On Sep 22, 6:58*pm, "christofire" wrote:
"Art Unwin" wrote in message

...
On Sep 22, 6:28 pm, "christofire" wrote:



"Art Unwin" wrote in message

....
On Sep 22, 6:51 am, "christofire" wrote:

"Art Unwin" wrote in message

- - snip - -

* As I say, you should present your theory to sci.physics and
sci.physics.research if you have any interest in checking whether it is
correct, and not limit its exposure to this group. Do let us know when
you
have posted there.

No, that is not the choice I have made. I decided to merge a paper
aproach with that of a patent request . You have read one patent
request and you have to wait for the PTO to print out the concluding
application. I am sharing it with industry and not the boneheads
who bunch themselves into secret rooms away from those outside who
cannot possibly provide anything of interest. They have the common
interest that if it doesn't come from them..........!!!!!! Pretty much
the same as this group. We shall see
Art

* OK, at an appropriate juncture I'll invite some of them to come over and
take a look at what you write here (crossposting would probably be frowned
upon). It might be enlightening to receive the views of some physicists..

Chris

If you know of any I would welcome their views. There are many retired
educated people in this world today that turn to that which they had
an interest with when young. Now it is difficult to get up to speed in
different sciences because various journals get the rights of various
papers from Universities e.t.c which are then denied to libraries and
the public.
This is a resource the country should assist because its costs are low
and where all have
large experience obtained thru their working years. Imagine
professionals who when retired
have twenty or more years of experience be allowed to follow and
contribute in areas where an interest has laid dormant for so long.
Today's efforts are applied to computers where data comes out in
bundles which have to be sorted to determine if anything good is being
offered by using a mish mash of arithmetic formulae that are merged
with similar formulae from different functions. *Sad, sad, sad.

* It's true that a lot of effort is put into the areas that yield the
greatest profit, and computing in one form or another does seem to have a
grip at the moment. *However, it is enlightening to take a look from time to
time at news groups like the two I named to see the sorts of things they are
discussing, and the _unbounded_ nature of the universe (which is what I
wrote) is one of them. *They too appear to have input from ex-professionals.

Have you ever tried to obtain access to a technical library in a university
or one of the engineering institutions? *You might be surprised how easy or
inexpensive it turns out to be. *As a member of the general public I have
access to the IET library in London to read as much as I wish, and to
photocopy.

Chris

Yes, some university libraries allow access to the public but not for
copies. These must
come from journals at quite high prices. Here you can be a member of a
professional society say IEEE but to get the journals of say antennas
and propagation then you must pay a couple of $100 to have access to
them. This is on top of the fees for the institution and the group
that you are personally a member of which also requires fees. But the
U.S. is not like being in London where you can take the tube to any
where such as the patent office library or visit the one on Birdcage
Walk ( Royal Institution of Mechanical Engineers in the old days)
I am not aware of this IET that you mentioned. Here in Illinois which
is the size of the UK plus has a population that London sees every
day of the week! One library I would like to get into is on
Whitechapel road in Stepney ( Queen Mary college) where extensive work
is done on antennas. Anyway what I do is to start right at the
beginning ie first principles
and with antennas stuck in a rut for so long it was a good one for me
as a retired person
to fiddle with as it was nice to talk to my buddies at BAC St Albans
and nearby towns when radio itself was a hobby for me but most have
now passed away. Now I have finished my personal antenna studies and I
will have to turn to the honey doos that have piled up over the last
few years even tho I have had a handy man come in regularly even so I
go thru periods where every thing that I own is broken and I must turn
away from my hobbies.

On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 18:12:09 -0700 (PDT), Art Unwin
wrote:

Yes, some university libraries allow access to the public but not for
copies. These must
come from journals at quite high prices. Here you can be a member of a
professional society say IEEE but to get the journals of say antennas
and propagation then you must pay a couple of $100 to have access to
them. This is on top of the fees for the institution and the group
that you are personally a member of which also requires fees.

Ummm... IEEE full membership is now $175/year. Membership in the
Antennas and Progagation group is $24/year.
http://www.ieee.org/web/membership/Cost/dues.html
That's about 4000 pages for the extra $24.

