Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

"K1TTT" wrote
...
On Jul 23, 8:48 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
"Jim Lux"
...



IIRC the purpose is to primarily drain off the static charges so the
gnd-cloud potential difference is minimized. A direct strike will
usually
just melt whole house wiring, etc. etc.

Not true.

The cloud has SO MUCH charge you don't stand a chance of bleeding it
off.

Each cloud has a charge and the all is flowing to the ground. But only
20%
as the direct stroke.

The rule is simple. A mast with the polished ball on the tip attract the
direct stroke (polished ball do not dissipate).
A mast with many sharp spikes dissipate the static charge and eliminate
the
direct strike.

wrong, sharp spikes are designed to start an upward streamer that
connects the downward leader to the lightning rod. that is why they
have a sharp point, to reach the breakdown field gradient before
anything else around them.

But before the steamer is the dissipating: " IIRC the purpose is to
primarily drain off the static charges so the
gnd-cloud potential difference is minimized"

Direct strikes are typically around 20 kA, and can be as high as 100kA.
Both can be adequately carried by the usual AWG6 wire, because the
current
pulse only lasts a few microseconds.

It is the oscillating current which has a canal in the air. It is not
obliged to flow only in the wire.
S*

normally they don't oscillate, it is a mono-polarity pulse.

Normally in ALL sparks current oscillates: " The storm detector is a radio
receiver .
"The device was invented in 1894 by Alexander Stepanovich Popov. It also was
the first radio receiver in the world.
Ground-based and mobile detectors calculate the direction and severity of
lightning from the current location using radio direction-finding techniques
together with an analysis of the characteristic frequencies emitted by
lightning"

S*

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

"tom" wrote
t...
On 7/23/2010 4:23 PM, Jim Lux wrote:

If the ball is wet, especially with distinct droplets, then you can get
corona forming much earlier. The electrostatic forces tend to make the
droplets fly off.


Non-rhetorical question(s).

I must be missing something then. Why don't I see corona on the tips of
leaves at the tops of my trees? Trees are pretty conductive when hundreds
of kilovolts are involved.

You have missed that: "Physically, St. Elmo's fire is a bright blue or
violet glow, appearing like fire in some circumstances, from tall, sharply
pointed structures such as lightning rods, masts, spires and chimneys, and
on aircraft wings. St. Elmo's fire can also appear on leaves, grass, and
even at the tips of cattle horns.[3] Often accompanying the glow is a
distinct hissing or buzzing sound."

Or my antenna masts for that matter, 'cause they are grounded, too.

Your ground wire is broken. Check it.
S*

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

wrote
...
On Jul 23, 3:48 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:


The rule is simple. A mast with the polished ball on the tip attract the
direct stroke (polished ball do not dissipate).
A mast with many sharp spikes dissipate the static charge and eliminate
the
direct strike.

A mast with a ball is less likely to attract a strike. That is why
they are
used on flag poles, etc.. They don't stream near as well as a sharp
point. They can still be struck though if nothing more attractive
is around as far as streamers.
A pointed mast streams much easier and will be much more
effective as a lightning rod.
A mast with a lot of spikes is wishful thinking. You can not bleed
off the charge fast enough to eliminate strikes. It's like whizzing
in a whirlwind.

For Franklin it was obvious: "This grew into his idea for the lightning rod.
Franklin described an iron rod about 8 or 10 feet long that was sharpened to
a point at the end. He wrote, "the electrical fire would, I think, be drawn
out of a cloud silently, before it could come near enough to strike..."
From: http://www.fi.edu/pieces/hongell/

You can not eliminate a direct strike by bleeding off the charge.
You can only offer it a better and easier streaming target than
whatever you do not want struck. And the sharper and more
pointy an object, the better it streams. When is the last time
you saw a lightning rod with a polished ball on top?
They don't sell them, as they would be fairly useless.

But somebody want to catch strong lightnings:
"Blunt-tipped lightning rods are intended to intercept rather than to
prevent lightning strikes. They are intentionally located at the point of
maximum dielectric stress. (See Figure 2). " From:
http://www.nottltd.com/article.html
S*

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

On Jul 24, 7:35*am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
*"K1TTT" ...
On Jul 23, 8:48 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:



"Jim Lux"
...

