KD7HB wrote:
On Sep 22, 7:47 pm, "David Hare-Scott" wrote:
I have a 5.8GHz digital cordless phone system (two handsets and base
station) that has reasonable range. It works fine inside the house
and within about 30-50m of the house outside. The house is steel
frame clad with cementitious planking and plasterboard lining, and
has a steel roof.

Is it possible to improve the range of the handsets outside the
house using simple supplementary aerials or by relocating the base
station? If so where might I find design details?

I am competent with tools (I built the house) but don't know much
about radio.

David

David, before you give up, you can ALWAYS add an external antenna by
capacitively coupling the to antenna. Try this:

I live in a older triple wide manufactured home with aluminum siding.
The door bell on the front door was mechanical. There was no bell for
the back and no way to put in standard wired bells. I bought a pair of
electronic battery operated bells. The central unit always hears the
front door bell because it is 10 feet away and through glass windows.

The back door bell unit could not be heard by the control unit unless
the two doors leading to the outside were open. Not much good that
way. I cured the problem by drilling a hole just above the outside
push button unit and running a solid copper wire through the hole and
bent the end into a circle and left it close to the bell unit. Inside
the "mud room", I ran the wire several feet up and over a storm door
and along the ceiling toward the actual house. Still one aluminum
covered wall between the wire and the central bell unit. Now the
central unit always hears the back pus button unit. If it couldn't, I
was prepared to run the wire on into the house a ways.

So, try running a wire from the phone base unit to the outside of your
house. Experiment with length and placement to see if you get improved
distance. My electronic bell runs in the 300 MHz range, but may well
work for your unit, as well.

Good luck, Paul KD7HB

So the picture I am getting is that I coil some insulated wire around the
base station's stubby aerial a few times and then run it outside the house
and up high. Then play around with length and placement. Is that the idea?
Is the guage of the wire significant?

David

On Sep 23, 6:59*pm, "David Hare-Scott" wrote:
KD7HB wrote:
On Sep 22, 7:47 pm, "David Hare-Scott" wrote:
I have a 5.8GHz digital cordless phone system (two handsets and base
station) that has reasonable range. It works fine inside the house
and within about 30-50m of the house outside. The house is steel
frame clad with cementitious planking and plasterboard lining, and
has a steel roof.

Is it possible to improve the range of the handsets outside the
house using simple supplementary aerials or by relocating the base
station? If so where might I find design details?

I am competent with tools (I built the house) but don't know much
about radio.

David

David, before you give up, you can ALWAYS add an external antenna by
capacitively coupling the to antenna. Try this:

I live in a older triple wide manufactured home with aluminum siding.
The door bell on the front door was mechanical. There was no bell for
the back and no way to put in standard wired bells. I bought a pair of
electronic battery operated bells. The central unit always hears the
front door bell because it is 10 feet away and through glass windows.

The back door bell unit could not be heard by the control unit unless
the two doors leading to the outside were open. Not much good that
way. I cured the problem by drilling a hole just above the outside
push button unit and running a solid copper wire through the hole and
bent the end into a circle and left it close to the bell unit. Inside
the "mud room", I ran the wire several feet up and over a storm door
and along the ceiling toward the actual house. Still one aluminum
covered wall between the wire and the central bell unit. Now the
central unit always hears the back pus button unit. If it couldn't, I
was prepared to run the wire on into the house a ways.

So, try running a wire from the phone base unit to the outside of your
house. Experiment with length and placement to see if you get improved
distance. *My electronic bell runs in the 300 MHz range, but may well
work for your unit, as well.

Good luck, Paul KD7HB

So the picture I am getting is that I coil some insulated wire around the
base station's stubby aerial a few times and then run it outside the house
and up high. *Then play around with length and placement. *Is that the idea?
Is the guage of the wire significant?

David

Don't coil it around, just place it near to the antenna. At the most,
just a single loop around the base of the antenna. Gauge is not
important.

Paul

On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 11:45:31 -0700 (PDT), KD7HB
wrote:

So, try running a wire from the phone base unit to the outside of your
house. Experiment with length and placement to see if you get improved
distance. My electronic bell runs in the 300 MHz range, but may well
work for your unit, as well.

Any wire that is excited at a wavelength where the wire is
significantly longer than one wavelength, then this wire stands the
high chance of turning into an end fire antenna. This means if that
wire goes up, so will the signal - straight up (with any number of
very minor lobes in all other directions).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Sep 24, 10:37*am, Richard Clark wrote:
On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 11:45:31 -0700 (PDT), KD7HB
wrote:

So, try running a wire from the phone base unit to the outside of your
house. Experiment with length and placement to see if you get improved
distance. *My electronic bell runs in the 300 MHz range, but may well
work for your unit, as well.

