"Jim Lux" wrote
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
"K1TTT" wrote

So I look he http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_radio_mast

"This technique works by applying a DC ground at a point of minimum
radiofrequency voltage, conducting static charge to ground without
diminishing the radio energy. Static electrical charge can build up to
high values, even at times of no thunderstorm activity, when such tall
structures are insulated from ground."

Would be interesting to know the value of the DC current.

Do you agree that it is the field emission (loss of electrons)?
S*


No.. it's plain old corona discharge or triboelectric charging from
particulates

"Static electrical charge can build up to high values".

It take place during transmmiting.
Without grounding do not work.

I simply want to know "the value of the DC current".

Do you know it in your station?
S*

Szczepan Bialek wrote:
"Jim Lux" wrote
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
"K1TTT" wrote
So I look he http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_radio_mast

"This technique works by applying a DC ground at a point of minimum
radiofrequency voltage, conducting static charge to ground without
diminishing the radio energy. Static electrical charge can build up to
high values, even at times of no thunderstorm activity, when such tall
structures are insulated from ground."

Would be interesting to know the value of the DC current.

Do you agree that it is the field emission (loss of electrons)?
S*

No.. it's plain old corona discharge or triboelectric charging from
particulates

"Static electrical charge can build up to high values".

It take place during transmmiting.
Without grounding do not work.

I simply want to know "the value of the DC current".


Would that be the so-called "fair weather current" about 1 pA/square meter?

Obviously, a big metal tower is going to perturb the local field, so a
tower with a cross section of 1 square meter is going to have a current
a lot bigger than 1pA.

But probably not microamps.

OTOH, a big tower could have substantial capacitance to ground.. I don't
recall off hand what the capacitance of a isolated cylinder is..
I seem to recall that for a rod with lengthdiameter, it's something
like 50pF/meter.

So, a 100 m tower will be 5000 pF.

Say the current is 1000 pA.

In one second, the voltage would be 1E-9/5E-9 = 0.2V

In a minute, 30V
In 10 minutes, 300V..

etc

Probably not enough to charge to voltages quickly enough to be a problem.

Tribocharging from dust and other particulates blowing in the wind is a
LOT faster and a bigger problem.

"Jim Lux" wrote
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"Static electrical charge can build up to high values".

It take place during transmmiting.
Without grounding do not work.

I simply want to know "the value of the DC current".

Would that be the so-called "fair weather current" about 1 pA/square
meter?

It is flowing all the time. We are interesting in the transmissing time.

Obviously, a big metal tower is going to perturb the local field, so a
tower with a cross section of 1 square meter is going to have a current a
lot bigger than 1pA.

But probably not microamps.

OTOH, a big tower could have substantial capacitance to ground.. I don't
recall off hand what the capacitance of a isolated cylinder is..
I seem to recall that for a rod with lengthdiameter, it's something like
50pF/meter.

So, a 100 m tower will be 5000 pF.

Say the current is 1000 pA.

In one second, the voltage would be 1E-9/5E-9 = 0.2V

In a minute, 30V
In 10 minutes, 300V..

etc

It is a free energy .

Probably not enough to charge to voltages quickly enough to be a problem.

Tribocharging from dust and other particulates blowing in the wind is a
LOT faster and a bigger problem.

It works in the both directions. Charged tower lose charges.
S*

On Jun 24, 8:38*am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
*"Jim Lux" ...



Szczepan Bialek wrote:
*"K1TTT" wrote

So I look hehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_radio_mast

"This technique works by applying a DC ground at a point of minimum
radiofrequency voltage, conducting static charge to ground without
diminishing the radio energy. Static electrical charge can build up to
high values, even at times of no thunderstorm activity, when such tall
structures are insulated from ground."

Would be interesting to know the value of the DC current.

Do you agree that it is the field emission (loss of electrons)?
S*

No.. it's plain old corona discharge or triboelectric charging from
particulates

"Static electrical charge can build up to high *values".

It take place during transmmiting.
Without grounding do not work.

I simply want to know "the value of the DC current".

Do you know it in your station?
S*

there is no static build up while transmitting from an antenna
isolated from ground. easily measured and proved here every day.

"K1TTT" wrote
...
On Jun 24, 8:38 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:

I simply want to know "the value of the DC current".

Do you know it in your station?

there is no static build up while transmitting from an antenna
isolated from ground. easily measured and proved here every day.

See; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_(electricity)
" In electronic circuit theory, a "ground" is usually idealized as an
infinite source or sink for charge, which can absorb an unlimited amount of
current without changing its potential."

"The use of the term ground (or earth) is so common in electrical and
electronics applications that circuits in portable electronic devices such
as cell phones and media players as well as circuits in vehicles such as
ships, aircraft, and spacecraft may be spoken of as having a "ground"
connection without any actual connection to the Earth. This is usually a
large conductor attached to one side of the power supply (such as the
"ground plane" on a printed circuit board) which serves as the common return
path for current from many different components in the circuit."