IIRC the purpose is to primarily drain off the static charges so the
gnd-cloud potential difference is minimized. A direct strike will
usually
just melt whole house wiring, etc. etc.

Not true.

The cloud has SO MUCH charge you don't stand a chance of bleeding it
off.

Each cloud has a charge and the all is flowing to the ground. But only
20%
as the direct stroke.

The rule is simple. A mast with the polished ball on the tip attract the
direct stroke (polished ball do not dissipate).
A mast with many sharp spikes dissipate the static charge and eliminate
the
direct strike.
wrong, sharp spikes are designed to start an upward streamer that

connects the downward leader to the lightning rod. *that is why they
have a sharp point, to reach the breakdown field gradient before
anything else around them.

But before the steamer is the dissipating: " IIRC the purpose is to
primarily drain off the static charges so the

gnd-cloud potential difference is minimized"

Direct strikes are typically around 20 kA, and can be as high as 100kA.
Both can be adequately carried by the usual AWG6 wire, because the
current
pulse only lasts a few microseconds.

It is the oscillating current which has a canal in the air. It is not
obliged to flow only in the wire.
S*
normally they don't oscillate, it is a mono-polarity pulse.

Normally in ALL sparks current oscillates: " The storm detector is a radio
receiver .
"The device was invented in 1894 by Alexander Stepanovich Popov. It also was
the first radio receiver in the world.
Ground-based and mobile detectors calculate the direction and severity of
lightning from the current location using radio direction-finding techniques
together with an analysis of the characteristic frequencies emitted by
lightning"

S*

you like quoting stuff off the web don't you... too bad you don't
understand the basic physics behind it. no, the spark current doesn't
have to oscillate to be picked up by a radio receiver. The short
pulse, yes even one that doesn't oscillate itself, is made up of a
large number of sine waves added together, it is those that can be
picked up by radio receivers. it is also possible at a large distance
to determine the polarity of the lightning stroke as they can be
either positive or negative strokes, that type of distinction wouldn't
be needed if they oscillated.

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

"K1TTT" wrote
...
On Jul 24, 7:35 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:

Normally in ALL sparks current oscillates: " The storm detector is a
radio
receiver .
"The device was invented in 1894 by Alexander Stepanovich Popov. It also
was
the first radio receiver in the world.
Ground-based and mobile detectors calculate the direction and severity of
lightning from the current location using radio direction-finding
techniques
together with an analysis of the characteristic frequencies emitted by
lightning"


you like quoting stuff off the web don't you... too bad you don't
understand the basic physics behind it. no, the spark current doesn't
have to oscillate to be picked up by a radio receiver. The short
pulse, yes even one that doesn't oscillate itself, is made up of a
large number of sine waves added together, it is those that can be
picked up by radio receivers. it is also possible at a large distance
to determine the polarity of the lightning stroke as they can be
either positive or negative strokes, that type of distinction wouldn't
be needed if they oscillated.

Electrons like oscillate. The natural oscillations go up and next decay.
Each next jump is stronger at the beginning and weaker at the end.

Lightning jumps from the higher voltage area to the lower. It means that
netto electrons flow always from cloud to earth. But before such are many
lightnings cloud to cloud. Sometimes (5%) are cloud-earth-cloud.

In the all cases the current oscillate.
S*

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

On 7/24/2010 2:43 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:

You have missed that: "Physically, St. Elmo's fire is a bright blue or
violet glow, appearing like fire in some circumstances, from tall, sharply
pointed structures such as lightning rods, masts, spires and chimneys, and
on aircraft wings. St. Elmo's fire can also appear on leaves, grass, and
even at the tips of cattle horns.[3] Often accompanying the glow is a
distinct hissing or buzzing sound."

Wow, you can type "google"!


Or my antenna masts for that matter, 'cause they are grounded, too.

Your ground wire is broken. Check it.

