Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"K1TTT" wrote
...
On Aug 8, 6:23 pm, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:

In Ampere electroDYNAMICS no magnetism.

The XXI century will be the century of Ampere ElectroDYNAMICS. It is the
common opinion.

what good is a theory without magnetism. it obviously doesn't fit the
real world as we know it today. maybe it is your opinion, but its not
anywhere i have heard of.

Gravity force, electrostatic force and magnetic force are the real world for
the most people. But not for scientists.

Utter, babbling nonsense.

They know that in the space is the place for the one of them.
So step by step they decrease the number of them.
The first was Aepinus who proved that gravity and electrostatic are the
same.
The last step was made by Ampere who build the artifical magnet - solenoid.
It means that magnetism is an ilussion like gravity. The all forces are
electric.

Word salad and gibberish.

ampere's theory dates from almost 200 years
ago and was the predecessor of electromagnetics, so you seem to have
taken another step backwards, now you are almost 2 centuries out of
date.

Heaviside was not scientists and he has taken another step backwards to
Poisson's fluids.
He did not understand Maxwell and Stokes.

Teachers must be in "real world" and wait for the end of works on the
Unification of gravity, electricity and magnetism (they are pending).
S*

More word salad and gibberish.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

On Aug 10, 7:51*am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
"K1TTT" ...
On Aug 8, 6:23 pm, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:



In Ampere electroDYNAMICS no magnetism.

The XXI century will be the century of Ampere ElectroDYNAMICS. It is the
common opinion.
what good is a theory without magnetism. *it obviously doesn't fit the

real world as we know it today. *maybe it is your opinion, but its not
anywhere i have heard of.

Gravity force, electrostatic force and magnetic force are the real world for
the most people. But not for scientists.
They know that in the space is the place for the one of them.
So step by step they decrease the number of them.
The first was Aepinus who proved that gravity and electrostatic are the
same.
The last step was made by Ampere who build the artifical magnet - solenoid.
It means that magnetism is an ilussion like gravity. The all forces are
electric.

ampere's theory dates from almost 200 years

ago and was the predecessor of electromagnetics, so you seem to have
taken another step backwards, now you are almost 2 centuries out of
date.

Heaviside was not scientists and he has taken another step backwards to
Poisson's fluids.
He did not understand Maxwell and Stokes.

Teachers must be in "real world" and wait for the end of works on the
Unification of gravity, electricity and magnetism (they are pending).
S*

it sure would be nice if gravity and electrostatics were the same
force, would make it easy to build antigravity device, just hook up a
van de graf generator and fly away!!! you really are digging up some
old and incorrect theories from long ago... keep digging and you'll
get back to the 4 basic elements, then you will know everything.

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

"K1TTT" wrote
...
On Aug 10, 7:51 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:

Teachers must be in "real world" and wait for the end of works on the
Unification of gravity, electricity and magnetism (they are pending).
S*

it sure would be nice if gravity and electrostatics were the same
force, would make it easy to build antigravity device, just hook up a
van de graf generator and fly away!!!

Moon dust fly away.
On the Earth the soap-bubble levitates if are charged.
Earth and Moon have the excess of electrons.

you really are digging up some
old and incorrect theories from long ago... keep digging and you'll
get back to the 4 basic elements, then you will know everything.

Bill Baka wrote: "Some of you guys need a 'TRUE' history lesson."

In the history are the reasons for which Maxwell did the hipothesis and and
why it was discarded.
Not as a whole. The math for solid body is in using. In a solid body are
stress and strains.

In the history no the school version by Heaviside. It is only in your "real
world" and in textbooks.
S*

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"K1TTT" wrote
...
On Aug 10, 7:51 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:

Teachers must be in "real world" and wait for the end of works on the
Unification of gravity, electricity and magnetism (they are pending).
S*

it sure would be nice if gravity and electrostatics were the same
force, would make it easy to build antigravity device, just hook up a
van de graf generator and fly away!!!

Moon dust fly away.
On the Earth the soap-bubble levitates if are charged.
Earth and Moon have the excess of electrons.

Babbling word salad.

you really are digging up some
old and incorrect theories from long ago... keep digging and you'll
get back to the 4 basic elements, then you will know everything.

Bill Baka wrote: "Some of you guys need a 'TRUE' history lesson."

In the history are the reasons for which Maxwell did the hipothesis and and
why it was discarded.
Not as a whole. The math for solid body is in using. In a solid body are
stress and strains.

In the history no the school version by Heaviside. It is only in your "real
world" and in textbooks.
S*

More babbling word salad.

Seek medical help.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

On 08/05/2010 06:35 PM, tom wrote:
On 8/5/2010 7:37 PM, Bill Baka wrote:
On 08/05/2010 05:13 PM, tom wrote:
On 8/5/2010 2:38 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
wrote
. net...
On 8/4/2010 2:45 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:

Now everybody from you can measure the electron emission and heat
emission.
I was expected that you (radio people) know the results.

