On Dec 7, 1:27*pm, JIMMIE wrote:
On Dec 6, 5:44*am, EI5DD wrote:

Would anyone have a copy of an article from either 73 or CQ magazine
somewhere around the 90's which contained an article on how to
construct a Fractal Quad antenna for 10 metres. The design was based on
work done by Nathan Coen N1IR.

Steve (EI5DD)

--
EI5DD

Folding wire in a fractal pattern to shorten an antenna is probably as
good as any other way of folding wire. Maybe better than some.

JImmie

Correct, Maxwell's laws referes only to the distributed loads which
remain in place no matter what you do to the wire. For way to long the
notion of straight radiators have been staked into the folk lore of
radio
by those who oppose change. Actually it was present members of this
particular group who attacked his ideas as a false technology without
presenting proof, only derision. A line eagerly joined by the pseudo
experts from the CB era, some of which remain today.

For way to (sic) long the
notion of straight radiators have been staked into the folk lore of
radio
by those who oppose change.

Why would anybody object to bending wires? Your need for drama is
psychopathic. Cohen met with derision because he WAS a buffoon. And so
are you Art.

On Dec 7, 3:18*pm, Art Unwin wrote:
On Dec 7, 1:27*pm, JIMMIE wrote:





On Dec 6, 5:44*am, EI5DD wrote:

Would anyone have a copy of an article from either 73 or CQ magazine
somewhere around the 90's which contained an article on how to
construct a Fractal Quad antenna for 10 metres. The design was based on
work done by Nathan Coen N1IR.

Steve (EI5DD)

--
EI5DD

Folding wire in a fractal pattern to shorten an antenna is probably as
good as any other way of folding wire. Maybe better than some.

JImmie

Correct, Maxwell's laws referes only to the distributed loads which
remain in place no matter what you do to the wire. For way to long the
notion of straight radiators have been staked into the folk lore of
radio
by those who oppose change. Actually it was present members of this
particular group who attacked his ideas as a false technology without
presenting proof, only derision. A line eagerly joined by the pseudo
experts from the CB era, some of which remain today.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Antenna physically shortened by bending the wires is certainly not new
to amateur radio as any ham with a small yard will atest. To say that
these antennas will work without degradation when compared to their
unaltered counterparts is just wrong.

Jimmie.

JIMMIE wrote:
On Dec 7, 3:18 pm, Art Unwin wrote:
On Dec 7, 1:27 pm, JIMMIE wrote:





On Dec 6, 5:44 am, EI5DD wrote:
Would anyone have a copy of an article from either 73 or CQ magazine
somewhere around the 90's which contained an article on how to
construct a Fractal Quad antenna for 10 metres. The design was based on
work done by Nathan Coen N1IR.
Steve (EI5DD)
--
EI5DD
Folding wire in a fractal pattern to shorten an antenna is probably as
good as any other way of folding wire. Maybe better than some.
JImmie
Correct, Maxwell's laws referes only to the distributed loads which
remain in place no matter what you do to the wire. For way to long the
notion of straight radiators have been staked into the folk lore of
radio
by those who oppose change. Actually it was present members of this
particular group who attacked his ideas as a false technology without
presenting proof, only derision. A line eagerly joined by the pseudo
experts from the CB era, some of which remain today.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Antenna physically shortened by bending the wires is certainly not new
to amateur radio as any ham with a small yard will atest. To say that
these antennas will work without degradation when compared to their
unaltered counterparts is just wrong.


That's the point I don't get, Jimmie. I don't know that anyone is
saying these antennas don't work. I think its a matter of just how well
they work. The answer is often "not very".

Yes, we can get a lot of things to radiate. Wires folded in a fractal
pattern will radiate, so will wires folded in a random pattern. Woe is
the day someone gets a patent on "random".

Antennas that are a tuned circuit on top of a length of coax will
radiate - at least the coax will.

So what? When I was a kid I made a little model of a radio telescope
antenna out of copper wire and Aluminum foil. It was about 12 inches in
diameter. Took a wire and attached it to an old radio. It worked better
than no wire attached. Not that I'm going to promote it as a good
antenna though.

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

Michael Coslo wrote in
:

Woe is
the day someone gets a patent on "random".

Nope. Celebrate it. If it happens the patent system will lose credibility as
a protection, let alone value for money, and people will rely on copyright
law instead. Maybe that needs reform but the patent system is irredeemable in
my view. The sooner it is terminally discredited the better.

That was off-topic, I know, but I withstood a few temptations already, and I
won't get carried away. I don't expect everyone to agree so I won't argue it.
if someome makes something work, and can get paid for the actual work, good
for them, I don't think anyone should stand in the way of that. If people
want to protect ideas, write them down, date them, and copyright them. That
way plagiarism is preventable but suppression of anything remotely resembling
it is not a legal option. And people won't be able to make claims for garbage
while citing patents that shouldn't have been granted anyway, and wouldn't,
if those granted could understand what was behind the obfuscating nonsense
that some try to pass as a real invention.

/rant.

On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 11:29:51 -0500, Michael Coslo
wrote:

Woe is
the day someone gets a patent on "random".

Go to:
http://www.google.com/patents
and inscribe "random" or "random antenna" into the search box.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 11:29:51 -0500, Michael Coslo
wrote:

Woe is
the day someone gets a patent on "random".

Go to:
http://www.google.com/patents
and inscribe "random" or "random antenna" into the search box.


I did google fractal. I can see that the different inventors do seem to
be using similar fractals for their antennas. It looks to me as if what
is needed for me to design my own without fear of infringement would be
to just do some minor change, get my own patent, then there ya go.

Cohen's particular patents seem just fine as far as I can see.

Not specifically involved with fractals, but with the concept of patents
in general, it looks as if we are seeing intellectual property rights
run rampant. While no one should be denied the fruits of their
cleverness, the system has devolved to the point where people are just
ginning up patents with minor changes in hopes that someone infringes on
them. Then they hit the jackpot, you bet.

The system kind of reminds me of the rednecks who play the disability
lottery, hoping to get hurt so they can collect.

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

On Dec 9, 2:42*pm, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 11:29:51 -0500, Michael Coslo
wrote:

Woe is
the day someone gets a patent on "random".

That should be my wife.

Jimmie

Art Unwin wrote:
On Dec 7, 1:27 pm, JIMMIE wrote:
On Dec 6, 5:44 am, EI5DD wrote:

Would anyone have a copy of an article from either 73 or CQ magazine
somewhere around the 90's which contained an article on how to
construct a Fractal Quad antenna for 10 metres. The design was based on
work done by Nathan Coen N1IR.
Steve (EI5DD)
--
EI5DD
Folding wire in a fractal pattern to shorten an antenna is probably as
good as any other way of folding wire. Maybe better than some.

JImmie

Correct, Maxwell's laws referes only to the distributed loads which
remain in place no matter what you do to the wire. For way to long the
notion of straight radiators have been staked into the folk lore of
radio
by those who oppose change. Actually it was present members of this
particular group who attacked his ideas as a false technology without
presenting proof, only derision. A line eagerly joined by the pseudo
experts from the CB era, some of which remain today.


So does this fractal antenna perform better than any other antenna? They
seem like a solution so a specific problem, not as the sort of thing you
would use if say you wanted high performance or had space to put a more
conventional antenna into service.

- 73 de Mike N3LI -