Your brain is broken, check it.

S*

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

On Jul 24, 4:30*pm, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
*"K1TTT" ...
On Jul 24, 7:35 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:



Normally in ALL sparks current oscillates: " The storm detector is a
radio
receiver .
"The device was invented in 1894 by Alexander Stepanovich Popov. It also
was
the first radio receiver in the world.
Ground-based and mobile detectors calculate the direction and severity of
lightning from the current location using radio direction-finding
techniques
together with an analysis of the characteristic frequencies emitted by
lightning"

you like quoting stuff off the web don't you... too bad you don't

understand the basic physics behind it. *no, the spark current doesn't
have to oscillate to be picked up by a radio receiver. *The short
pulse, yes even one that doesn't oscillate itself, is made up of a
large number of sine waves added together, it is those that can be
picked up by radio receivers. *it is also possible at a large distance
to determine the polarity of the lightning stroke as they can be
either positive or negative strokes, that type of distinction wouldn't
be needed if they oscillated.

Electrons like oscillate. The natural oscillations go up *and next decay.
Each next jump is stronger at the beginning and weaker at the end.

Lightning jumps from the higher voltage area to the lower. It means that
netto electrons flow always from cloud to earth. But before such are many
lightnings cloud to cloud. Sometimes (5%) are cloud-earth-cloud.

In the all cases the current oscillate.
S*

i agree with tom, your brain is broken.. check it.

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

"K1TTT" wrote
...
On Jul 24, 4:30 pm, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:

In the all cases the current oscillate.
S*

i agree with tom, your brain is broken.. check it.

Yes. I mix the oscillating with pulsating: "Years later, Lodge realized that
lightning is not an oscillatory discharge but is actually a rapidly
pulsating unidirectional (dc) discharge.[2] However, the effects of the
inductive reactance on the flow of these pulsating lightning currents is the
same as Lodge predicted for oscillatory currents" From:
http://www.antiquewireless.org/otb/lodge1102.htm
S*

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"tom" wrote
. net...
On 7/24/2010 2:43 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:

Your ground wire is broken. Check it.

Your brain is broken, check it.

Have you ever seen the glow: "In addition, the scientist was able to
demonstrate that standing waves existed along the wires. In a darkened room,
he observed a visible glow along the wires at one-half wavelength intervals
corresponding to the voltage peaks. He also performed a number of other
experiments concerning the characteristics of discharging Leyden jars during
that spring and summer of 1888."
From: http://www.antiquewireless.org/otb/lodge1102.htm
S*

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

On Jul 25, 5:08*pm, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
*"K1TTT" ...
On Jul 24, 4:30 pm, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:



In the all cases the current oscillate.
S*
i agree with tom, your brain is broken.. check it.

Yes. I mix the oscillating with pulsating: "Years later, Lodge realized that
lightning is not an oscillatory discharge but is actually a rapidly
pulsating unidirectional (dc) discharge.[2] However, the effects of the
inductive reactance on the flow of these pulsating lightning currents is the
same as Lodge predicted for oscillatory currents" From:http://www.antiquewireless.org/otb/lodge1102.htm
S*

and i suppose you have a coherer in your receiver also?

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On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 10:56:16 -0700 (PDT), K1TTT
wrote:

and i suppose you have a coherer in your receiver also?

Is this in the same sense of coherence as to Art's babble of
equilibrium?

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

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Uzytkownik "Richard Clark" napisal w wiadomosci
...
On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 10:56:16 -0700 (PDT), K1TTT
wrote:

and i suppose you have a coherer in your receiver also?

Is this in the same sense of coherence as to Art's babble of
equilibrium?

In Art's equilibrium and Michael's "truds" are more sense than in yours
"magnetic whirls".
All radio history apply to the longitudinal electric waves (Tesla waves) in
wires and in the space.

Lodge made the long wire antennas (see Fig 2):
http://www.antiquewireless.org/otb/lodge1102.htm

The sparks are rather harmfull for transmitting. The better is a field
emission of electrons ("truds" or the "time dependent Gauss law").