" no static build up while transmitting " because your station has ground.
S*

On Jun 25, 7:24*am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
*"K1TTT" ...
On Jun 24, 8:38 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:



I simply want to know "the value of the DC current".

Do you know it in your station?
there is no static build up while transmitting from an antenna

isolated from ground. *easily measured and proved here every day.

See;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_(electricity)
" In electronic circuit theory, a "ground" is usually idealized as an
infinite source or sink for charge, which can absorb an unlimited amount of
current without changing its potential."

"The use of the term ground (or earth) is so common in electrical and
electronics applications that circuits in portable electronic devices such
as cell phones and media players as well as circuits in vehicles such as
ships, aircraft, and spacecraft may be spoken of as having a "ground"
connection without any actual connection to the Earth. This is usually a
large conductor attached to one side of the power supply (such as the
"ground plane" on a printed circuit board) which serves as the common return
path for current from many different components in the circuit."

" no static build up while transmitting " because your station has ground..
S*

you are almost as much fun as art with his magical levitating
neutrinos.

no, i have antennas that are isolated from ground. they are fed
through a capacitor that prevents the charge from flowing to ground
and they do not get charged over time. i know this because when a
thunderstorm is nearby they build up enough charge to arc over the
capacitor. if there was charge being constantly emitted when they are
transmitting the capacitor would arc all the time.

Uzytkownik "K1TTT" napisal w wiadomosci
...
On Jun 25, 7:24 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:

See; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_(electricity)
" In electronic circuit theory, a "ground" is usually idealized as an
infinite source or sink for charge, which can absorb an unlimited amount
of
current without changing its potential."

"The use of the term ground (or earth) is so common in electrical and
electronics applications that circuits in portable electronic devices such
as cell phones and media players as well as circuits in vehicles such as
ships, aircraft, and spacecraft may be spoken of as having a "ground"
connection without any actual connection to the Earth. This is usually a
large conductor attached to one side of the power supply (such as the
"ground plane" on a printed circuit board) which serves as the common
return
path for current from many different components in the circuit."

" no static build up while transmitting " because your station has
ground.
S*

you are almost as much fun as art with his magical levitating
neutrinos.

I am as much fun like Tesla, the father of radio.

no, i have antennas that are isolated from ground. they are fed
through a capacitor that prevents the charge from flowing to ground

Your station produces asymetrical pulses. The all real waves are not
symmetrical. The insulator in the capacitor is a poor conductor but its
surface is large.
It CONDUCTS because the pulses are not symmetrical.

and they do not get charged over time.

They must: " In electronic circuit theory, a "ground" is usually idealized
as an
infinite source or sink for charge, which can absorb an unlimited amount of
current without changing its potential."

The electronic circuit theory is the ruler in your station. Not EM.

i know this because when a
thunderstorm is nearby they build up enough charge to arc over the
capacitor. if there was charge being constantly emitted when they are
transmitting the capacitor would arc all the time.

Your capacitor is fit to transmitting not for lightnings.
S*

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

I am as much fun like Tesla, the father of radio.

The only thing you have in common with Tesla is you both got senile.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

wrote news
Szczepan Bialek wrote:

I am as much fun like Tesla, the father of radio.

The only thing you have in common with Tesla is you both got senile.

Before that Tesla did a little (from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla ): "Tesla's patents and
theoretical work formed the basis of modern alternating current (AC)
electric power systems, including the polyphase system of electrical
distribution and the AC motor, which helped usher in the Second Industrial
Revolution."

"After his demonstration of wireless communication through radio in 1894 and
after being the victor in the "War of Currents", he was widely respected as
one of the greatest electrical engineers who worked in America.[2"

: ""Nikola Tesla wrote: " I showed that the universal medium is a gaseous
body
in which only longitudinal pulses can be propagated, involving alternating
compressions and expansions similar to those produced by sound waves in the
air. Thus, a wireless transmitter does not propagate Hertz waves, which are
a myth, but sound waves in the ether, behaving in every respect like those
in the air, except that, owing to the great elastic force and extremely
small density of the medium, their speed is that of light."

Of course the all abowe is funny.
Do you read the Maxwell's works?
S*

On 6/25/2010 12:06 PM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:

They must: " In electronic circuit theory, a "ground" is usually idealized
as an
infinite source or sink for charge, which can absorb an unlimited amount of
current without changing its potential."

Your mistake here is to assume that because they can sink current that
the are sinking DC current. The "ground", as you like to think about it
may carry current during the RF cycle, but there is nothing that would
cause an unbalanced charge buildup since it IS symmetrical.

tom
K0TAR