Actually we do. You, who believe the 200 and 100 year old myths, don't
believe us. And then you prattle on about us not knowing of what we
speak
when it is you who do not.

Tesla wrote in XX century that EM is a myth. I simply agree with him.
Tell me then who know better how the radio works: Tesla or you?
S*



Me.

*t

I hate to break in on private arguments, but Tesla was one of the
smartest people to ever walk this earth. Are You?
He invented Radio, but Marconi took the credit, using at least 6 of
Tesla's patents.
I can rant on Edison and Daguerre, but that gets long.
Some of you guys need a 'TRUE' history lesson.

Bill Baka, Listener only, since I rent these days.
Had a 1st Class Radiotelephone with Marine RADAR, P1-12-24966,
but gave it up some years back when they decided to do away with the
first class distinction.

Different numbers, but hard work to get anyway.

I was specifically responding to the part where it is claimed that Tesla
said EM is a myth. I feel quite safe, thanks.

But I wouldn't have debated alternating current motors with Tesla. No sir.

*t

I am not arguing the obvious, just that Tesla was a genius before his
time. Edison had some creativity but mostly stole other people's
inventions and made them work for commercially viable products.
He wanted to distribute DC power but Tesla wanted nothing to do with it
so he became allied with Western House who knew that AC motors were the
way to go. Since Edison went with D.C. and then found out it was only
good at the local level he lost out. It took years but we can all see
the effects by looking at those million volt transmission towers. I
climbed one about 15 years ago and all I could hear was the crackling
around me. Let Edison try to convert DC at that level.
Bill Baka

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

On 08/06/2010 12:42 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
wrote
. net...
On 8/5/2010 7:37 PM, Bill Baka wrote:
On 08/05/2010 05:13 PM, tom wrote:
On 8/5/2010 2:38 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:

Tesla wrote in XX century that EM is a myth. I simply agree with him.
Tell me then who know better how the radio works: Tesla or you?
Me.

I hate to break in on private arguments, but Tesla was one of the
smartest people to ever walk this earth. Are You?
He invented Radio, but Marconi took the credit, using at least 6 of
Tesla's patents.
I can rant on Edison and Daguerre, but that gets long.
Some of you guys need a 'TRUE' history lesson.

Bill Baka, Listener only, since I rent these days.
Had a 1st Class Radiotelephone with Marine RADAR, P1-12-24966,
but gave it up some years back when they decided to do away with the
first class distinction.

Different numbers, but hard work to get anyway.

I was specifically responding to the part where it is claimed that Tesla
said EM is a myth. I feel quite safe, thanks.

Nikola Tesla wrote: " I showed that the universal medium is a gaseous body
in which only longitudinal pulses can be propagated, involving alternating
compressions and expansions similar to those produced by sound waves in the
air. Thus, a wireless transmitter does not propagate Hertz waves, which are
a myth, but sound waves in the ether, behaving in every respect like those
in the air, except that, owing to the great elastic force and extremely
small density of the medium, their speed is that of light."

Bill Baka wrote: "Some of you guys need a 'TRUE' history lesson."

There is also wrote that EM wrote Heaviside not Maxwell.
Maxwell's hypothesis was quite different. There were the molecullar magnetic
vortices. Inside the solenoid were millions of them. They rotate the
polarisation plane. What rotate it in Heaviside EM? Inside the solenoid is
the flux. Any rotation.
In our textbooks is wrote "whats a pity that to teaching was choosen
Heaviside not Ampere".
But Ampere is too sophisticated for students.

So, "I feel quite safe, thanks."
S*



I only commented on Tesla being a world smarter than Edison and did not
intend to start an off topic war. P.S. Philo T. Farnsworth invented
television, not RCA, who just ripped him off.

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

On 08/05/2010 07:23 PM, tom wrote:
On 8/5/2010 7:37 PM, Bill Baka wrote:
On 08/05/2010 05:13 PM, tom wrote:
On 8/5/2010 2:38 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
wrote
. net...
On 8/4/2010 2:45 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:

Now everybody from you can measure the electron emission and heat
emission.
I was expected that you (radio people) know the results.

Actually we do. You, who believe the 200 and 100 year old myths, don't
believe us. And then you prattle on about us not knowing of what we
speak
when it is you who do not.

Tesla wrote in XX century that EM is a myth. I simply agree with him.
Tell me then who know better how the radio works: Tesla or you?
S*



Me.

*t

I hate to break in on private arguments, but Tesla was one of the
smartest people to ever walk this earth. Are You?
He invented Radio, but Marconi took the credit, using at least 6 of
Tesla's patents.
I can rant on Edison and Daguerre, but that gets long.
Some of you guys need a 'TRUE' history lesson.