You are an expert.
Does antenna radiate if it is coated with the thick good insulation?
S*

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

"K1TTT" wrote
...

and i suppose you have a coherer in your receiver also?

Unfortunatly the coherer do not work nowdays. To much electric waves in the
rare plasma.

But the Lodge's "electrical radiation" ("time dependent Gauss Law") works.
"Lodge then added a postscript to his own paper acknowledging Hertz's work
in an extremely positive way. He concluded the postscript by saying: "The
whole subject of electrical radiation seems working itself out splendidly".
S*

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tom wrote:
On 7/23/2010 4:23 PM, Jim Lux wrote:

If the ball is wet, especially with distinct droplets, then you can get
corona forming much earlier. The electrostatic forces tend to make the
droplets fly off.


Non-rhetorical question(s).

I must be missing something then. Why don't I see corona on the tips of
leaves at the tops of my trees? Trees are pretty conductive when
hundreds of kilovolts are involved.

In the clear air field (the 100V/meter sort of thing), you're not going
to see corona, because the voltages aren't high enough.

In thunderstorm type fields, you would see corona, if you look closely.
There's an interesting paper (which I can't find right now, but I'll
look) where someone measured the current from a field of wheat.

Not all breakdown will produce visible corona.

If you have a resistive thing (i.e. a tree), covered with sharp points,
then the object tends to adopt the overall voltage profile surrounding
it, so there's not much net difference in voltage between the
leaf/needle and the surrounding, so the field isn't locally high, so
there isn't any breakdown.



Or my antenna masts for that matter, 'cause they are grounded, too.

You probably DO have corona breakdown, it's just not noticeable. It's
kind of a challenge to measure microamp currents in a 100 foot tower.
And if that milliamp or microamp is spread over a large area (i.e. your
tower isn't a smooth machined surface with only the one point having
small radius of curvature) then it would be less noticeable.

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 10:26:52 +0200, "Szczepan Bialek"
wrote:

Does antenna radiate if it is coated with the thick good insulation?

Radiate what?

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

Szczepan Bialek wrote:
"tom" wrote
t...
On 7/23/2010 4:23 PM, Jim Lux wrote:
If the ball is wet, especially with distinct droplets, then you can get
corona forming much earlier. The electrostatic forces tend to make the
droplets fly off.

Non-rhetorical question(s).

I must be missing something then. Why don't I see corona on the tips of
leaves at the tops of my trees? Trees are pretty conductive when hundreds
of kilovolts are involved.

You have missed that: "Physically, St. Elmo's fire is a bright blue or
violet glow, appearing like fire in some circumstances, from tall, sharply
pointed structures such as lightning rods, masts, spires and chimneys, and
on aircraft wings. St. Elmo's fire can also appear on leaves, grass, and
even at the tips of cattle horns.[3] Often accompanying the glow is a
distinct hissing or buzzing sound."



St. Elmo's fire and corona discharge are distinctly different, although
St. Elmo's is often described as corona, it actually isn't.

Yes, corona in high fields does sound like hissing or buzzing. Anyone
who has been on a high mountain in a thunderstorm has probably
experienced this, and even more exciting is when you get corona
discharge off your hair standing on end.

St Elmo's is a bit different. It has a distinctly different appearance:
a sort of bluish glow that extends some distance surrounding the object,
as opposed to corona, which seems to be "stuck" to the surface. And then
a high field streamer discharge is still different. If you've seen both,
it's noticeably different, but hard to describe.

As best can be determined, St Elmo's arises when the surface of an
object is wet and in a field. The water sprays off the surface (much
like is done in electrospraying), and the droplets carry charge away.
Several different things then happen: 1) The charge causes the droplet
to break apart into smaller droplets from electrostatic forces; 2) the
field at the surface of the droplet is now too high and the air
breaksdown at the surface of the droplet, discharging it, and 3) the
droplet starts to shrink from evaporation, getting smaller, so the field
at the surface grows, etc.

So St. Elmos is not really corona off the object, but corona/breakdown
on the droplets being electrosprayed off the surface.