If you are a retired former IEEE member, currently unemployed,
disabled, or are working for only peanuts or stock options, you can
get up to a 50% discount on dues.
http://www.ieee.org/web/membership/Cost/special_circumstances.html

You can see the articles in each past issue at:
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/RecentIssue.jsp?puNumber=8

If you're a cheap tightwad non-member, like me, you can buy individual
articles ala carte for $29 each:
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/guide/g_tools_apo.jsp

If you don't mind just older papers, a member can buy the DVD with
everything from AP-S from 1952-2000:
http://www.ict.csiro.au/aps/cdrom.htm
for $100.

If you're a non-member, you really pay hansomly for the printed
publications.
http://www.ieee.org/portal/cms_docs_iportals/iportals/publications/subscriptions/info/IEEE_Sub_Price_List_2010.pdf
For example, the Antenna and Propagation IEEE Transactions for a year
(12 issues) costs $1,200.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 23:59:59 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

For example, the Antenna and Propagation IEEE Transactions for a year
(12 issues) costs $1,200.

Or you can go to the library and read (and copy) them for free.

Oh, and yes, If you have access to an engineering library on campus.

Oh, and yes, if they let you back on campus..... Sorry, some (Art)
have spit on too many professors.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 08:25:12 -0700, Richard Clark
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 23:59:59 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

For example, the Antenna and Propagation IEEE Transactions for a year
(12 issues) costs $1,200.

Or you can go to the library and read (and copy) them for free.

The local Santa Cruz libraries are in serious financial trouble. The
main library has severely limited hours, while the satellite branches
are only open two to five days per week.
http://www.santacruzpl.org/news/2009/jun/09/new-hours-all-branches-effective-july-1-2009/
None of the local libraries stock IEEE AP-S Transactions.

Oh, and yes, If you have access to an engineering library on campus.

I joined the UCSC "Friends of the Library" association in order to
obtain an account. $35 to $60/year.
http://giving.ucsc.edu/giving_detail.php?web_id=631
Most IEEE Transactions are available online from off campus.
http://library.ucsc.edu/gateways/gateways-for-visitors-and-neighbors
Most colleges have similar arrangements. I would also join my alumni
association (Cal Poly, Pomona), which offers similar privileges, but
find the local college more convenient. However, there's a catch.
Most of the online IEEE AP-S Transactions are about a year or more
behind. The various libraries seem to prefer annual subscriptions,
which means most recent issues are often unavailable. If that
happens, I either pay the price of the download (only if desperate),
or borrow an issue from a friend with a subscription.

Oh, and yes, if they let you back on campus..... Sorry, some (Art)
have spit on too many professors.

Most of the stuff is available online. No need to visit the campus.
However, when I do, the real problem is parking. There isn't much
available. Going to the UCSC library is a major expedition for me.

I suspect that Art will be ok at a library, as long as he doesn't
bring his soap box and attract attention by loudly denouncing the
content of the physics, antenna design, or grammar books.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 10:41:38 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

I joined the UCSC "Friends of the Library" association in order to
obtain an account. $35 to $60/year.
http://giving.ucsc.edu/giving_detail.php?web_id=631

I went to re-join. Now it's $75/year.
http://library.ucsc.edu/giving/friends/friends-of-the-library-membership-benefits
Sigh...



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 10:41:38 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

Oh, and yes, if they let you back on campus..... Sorry, some (Art)
have spit on too many professors.

Most of the stuff is available online. No need to visit the campus.
However, when I do, the real problem is parking. There isn't much
available. Going to the UCSC library is a major expedition for me.

Hi Jeff,

For me, its a short ride on one bus. I'm on campus twice a week. As
an Alumni, I get library privileges.

I suspect that Art will be ok at a library, as long as he doesn't
bring his soap box and attract attention by loudly denouncing the
content of the physics, antenna design, or grammar books.