Bill Baka, Listener only, since I rent these days.
Had a 1st Class Radiotelephone with Marine RADAR, P1-12-24966,
but gave it up some years back when they decided to do away with the
first class distinction.

Different numbers, but hard work to get anyway.

Just noticed the renter part.

I've been renting for 35 years and haven't been too seriously
constrained for most of it. And by not seriously constrained I mean 4
over 4 yagis at 25 and 37 feet with 1000 watts on 6m amongst other things.

If you work with your landlord you can often get permission for a lot.
And the right city helps, too.

tom
K0TAR

You are obviously not renting from Herr Commandant Earl Kennedy. He
doesn't allow **** except for maybe a long wire run through the trees.
If he can see it, he says take it down. I can't wait to move to a house
that is farther out and he doesn't own.
Bill Baka

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

On 08/10/2010 11:29 PM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
wrote
...
On Aug 10, 7:51 am, "Szczepan wrote:

Teachers must be in "real world" and wait for the end of works on the
Unification of gravity, electricity and magnetism (they are pending).
S*

it sure would be nice if gravity and electrostatics were the same
force, would make it easy to build antigravity device, just hook up a
van de graf generator and fly away!!!

Moon dust fly away.
On the Earth the soap-bubble levitates if are charged.
Earth and Moon have the excess of electrons.

you really are digging up some
old and incorrect theories from long ago... keep digging and you'll
get back to the 4 basic elements, then you will know everything.

Bill Baka wrote: "Some of you guys need a 'TRUE' history lesson."

I didn't start this to be a flame war, but I should have known.
As for really high magnetic fields they have levitated a mouse in the
lab with about 5 Teslas interacting with the water in his body.
Bill Baka

In the history are the reasons for which Maxwell did the hipothesis and and
why it was discarded.
Not as a whole. The math for solid body is in using. In a solid body are
stress and strains.

In the history no the school version by Heaviside. It is only in your "real
world" and in textbooks.
S*

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

Bill Baka wrote:
On 08/05/2010 06:35 PM, tom wrote:
On 8/5/2010 7:37 PM, Bill Baka wrote:
On 08/05/2010 05:13 PM, tom wrote:
On 8/5/2010 2:38 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
wrote
. net...
On 8/4/2010 2:45 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:

Now everybody from you can measure the electron emission and heat
emission.
I was expected that you (radio people) know the results.

Actually we do. You, who believe the 200 and 100 year old myths, don't
believe us. And then you prattle on about us not knowing of what we
speak
when it is you who do not.

Tesla wrote in XX century that EM is a myth. I simply agree with him.
Tell me then who know better how the radio works: Tesla or you?
S*



Me.

*t

I hate to break in on private arguments, but Tesla was one of the
smartest people to ever walk this earth. Are You?
He invented Radio, but Marconi took the credit, using at least 6 of
Tesla's patents.
I can rant on Edison and Daguerre, but that gets long.
Some of you guys need a 'TRUE' history lesson.

Bill Baka, Listener only, since I rent these days.
Had a 1st Class Radiotelephone with Marine RADAR, P1-12-24966,
but gave it up some years back when they decided to do away with the
first class distinction.

Different numbers, but hard work to get anyway.

I was specifically responding to the part where it is claimed that Tesla
said EM is a myth. I feel quite safe, thanks.

But I wouldn't have debated alternating current motors with Tesla. No sir.

*t

I am not arguing the obvious, just that Tesla was a genius before his
time. Edison had some creativity but mostly stole other people's
inventions and made them work for commercially viable products.
He wanted to distribute DC power but Tesla wanted nothing to do with it
so he became allied with Western House who knew that AC motors were the
way to go. Since Edison went with D.C. and then found out it was only
good at the local level he lost out. It took years but we can all see
the effects by looking at those million volt transmission towers. I
climbed one about 15 years ago and all I could hear was the crackling
around me. Let Edison try to convert DC at that level.
Bill Baka

HVDC distribution systems over long distances are not that uncommon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-vo...direct_current

The Pacific DC Intertie from Celilo, Oregon to Sylmar, California is just
under 2,000 km long and runs at .5 MV.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

On Aug 11, 8:46*pm, Bill Baka wrote:
On 08/05/2010 06:35 PM, tom wrote:

On 8/5/2010 7:37 PM, Bill Baka wrote:
On 08/05/2010 05:13 PM, tom wrote:
On 8/5/2010 2:38 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
wrote
use.net...
On 8/4/2010 2:45 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:

Now everybody from you can measure the electron emission and heat
emission.
I was expected that you (radio people) know the results.

Actually we do. You, who believe the 200 and 100 year old myths, don't
believe us. And then you prattle on about us not knowing of what we
speak
when it is you who do not.