It is possible to generate St. Elmo's in the lab on the surface of an
object with fairly large radius of curvature (i.e. that would NOT be
subject to surface corona) in a moderate field. If someone wants to try
an experiment, put a wet cork or dowel of wood in a shallow tray or
puddle of water with a large flat electrode suspended over it to create
the overall field. A field of 10kV/cm will work quite nicely. I used
two baking pans separated by cut down styrofoam cups driven by a small
modular HV supply (50kV@ a few mA) driven by a variac. Make sure you
have a resistor in series with your HV supply, because occasionally
you'll get a flashover, and you want to limit the current.

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

"Richard Clark" wrote
...
On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 10:26:52 +0200, "Szczepan Bialek"
wrote:

Does antenna radiate if it is coated with the thick good insulation?

Radiate what?

What is better: bare metal or insulated metal?
S*

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"Richard Clark" wrote
...
On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 10:26:52 +0200, "Szczepan Bialek"
wrote:

Does antenna radiate if it is coated with the thick good insulation?

Radiate what?

What is better: bare metal or insulated metal?
S*

For what?

Insulated antennas work just fine.



--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

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On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 19:26:04 +0200, "Szczepan Bialek"
wrote:

Radiate what?

What is better: bare metal or insulated metal?

To radiate what?

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

On 7/25/2010 12:14 PM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
wrote
. net...
On 7/24/2010 2:43 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:

Your ground wire is broken. Check it.

Your brain is broken, check it.

Have you ever seen the glow: "In addition, the scientist was able to
demonstrate that standing waves existed along the wires. In a darkened room,
he observed a visible glow along the wires at one-half wavelength intervals
corresponding to the voltage peaks. He also performed a number of other
experiments concerning the characteristics of discharging Leyden jars during
that spring and summer of 1888."
From: http://www.antiquewireless.org/otb/lodge1102.htm
S*



Yup broken. Stuck in "post Google search results" mode. Definitely not
Bing.

tom
K0TAR

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"Richard Clark" wrote
...
On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 19:26:04 +0200, "Szczepan Bialek"
wrote:

Radiate what?

What is better: bare metal or insulated metal?

To radiate what?

The radio waves.
Do you agree with Jim: "Insulated antennas work just fine."?

"Just fine" may means enough.
But I am interesting in: "What is better: bare metal or insulated metal?"
S*

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

"Jim Lux" wrote
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
"tom" wrote
t...
On 7/23/2010 4:23 PM, Jim Lux wrote:
If the ball is wet, especially with distinct droplets, then you can get
corona forming much earlier. The electrostatic forces tend to make the
droplets fly off.

Non-rhetorical question(s).

I must be missing something then. Why don't I see corona on the tips of
leaves at the tops of my trees? Trees are pretty conductive when
hundreds of kilovolts are involved.

You have missed that: "Physically, St. Elmo's fire is a bright blue or
violet glow, appearing like fire in some circumstances, from tall,
sharply pointed structures such as lightning rods, masts, spires and
chimneys, and on aircraft wings. St. Elmo's fire can also appear on
leaves, grass, and even at the tips of cattle horns.[3] Often
accompanying the glow is a distinct hissing or buzzing sound."



St. Elmo's fire and corona discharge are distinctly different, although
St. Elmo's is often described as corona, it actually isn't.

Yes, corona in high fields does sound like hissing or buzzing. Anyone who
has been on a high mountain in a thunderstorm has probably experienced
this, and even more exciting is when you get corona discharge off your
hair standing on end.

St Elmo's is a bit different. It has a distinctly different appearance: a
sort of bluish glow that extends some , as opposed to corona, which seems
to be "stuck" to the surface. And then a high field streamer discharge is
still different. If you've seen both, it's noticeably different, but hard
to describe.

As best can be determined, St Elmo's arises when the surface of an object
is wet and in a field. The water sprays off the surface (much like is
done in electrospraying), and the droplets carry charge away. Several
different things then happen: 1) The charge causes the droplet to break
apart into smaller droplets from electrostatic forces; 2) the field at the
surface of the droplet is now too high and the air breaksdown at the
surface of the droplet, discharging it, and 3) the droplet starts to
shrink from evaporation, getting smaller, so the field at the surface
grows, etc.

So St. Elmos is not really corona off the object, but corona/breakdown on
the droplets being electrosprayed off the surface.

May be that more water bigger "distance surrounding the object".

It is possible to generate St. Elmo's in the lab on the surface of an
object with fairly large radius of curvature (i.e. that would NOT be
subject to surface corona) in a moderate field. If someone wants to try
an experiment, put a wet cork or dowel of wood in a shallow tray or puddle
of water with a large flat electrode suspended over it to create the
overall field. A field of 10kV/cm will work quite nicely. I used two
baking pans separated by cut down styrofoam cups driven by a small modular
HV supply (50kV@ a few mA) driven by a variac. Make sure you have a
resistor in series with your HV supply, because occasionally you'll get a
flashover, and you want to limit the current.

All this is fascinating, especially with presence of water.

All this phenomenon occur at higher voltages. In normal transmissing no such
spectacular glows but only simple field emission.

In textbooks is wrote that the electron emission is more effective than the
absorption and that the glow is different.

Do you know how is the netto flow (field emission/absorbtion) of electrons
during transmitting?
S*

..

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Szczepan Bialek wrote:
"Richard Clark" wrote
...
On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 19:26:04 +0200, "Szczepan Bialek"
wrote:

Radiate what?
What is better: bare metal or insulated metal?
To radiate what?

The radio waves.
Do you agree with Jim: "Insulated antennas work just fine."?

"Just fine" may means enough.
But I am interesting in: "What is better: bare metal or insulated metal?"
S*



Depends entirely on what the insulation is composed of!!

Jeff

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"Richard Clark" wrote
...
On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 19:26:04 +0200, "Szczepan Bialek"
wrote:

Radiate what?

What is better: bare metal or insulated metal?

To radiate what?

The radio waves.
Do you agree with Jim: "Insulated antennas work just fine."?

"Just fine" may means enough.
But I am interesting in: "What is better: bare metal or insulated metal?"
S*


In regards to radiating RF energy, the only difference insulation makes
is the elements are slightly shorter due to the change in velocity factor.

Insulation makes an antenna heavier, can reduce corrosion, and can allow
you to have whatever color antenna you want.

So define "better".

If you mean work as an antenna, there is no difference.

You are a babbling idiot.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

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"Jeff" wrote ...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
But I am interesting in: "What is better: bare metal or insulated
metal?"

Depends entirely on what the insulation is composed of!!

Is it possible to stop radiation?
S*

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On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 09:28:53 +0200, "Szczepan Bialek"
wrote:


"Richard Clark" wrote
.. .
On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 19:26:04 +0200, "Szczepan Bialek"
wrote:

Radiate what?

What is better: bare metal or insulated metal?

To radiate what?

The radio waves.

Depends. Does "radio waves" mean NOT TV, NOT FM, NOT Cell Phone, NOT
Radar....?

To radiate what?

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

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Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"Jeff" wrote ...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
But I am interesting in: "What is better: bare metal or insulated
metal?"

Depends entirely on what the insulation is composed of!!

Is it possible to stop radiation?
S*

Only if the insulation is infinitly lossy or infinitly thick.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

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On Jul 27, 9:50*pm, wrote:
Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"Jeff" ...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
But I am interesting in: "What is better: bare metal or insulated
metal?"

*Depends entirely on what the insulation is composed of!!

Is it possible to stop radiation?
S*

Only if the insulation is infinitly lossy or infinitly thick.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

even infinitely thick insulation allows radiation.

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K1TTT wrote:
On Jul 27, 9:50Â*pm, wrote:
Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"Jeff" ...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
But I am interesting in: "What is better: bare metal or insulated
metal?"

Â*Depends entirely on what the insulation is composed of!!

Is it possible to stop radiation?
S*

Only if the insulation is infinitly lossy or infinitly thick.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

even infinitely thick insulation allows radiation.