He would be lost in the din of the LaRouche crowd (although he might
fit in with them their Coriolis politics).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Sep 23, 12:41*pm, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 08:25:12 -0700, Richard Clark
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 23:59:59 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

For example, the Antenna and Propagation IEEE Transactions for a year
(12 issues) costs $1,200.

Or you can go to the library and read (and copy) them for free. *

The local Santa Cruz libraries are in serious financial trouble. *The
main library has severely limited hours, while the satellite branches
are only open two to five days per week.
http://www.santacruzpl.org/news/2009/jun/09/new-hours-all-branches-ef...
None of the local libraries stock IEEE AP-S Transactions.

None of the public libraries in Illinois stock them either





Oh, and yes, If you have access to an engineering library on campus.

I joined the UCSC "Friends of the Library" association in order to
obtain an account. *$35 to $60/year. *

Now that is interesting!
Visitors can only get on line if the University have them on their
list as being invited
Time period 45 days. I understand that you can't get copies because of
copywrite laws and oversite by the societies so I assume they get
freebees.
There is some pressure on lab schools to place results on the web
since it is public money. The Governor signed a bill a little while
ago on transparency as to where the money goes
But then nobody actually follow all the laws in Chicago and down
state.


http://giving.ucsc.edu/giving_detail.php?web_id=631
Most IEEE Transactions are available online from off campus.
http://library.ucsc.edu/gateways/gateways-for-visitors-and-neighbors
Most colleges have similar arrangements. *I would also join my alumni
association (Cal Poly, Pomona), which offers similar privileges, but
find the local college more convenient. *However, there's a catch.
Most of the online IEEE AP-S Transactions are about a year or more
behind. *The various libraries seem to prefer annual subscriptions,
which means most recent issues are often unavailable. *If that
happens, I either pay the price of the download (only if desperate),
or borrow an issue from a friend with a subscription.

Oh, and yes, if they let you back on campus..... *Sorry, some (Art)
have spit on too many professors.

Most of the stuff is available online. *No need to visit the campus.
However, when I do, the real problem is parking. * There isn't much
available. *Going to the UCSC library is a major expedition for me.

I suspect that Art will be ok at a library, as long as he doesn't
bring his soap box and attract attention by loudly denouncing the
content of the physics, antenna design, or grammar books.

--
Jeff Liebermann * *
150 Felker St #D * *http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann * * AE6KS * *831-336-2558

On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:45:39 -0700 (PDT), Art Unwin
wrote:

I joined the UCSC "Friends of the Library" association in order to
obtain an account. *$35 to $60/year. *

That was about 3 years ago. The price these daze is $75.
http://library.ucsc.edu/giving/friends/friends-of-the-library-membership-benefits
Some other changes. See corrections below.

Now that is interesting!
Visitors can only get on line if the University have them on their
list as being invited
Time period 45 days. I understand that you can't get copies because of
copywrite laws and oversite by the societies so I assume they get
freebees.

Chicago public library seems to have some IEEE Transactions:
http://www.chipublib.org/search/results/?searchType=keyword&terms=IEEE&x=0&y=0
but not Ants and Props. Typing "antenna" into the search box offers
117 books on the subject. That should keep you busy for a while.

There is some pressure on lab schools to place results on the web
since it is public money. The Governor signed a bill a little while
ago on transparency as to where the money goes
But then nobody actually follow all the laws in Chicago and down
state.

There's nothing that prevents you from joining the UCSC or other
university library and ignoring your local problems.

http://giving.ucsc.edu/giving_detail.php?web_id=631

Sigh. The link to joining the Friends of the Library seems to be
broken.

However, there's a catch.
Most of the online IEEE AP-S Transactions are about a year or more
behind. *The various libraries seem to prefer annual subscriptions,
which means most recent issues are often unavailable. *If that
happens, I either pay the price of the download (only if desperate),
or borrow an issue from a friend with a subscription.

Things have changed in the last few years. UCSC now contracts
directly with the IEEE for their online IEEE Transactions. No more
missing recent issues. However, I can't determine if Ants and Props
are available or even if the UCSC Friends of the Library are still
active. I'll inquire shortly as this is much cheaper than joining the
IEEE.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS