, etc. Yup, after 24 to 40 hours of noise with embedded weak or even not weak CW and SSB and almost no sleep, you start to hear lots of things. tom K0TAR |
What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
On May 19, 12:30*pm, Roy Lewallen wrote:
Jeff Liebermann wrote: Ok. *That's closer than most of the off topic rubbish the pollutes most newsgroups. *I can see you logic. *After reading some of the postings in this newsgroup, I too might suspect that exposure to RF and antennas might produce insanity, illogic, political conservatism, and delusions of omniscience. . . The effect seems to peak at about 75 meter wavelength, with a minor peak at about 2 meters. The cautious and same amateur will avoid exposure to those wavelengths. Roy Lewallen, W7EL Some will probably be skeptical, but I've actually felt the effects of RF when operating on the HF bands. I forgot what band it was, but it was one of the lower ones, "80 or 40", and I was working CW from my mobile. "parked" It took a QSO or two before I realized the RF was effecting me. But I noticed I was starting to feel funny. It's hard to describe the effects. But I noticed I didn't feel quite right, and it was an uneasy queasy type of feeling. Then I started to notice that the feeling would subside when I quit transmitting and was listening to the other station. When I would go back to transmit, I would slowly start to feel weird again. I then kind of decided it was the RF hitting me from the rear of the car, through the window. That particular car was a monte carlo, and the antenna was on the trunk, with the loading coil fairly low. So a lot of RF was beaming into the back of my head due to the location of the antenna. I was running the usual 100w. So anyway, I don't know about any cancer dilemma, but I know in some cases, it's possible to feel RF on the HF bands. Or at least I seemed to.. I didn't like the feeling of it at all. Was not a burning or anything, it made you feel real nervous and uneasy. Pretty weird.. :/ |
What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
wrote:
I didn't like the feeling of it at all. At Texas A&M in the 50's, we had a radar in the EE building with the antenna on the roof. Once, someone was working on the antenna when someone else turned the radar on. They rushed the guy on the roof to the hospital in an ambulance. I don't recall the rest of the story. -- 73, Cecil, IEEE, OOTC, http://www.w5dxp.com |
What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
As a radio amateur I must be lucky if my neighbours don't
claim headaches and nervous irritation the day after I put up my new antenna. Better keep oneself in good shape regarding the arguments. For real!! It's jokes like these that catch the attention of superstitious tree huggers and vegans who wind up protesting by throwing themselves under the bus in order to promote new legislation. After more than 30 years as an avid Ham and professional radio tech, NO ONE I know of in the business or Hams, have suffered from cancer outside of the occasional Squamous cell skin problems from too much Solar exposure on building roofs and towers. |
What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
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What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Was not a burning or anything, it made you feel real nervous and uneasy. Pretty weird.. :/ Probably if I hadn't had the following experience, I would think you were kinda loony, Jeff. But I know exactly what you describe. Several times in my 4th semester in college a good friend and myself would ditch English class and drive up to Mt. Wilson, the mountain peak above Los Angeles where almost all of its radio and TV antenna installations are. There have to be several megawatts of VHF and UHF ERP up there. Each time we made the trek in his Pinto station wagon, almost as soon as we rounded the final bend at the top, I would start to feel nauseous. I couldn't stay up there for more than a few minutes, and for several hours afterward I would have what I came to call an 'RF headache'-- a dull, debilitating haze that affected my focus and appetite. I don't know how anyone who has to work up there does it, having to live in that environment. Al W6LX |
What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
It is likely a bit more complicated than this..
MacaualyFlower wrote: I know that there is some concern that cell phones may cause cancer. But is there any possible correlation between the radio waves we use to communicate, either by commercial radio or other sources and cancer? Or what about the radio waves that are being emitted from our personal electronic appliances? I have heard that there is some concern that if you live near a power line that you may be at risk for cancer. What is the state of research into this subject? Thanks From what I understand, there is a pretty solid set of data now collected that extended use of cell phones actually does cause high frequency hearing loss! That from the effects of the RF on the little hairs and the sensors they drive which let the human hear sounds. I've seen comments that there is now a pretty much 100% proof that this does happen. Which does make a bit more practical sense for I suspect most of us here. In the case of cell phone (or equivalent RF use, such as Blackberry or wireless headset stuff), I think most folks here could suspect that the VHF frequencies involved would make a lot more practical sense for this thought than HF and so on... Of course more than 20 minutes a day of greater than 85DB over room reference quiet level of any audio sounds, especially the BOOM, BOOM, BOOM of base in songs and such, also produces permanent hearing loss for the person involved over time. And with what also goes on in the automobile use for people seems to include boom box issues as well as cell phone issues for many folks. So one would also wonder to what extent either of these two motivators for hearing loss might conflict with research work into such things. W5WQN -- -- Sleep well; OS2's still awake! ;) Mike Luther |
What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
On Thu, 21 May 2009 19:29:24 -0700, "Al Lorona"
wrote: Jeff Liebermann wrote: Was not a burning or anything, it made you feel real nervous and uneasy. Pretty weird.. :/ Probably if I hadn't had the following experience, I would think you were kinda loony, Jeff. But I know exactly what you describe. Please watch the attributions. I didn't write that quote. Several times in my 4th semester in college a good friend and myself would ditch English class and drive up to Mt. Wilson, the mountain peak above Los Angeles where almost all of its radio and TV antenna installations are. I spent quite a bit of time up at Mt Wilson in the late 1960's. I certainly had RF effects, but the causes were obvious. My teeth would hurt. What was happening was the metal in the fillings was getting slightly warm. The lousy job the original dentist did left a gap under the filling, which was full of air, bacteria, crud, whatever. Heat up the fillings, and the air tries to expand. If it hits the nerve, my teeth would hurt. This went on for several years until I had some removed and replaced with the unleaded variety. I also have a small stainless plate where my skull was fractured while I was trying to play gang member (at age 14). I eventually outgrew the plate and had it replaced with a plastic and fake bone version. The RF induced pains magically went away. There have to be several megawatts of VHF and UHF ERP up there. Most of it goes over your head as the antenna patterns are towards the horizon, not under the towers. Even so, there's still quite a bit floating around. I didn't worry much about the RF. It was the falling blocks of ice when the TV station xmitter baby sitter didn't bother turning on the de-icer until the VSWR climbed. By then, there was quite a bit of ice on the antennas. Nothing like big ice blocks falling from 500ft to ruin my evening. Most went right threw the corregated steel roof on the commercial radio buildings that sat under the towers. The blocks didn't do much damage to the radios, which were in racks and boxes. However, it did a great job of peeling off all the coax cables and control wires. Each time we made the trek in his Pinto station wagon, almost as soon as we rounded the final bend at the top, I would start to feel nauseous. Probably the fumes from the Pinto. In college, I worked part time for a local Ford dealer fixing electrical systems in mostly Pintos and Mavericks. I'd say you were lucky to have made it up the hill. I couldn't stay up there for more than a few minutes, and for several hours afterward I would have what I came to call an 'RF headache'-- a dull, debilitating haze that affected my focus and appetite. I don't know how anyone who has to work up there does it, having to live in that environment. Probably different people have different sensitivity levels. I spent about 8 days up there helping with a messy install. I never felt anything exept some altitude sickness (at 5700ft) which affected my sleep. However, that was in the 1960's, where there were far fewer xmitters on Mt Wilson. These days, you could probably heat your lunch by simply waving it in the air. Al W6LX |
What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
... wrote: Some will probably be skeptical, but I've actually felt the effects of RF when operating on the HF bands. I forgot what band it was, but it was one of the lower ones, "80 or 40", and I was working CW from my mobile. "parked" It took a QSO or two before I realized the RF was effecting me. I believe you. I have felt the effects of using a cell phone for an extended time. A warmth sensation. And not the batteries. There is no question that at some level, tissue heating is noticeable, and I can attest that RF burns tissue at higher levels. When working in the near field of antenna farms this helps you to determine where you should linger and where you shouldn't. Some people linger in the sun too long. Some people are more sensitive to tissue heating than others. Still, after working in the near field of 900 paging antennas with ERPs of 1 to 10 kw, along with numerous other antennas it is hard for me to imagine that a 300 mw cell phone could even be sensed, let alone cause damage. I have seen people who actually complain of RF symptoms with the power off, even in anguish as if in pain or being tortured, conviced that they were being exposed, while thinking nothing of it when they actually were. It would seem to me that a great many people are highly suggestable as evidenced by the changes in our society to conform to media demoralization. There is even commercials for HULU that makes great light of this. Yuri Bezmenov, who defected from the KGB in the 70s warned us about their constant and unrelenting demoralizion techniques to render whole societies unable to come to rational decisions even when confronted with the obvious. He joked that they could tell you the sky was Black so often, that even when they showed you it was really Blue, you wouldn't believe it. Someone mentioned hearing loss. This is an issue I have noticed, but not from RF but from high frequency noise. Many people didn't like CDs because they didn't sound right, and Solid State amplifiers when transitioning from Tube types. Now with some DSP implementations. I noticed this right away with a certain radio that didn't sound bad but was completely irritating and fatiguing to listen to for more than a few minutes until I started using an external speaker with a tailored response. Subsequent to that episode I experienced an overnight hearing loss in one ear of all frequencies over about 1500 Hz in that ear along with a peak at that frequency that is quite tender. It is a known fact that CW ops who use headphones are more prone to hearing loss, so I would really like to see more research and solutions there. |
What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
Cecil, W5DXP wrote:
"They rushed the guy on the toof to the hospital in an ambulance." I`ve always thought the only effect if RF on humans to be heat and burns from my personal experience of extreme exposure throughout my long life. I`ve spent years with a megawatt all around me. Recently i`ve read the defense department has a nonlethal highpower pulsed micrlwave weapon which incapacitates anyone in its beam. It is also said the military has little interest in nonlethal weapons. Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI |
What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
In article ,
Cecil Moore wrote: wrote: I didn't like the feeling of it at all. At Texas A&M in the 50's, we had a radar in the EE building with the antenna on the roof. Once, someone was working on the antenna when someone else turned the radar on. They rushed the guy on the roof to the hospital in an ambulance. I don't recall the rest of the story. This would all depend on the type of Radar, and it's specific Transmitting Characteristics. Some military radars of that era were in the Megawatt Peak Pulse Power range, and these "could" have Biological Issues in the near field. Very few radars of that era, were CW, Frequency Agile, or Spread Spectrum Radars, with High Power CW outputs. Much more likely, would be the Antenna, smacked the guy, physically, and, or knocked him off the ladder, he may have been standing on, when it started turning, unexpectedly.... This type of injury is still very common, even on commercial Marine and Aircraft Search Radars, that don't have the Peak Pulse Power Levels, even at the Antenna Radiator Surface, to cause Biological Heating Issues. Bruce in alaska -- Bruce in alaska add path after fast to reply |
What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
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What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
Dr. Barry L. Ornitz wrote:
This can produce cataracts. The effect was seen among many early experimenters with microwaves and many members of the military. working with high power radars. So while the new weapon Richard talks about is non-lethal, it can easily cause blindness. This may be why the military is not so interested. I have seen demonstrations of one of these devices on one or another cable channel. I believe they mentioned a frequency in the 60GHz range. They also mentioned the penetration depth on skin was something like a mm. The effect is supposed to feel like instant extremely severe sunburn. You WILL leave the area immediately. They tested it on one of the hosts of the show. He moved out of the area of the effect very quickly. Given the desire of the subjects to get the hell out of Dodge when the system was pointed at them, I doubt cataracts would be an issue. Don't take any numbers I stated here as correct, it was a while ago. tom K0TAR |
What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
"Tom Ring" wrote in message
. net... Dr. Barry L. Ornitz wrote: This can produce cataracts. The effect was seen among many early experimenters with microwaves and many members of the military. working with high power radars. So while the new weapon Richard talks about is non-lethal, it can easily cause blindness. This may be why the military is not so interested. I have seen demonstrations of one of these devices on one or another cable channel. I believe they mentioned a frequency in the 60GHz range. They also mentioned the penetration depth on skin was something like a mm. The effect is supposed to feel like instant extremely severe sunburn. You WILL leave the area immediately. They tested it on one of the hosts of the show. He moved out of the area of the effect very quickly. Given the desire of the subjects to get the hell out of Dodge when the system was pointed at them, I doubt cataracts would be an issue. Don't take any numbers I stated here as correct, it was a while ago. Tom, I have seen the video too. But 1 millimeter penetration depth is still enough to do serious damage to the eye. I doubt if this weapon ever makes it into production. Is anyone familiar with the Hague Conventions in relation to this? -- 73, Dr. Barry L. Ornitz WA4VZQ |
What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
On Fri, 22 May 2009 20:01:10 -0400, "Dr. Barry L. Ornitz"
wrote: The ONLY effect that radio frequencies can do to humans is thermal. Well, not exactly. Pulsed RF can be "heard". The original 1962 article: http://www.raven1.net/frey.htm Military applications: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14250-microwave-ray-gun-controls-crowds-with-noise.html There's also some research into resonant vibrational effects of the modulation frequency (i.e. GSM 217Hz buzz) on various cellular structures. I don't recall the results (and am too lazy to find them). Light reading: Biological Effects Research: http://www.bioelectromagnetics.org/pubs.php http://www.bioelectromagnetics.org/resources.php The FCC position: http://www.fcc.gov/oet/rfsafety/ http://www.fcc.gov/oet/info/documents/bulletins/#56 http://www.fcc.gov/oet/info/documents/bulletins/#56 Handbook of Biological Effects of Electromagnetic Fields: http://books.google.com/books?id=PZd_2UJrwdwC Google searches for papers on the topic. http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=radio+frequency+biological+effects http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=biological+effects+of+electromagnetic+fi elds Suggestions for furthur research: 1. Why does expsosure to RF seem to cause a compulsion for beginning hams to upgrade their licenses? 2. Does the presence of RF cause cell phone users to yell into the handset, while non-RF POTS phone users show now such tendencies? -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
"Dr. Barry L. Ornitz" wrote in message ... snip It was found that at many restaurants, the doors were taken off the units and the ovens were operated continuously. Litton soon provided interlocks on the doors! People would place food into the cavity without turning off the microwaves. Other than a few thermal burns, no one was seriously hurt by the ovens - with one exception. I installed a 10-foot TVRO at home in 1985 and read an inordinate amount of material on the subject in the 1980's. I read a "don't let this happen to you" story about an experimenter who supposedly used a microwave oven magnetron as a local oscillator for his own TVRO. He didn't shield it properly and received fatal heating injuries to his internal organs. Possibly BS, possibly accurate. I tried finding some reference to it on the Internet but was unsuccessful. Anybody remember the story? The LO for a C-band TVRO is 5150 MHz, nowhere near a Microwave oven freq (2450) but its second harmonic, 4900, is a candidate for block downconversion of some of the channels. "Sal |
What is the correlation between radio waves and cancer?
"Dr. Barry L. Ornitz" wrote in message ... [Thread meandered to non-lethal weapons, specifically the 60 GHz crowd-control weapon.] snip Is anyone familiar with the Hague Conventions in relation to this? Article 23(e) of the 1907 Hague Convention prohibits the use of "arms, projectiles or materials calculated to cause unnecessary suffering." Great ... now define "unnecessary." "Sal" |
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