Cecil Moore wrote:
tom wrote:
... bring on more cold summers!

Caused, no doubt, by Global Warming. :-)

Of course, but it's "Climate Change", that way no matter what happens it
the fault of humanity.

On a similar note, has anyone noticed how the sun's output has a lot to
do with the climate? And that it sort of tracks what's going on? Ok,
tracks quite well.

tom
K0TAR

tom wrote:
On a similar note, has anyone noticed how the sun's output has a lot to
do with the climate? And that it sort of tracks what's going on? Ok,
tracks quite well.

Something else that tracks quite well is the size
of the ice caps at the North Poles of both Earth
and Mars proving, beyond a doubt, that there must
be intelligent life on Mars generating emissions
that effect Climate Change, just like here. :-)
--
73, Cecil, IEEE, OOTC, http://www.w5dxp.com

Cecil Moore wrote:
Something else that tracks quite well is the size
of the ice caps at the North Poles of both Earth
and Mars proving, beyond a doubt, that there must
be intelligent life on Mars generating emissions
that effect Climate Change, just like here. :-)

So what we have proof of here is that alien life exists and is much
further advanced than we are!

I think The President should spend billions of dollars on this!
Actually billions is nothing in this blow money on crap budget, we
should spend a trillion on it. THIS IS IMPORTANT!!!! And there is no
one with more smarts than The President (TM).

tom
K0TAR

On Jul 31, 8:51*am, Cecil Moore wrote:
tom wrote:
... bring on more cold summers!

Caused, no doubt, by Global Warming. :-)
--
73, Cecil, IEEE, OOTC, *http://www.w5dxp.com

Cecil, your observation regarding the breakage of the ice caps tells
us that we are moving back to a particular climate that in the past
was normal! We can learn about that and past environments by
examining the different layers of ice. The last ice cap to shear
revealed a
reed coracle occupied by people in animal fur holding stone tools.
None of these had green cards which emphasizes what goes around comes
around with additions supplied by man

Art Unwin wrote:
On Jul 31, 8:51 am, Cecil Moore wrote:
tom wrote:
... bring on more cold summers!
Caused, no doubt, by Global Warming. :-)
--
73, Cecil, IEEE, OOTC, http://www.w5dxp.com

Cecil, your observation regarding the breakage of the ice caps tells
us that we are moving back to a particular climate that in the past
was normal!

There is no such thing as a normal climate. It changes over time, and
short term is very variable.



We can learn about that and past environments by
examining the different layers of ice. The last ice cap to shear
revealed a
reed coracle occupied by people in animal fur holding stone tools.
None of these had green cards which emphasizes what goes around comes
around with additions supplied by man

Man has no effect upon the weather? Fine, show me the mechanism by which
the retention of heat in the atmosphere is not affect by the percentage
of greenhouse gases and water vapor. We would not exist without the
effect, so discarding the effect is impossible.

So now, WHY is the increased percentage being negated. To show a heat
retention effect is not difficult, middle school students do it all the
time.

But what we get is political statements. A political statement declaring
that the greenhouse effect doesn't exist is just as valid as noting
that since the present administration has been in office, there haven't
been any hurricanes. So therefore, there are less hurricanes when
Democrats are in office. Of course that's a stupid statement. But both
statements are. non-sequitar maximus.

BTW, mining the available data to produce one anomalous result is just
as bogus. The creationists and lunar landing hoaxers have been doing
that for years. You have to produce the theory first, then find
supporting or refuting facts. The deniers don't produce an alternate
theory - they only try to disprove.


- 73 de Mike N3LI -

Art Unwin wrote:
We can learn about that and past environments by
examining the different layers of ice.

You're right, Art. The last Global Warming cycle
peaked about 8000 years ago and ever since, the
average temperature has been drifting down toward
the next ice age. That is obvious to anyone who can
read a graph.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...core-petit.png

Global Warming is the second biggest hoax ever
perpetuated upon mankind.
--
73, Cecil, IEEE, OOTC, http://www.w5dxp.com

Michael Coslo wrote:
Man has no effect upon the weather? Fine, show me the mechanism by which
the retention of heat in the atmosphere is not affect by the percentage
of greenhouse gases and water vapor. We would not exist without the
effect, so discarding the effect is impossible.

Therefore, get rid of all the water and CO2? It
appears from the following graph that C02 density
is a lagging indicator introducing the next ice age.
25000 years from now, those greenhouse gases will
come in really handy.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...core-petit.png
--
73, Cecil, IEEE, OOTC, http://www.w5dxp.com

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
Michael Coslo wrote:
Man has no effect upon the weather? Fine, show me the mechanism by which
the retention of heat in the atmosphere is not affect by the percentage
of greenhouse gases and water vapor. We would not exist without the
effect, so discarding the effect is impossible.

Therefore, get rid of all the water and CO2? It
appears from the following graph that C02 density
is a lagging indicator introducing the next ice age.
25000 years from now, those greenhouse gases will
come in really handy.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...core-petit.png
--
73, Cecil, IEEE, OOTC, http://www.w5dxp.com
-
Besides that.....earth has bigger catastrophic threats than CO2.

Cecil Moore wrote:
Michael Coslo wrote:
Man has no effect upon the weather? Fine, show me the mechanism by
which the retention of heat in the atmosphere is not affect by the
percentage of greenhouse gases and water vapor. We would not exist
without the effect, so discarding the effect is impossible.

Therefore, get rid of all the water and CO2?

Hmmm, did you get that I was inferring that from saying we would not
exist without the Greenhouse effect? I'm not trying to eliminate everyone.




It
appears from the following graph that C02 density
is a lagging indicator introducing the next ice age.
25000 years from now, those greenhouse gases will
come in really handy.

Aren't you arguing both sides of the issue now, Cecil? If Greenhouse
induced warming is bogus, then those gases won't come in handy, will they?

Given that climate change is going to happen regardless of human input,
I'd make a guess that at the turning point of a heating cycle, the
oceanic currents will shift, due to loss of ice blockage at the poles.
Then, the change is agumented/mitigated by solar output. Also
augumenting/repressing is effects such as atmospheric dust and sulfur
dioxide content, and yes, the amount of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere.

All this gives rise to varying average temperatures, and depending on
the timing, can make a greater or lesser cooling or heating effect.

Now given that there is a lot of natural variability, does it follow
that humans should pay no mind to their own additions to the load?

I believe that we need to find out the effect, and the extent of the effect.

Taking the idea of the greenhouse gases coming in handy, I can envision
being at one of those sharp drops in Temperature, and using gases to
moderate the temperature. There is a lot of Methane in the form of
clathrate hydrates, that might just spell the survival of humanity. Or
maybe not. Maybe we should know what it will do.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...core-petit.png

Looks to me like a pretty fair correlation, Cecil. Now what I am
interested in is the event that occurred at those peaks, and also the
valleys. It's fairly sharp. I don't doubt that as things rapidly cooled,
that there was a reduction in CO2 in the atmosphere. What was the cause?
It's a great graph for speculation. Interestingly regular.

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

Michael Coslo wrote:
What was the cause?

Certainly not homo sapiens. I strongly suspect
the primary source of energy in our solar system
is the cause. Now what could that be?
--
73, Cecil, IEEE, OOTC, http://www.w5dxp.com