If the insulation is infinitely thick, there is no outside of the insulation
where radiation can occur.

But, yes, there will be radiation inside the insulation.


--
Jim Pennino

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On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 22:38:10 -0000, wrote:

If the insulation is infinitely thick, there is no outside of the insulation
where radiation can occur.

But, yes, there will be radiation inside the insulation.

Air is an insulator.....

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

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Richard Clark wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 22:38:10 -0000, wrote:

If the insulation is infinitely thick, there is no outside of the insulation
where radiation can occur.

But, yes, there will be radiation inside the insulation.

Air is an insulator.....


And yes there is radiation in the air as I said above but the air is not
infinitely thick.


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Jim Pennino

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"Richard Clark" wrote
...
On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 22:38:10 -0000, wrote:

If the insulation is infinitely thick, there is no outside of the
insulation
where radiation can occur.

But, yes, there will be radiation inside the insulation.

Air is an insulator.....

Like vacuum. But there are ions and free electrons.
In solid and liquid insulators no free electrons.

Does solid insulation makes the radiation weaker or stop it?
S*

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"Richard Clark" wrote
...
On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 09:28:53 +0200, "Szczepan Bialek"
wrote:


Radiate what?

What is better: bare metal or insulated metal?

To radiate what?

The radio waves.

Depends. Does "radio waves" mean NOT TV, NOT FM, NOT Cell Phone, NOT
Radar....?

To radiate what?

Your radio waves.
S*

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On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:05:34 +0200, "Szczepan Bialek"
wrote:
To radiate what?

Your radio waves.

To radiate what?

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

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Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"Richard Clark" wrote
...
On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 22:38:10 -0000, wrote:

If the insulation is infinitely thick, there is no outside of the
insulation
where radiation can occur.

But, yes, there will be radiation inside the insulation.

Air is an insulator.....

Like vacuum. But there are ions and free electrons.
In solid and liquid insulators no free electrons.

Does solid insulation makes the radiation weaker or stop it?
S*

No.

The question has been answered.

You are a babbling idiot.



--
Jim Pennino

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On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:03:44 +0200, "Szczepan Bialek"
wrote:

Air is an insulator.....

Like vacuum. But there are ions and free electrons.
In solid and liquid insulators no free electrons.

So, how can you tell?

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

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"Richard Clark" wrote
...
On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:05:34 +0200, "Szczepan Bialek"
wrote:
To radiate what?

Your radio waves.

To radiate what?

Jeff wrote: " Depends entirely on what the insulation is composed of!!"

Glass is an insulator but it is transparent for the light frequencies.

Does exist an insulation (reasonably thick) which is not transparent for the
radio-amateur frequencies?
S*

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Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"Richard Clark" wrote
...
On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:05:34 +0200, "Szczepan Bialek"
wrote:
To radiate what?

Your radio waves.

To radiate what?

Jeff wrote: " Depends entirely on what the insulation is composed of!!"

Glass is an insulator but it is transparent for the light frequencies.

Does exist an insulation (reasonably thick) which is not transparent for the
radio-amateur frequencies?
S*

You obviously do not know that the amateur frequencies start at 1.8 MHz
and include everything above 300 GHz.

Within that range of frequencies, there are lots of materials that are
"insulators" that have large dielectric losses.

See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permittivity

and in particular:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permittivity#Lossy_medium

You are a babbling idiot.



--
Jim Pennino

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On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 19:21:54 +0200, "Szczepan Bialek"
wrote:

"Richard Clark" wrote
To radiate what?

Jeff wrote:

I'm perfectly aware of what Jeff wrote.
What are you going to write? It is a very simple question:

To radiate what?

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

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On 7/28/2010 12:01 PM, Richard Clark wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:03:44 +0200, "Szczepan Bialek"
wrote:

Air is an insulator.....

Like vacuum. But there are ions and free electrons.
In solid and liquid insulators no free electrons.

So, how can you tell?

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

I think I see where you're going with this Richard, but you must realize
by now that you're talking to a rock.

To put it another way, he wouldn't pass the Turing Test.

tom
K0TAR