Any wire that is excited at a wavelength where the wire is
significantly longer than one wavelength, then this wire stands the
high chance of turning into an end fire antenna. *This means if that
wire goes up, so will the signal - straight up (with any number of
very minor lobes in all other directions).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Hi, Richard.
I learned of this trick many years ago, 1960's time frame. Portland
drilled a second tunnel through a ridge on West Burnside street,
making it two lanes each direction. Drivers began complaining that
their radio reception always went out when they entered the tunnel.
Duh!!! Everyone said nothing could be done, This was the way radio
worked.

One engineer said he could fix it. They mounted insulators in the
tunnel ceiling, and strung a wire the full length of the tunnel. On
the East side, they ran the wire up somewhere on the hillside. I never
was able to determine just where it went. The antenna picked up the
local am/fm signals and radiated them in the tunnel. Drivers could
continue to listen to the radio when they went into the tunnel. Volume
was reduced sometimes, but reception continued.

I wonder if hf and vhf ham radio operation is possible in the tunnel?

I see the same wire trick in other tunnels. The I-90 tunnels East of
Seattle have the wire.

Paul, KD7HB

In article
,
KD7HB wrote:

Don't coil it around, just place it near to the antenna. At the most,
just a single loop around the base of the antenna. Gauge is not
important.

Paul

and you call yourself a Ham? Just where did you get the idea that you
can couple to a 5.8 Ghz Antenna, by wrapping a loop around it, and then
feed an External Antenna? Sonny, this may work for you, at 0.0 - 200 Mhz,
but it sure isn't going to work at 5.8 Ghz.

On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 10:57:19 -0700 (PDT), KD7HB
wrote:

Hi, Richard.
I learned of this trick many years ago, 1960's time frame. Portland
drilled a second tunnel through a ridge on West Burnside street,
making it two lanes each direction. Drivers began complaining that
their radio reception always went out when they entered the tunnel.
Duh!!! Everyone said nothing could be done, This was the way radio
worked.

One engineer said he could fix it. They mounted insulators in the
tunnel ceiling, and strung a wire the full length of the tunnel. On
the East side, they ran the wire up somewhere on the hillside. I never
was able to determine just where it went. The antenna picked up the
local am/fm signals and radiated them in the tunnel. Drivers could
continue to listen to the radio when they went into the tunnel. Volume
was reduced sometimes, but reception continued.

I wonder if hf and vhf ham radio operation is possible in the tunnel?

I see the same wire trick in other tunnels. The I-90 tunnels East of
Seattle have the wire.

Paul, KD7HB

Hi Paul,

You can get the same thing going through the tunnel north of the
Golden Gate bridge (this from my experience of 50 years ago).

What these couplings are, for AM at least, are evanescent waves, what
current science calls Plasmons. Others here cut and paste reports of
Tunneling (of the relativistic kind, not the hole in a mountain kind)
- all the same thing, none of which is understood by those who simply
push the copy button on a Xerox.

As the frequency rises, however, it is harder to propagate that energy
90 degrees off the wire unless you are within one quarter to one third
of a wavelength away (which now brings rise to parasitic coupling - as
I said all of this is the same stuff).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Hi Paul

More for interest rather than on topic.

I use to work for the company that did a tunnel rebroadcast systems for
a series of motorway tunnels in Sydney (Australia) back about 5 years ago.

It had to cover a number of operating freqs, mainly AM, FM, cell phones
and certain VHF/UHF comms. Most were active rebroadcast and effectively
were same frequency linear repeaters. The tunnel helped not letting
radiation out as well. Reradiating was done with two cables the length
of the tunnel. AM was a single wire and the rest was via leaky coax. The
single wire was resistive terminated at one end and coupled with some
large toroidal transformer at the source end. I dont remember all the
details but think that the toried had multiple inputs.

We also had a class A amplifier system on a UHF freqency. (about 401MHz
from memory) It had two yagis spaced maybe 20ft apart facing opposite
directions in the tunnel. Enough isolation was achieved to not cause
feedback and of course we had a second pair of yagis stacked above that
for the other direction.

You even find "mine comms" systems that work in a similar vein.

Interesting story about the Portland & Seatle systems, thanks!

Cheers Bob VK2YQA

KD7HB wrote:


I see the same wire trick in other tunnels. The I-90 tunnels East of
Seattle have the wire.

Paul, KD7HB