Tesla wrote in XX century that EM is a myth. I simply agree with him..
Tell me then who know better how the radio works: Tesla or you?
S*

Me.

*t

I hate to break in on private arguments, but Tesla was one of the
smartest people to ever walk this earth. Are You?
He invented Radio, but Marconi took the credit, using at least 6 of
Tesla's patents.
I can rant on Edison and Daguerre, but that gets long.
Some of you guys need a 'TRUE' history lesson.

Bill Baka, Listener only, since I rent these days.
Had a 1st Class Radiotelephone with Marine RADAR, P1-12-24966,
but gave it up some years back when they decided to do away with the
first class distinction.

Different numbers, but hard work to get anyway.

I was specifically responding to the part where it is claimed that Tesla
said EM is a myth. I feel quite safe, thanks.

But I wouldn't have debated alternating current motors with Tesla. No sir.

*t

I am not arguing the obvious, just that Tesla was a genius before his
time. Edison had some creativity but mostly stole other people's
inventions and made them work for commercially viable products.
He wanted to distribute DC power but Tesla wanted nothing to do with it
so he became allied with Western House who knew that AC motors were the
way to go. Since Edison went with D.C. and then found out it was only
good at the local level he lost out. It took years but we can all see
the effects by looking at those million volt transmission towers. I
climbed one about 15 years ago and all I could hear was the crackling
around me. Let Edison try to convert DC at that level.
Bill Baka

well, actually edison was right... and many long distance transmission
lines today are DC at up to +/- 600kv, that will put a crackle in your
snap and pop! There are also places where interconnects between major
AC systems are done using back to back AC/DC converters so that the
systems can be isolated due to voltage or frequency control issues.
don't count out large dc motors either, our submarines have been using
them forever... even nuclear subs have dc propulsion systems. All
solar panels start as DC, as are most of the storage systems for them,
and don't forget plugin hybrid or all electric vehicles, most all of
them are dc powered. There is also a new move to use DC distribution
in large data centers to reduce heat from transformers and simplify
backup power systems. most subway systems and electric rail i believe
are also dc powered. and believe it or not, there was still a block in
nyc that was provided with dc by ConEd until 2007, and as i understand
it they had to provide custom rectifiers for some equipment that was
still in use so they could retire the rest of that system.

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

wrote ...
Bill Baka wrote:

HVDC distribution systems over long distances are not that uncommon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-vo...direct_current

" Due to the space charge formed around the conductors, an HVDC system may
have about half the loss per unit length of a high voltage AC system
carrying the same amount of power. With monopolar transmission the choice of
polarity of the energized conductor leads to a degree of control over the
corona discharge. In particular, the polarity of the ions emitted can be
controlled, which may have an environmental impact on particulate
condensation. (particles of different polarities have a different mean-free
path.) Negative coronas generate considerably more ozone than positive
coronas,"

But what it works in your antennas.
S*

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

On Aug 12, 6:09*am, "Szczepan Bia³ek" wrote:
....

Bill Baka wrote:

HVDC distribution systems over long distances are not that uncommon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-vo...direct_current

" Due to the space charge formed around the conductors, an HVDC system may
have about half the loss per unit length of a high voltage AC system
carrying the same amount of power. With monopolar transmission the choice of
polarity of the energized conductor leads to a degree of control over the
corona discharge. *In particular, the polarity of the ions emitted can be
controlled, which may have an environmental impact on particulate
condensation. (particles of different polarities have a different mean-free
path.) Negative coronas generate considerably more ozone than positive
coronas,"

But what it works in your antennas.
S*

your antennas do not use DC.

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

"Szczepan Bia?ek" wrote:

wrote ...
Bill Baka wrote:

HVDC distribution systems over long distances are not that uncommon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-vo...direct_current

" Due to the space charge formed around the conductors, an HVDC system may
have about half the loss per unit length of a high voltage AC system
carrying the same amount of power. With monopolar transmission the choice of
polarity of the energized conductor leads to a degree of control over the
corona discharge. In particular, the polarity of the ions emitted can be
controlled, which may have an environmental impact on particulate
condensation. (particles of different polarities have a different mean-free
path.) Negative coronas generate considerably more ozone than positive
coronas,"

Whoopee, you can cut and paste from a web page, what a genius.

But what it works in your antennas.
S*

It has nothing to do with antennas, moron.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

On Aug 12, 8:54*pm, wrote:
"Szczepan Bia?ek" wrote:

....
Bill Baka wrote:

HVDC distribution systems over long distances are not that uncommon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-vo...direct_current

" Due to the space charge formed around the conductors, an HVDC system may
have about half the loss per unit length of a high voltage AC system
carrying the same amount of power. With monopolar transmission the choice of
polarity of the energized conductor leads to a degree of control over the
corona discharge. *In particular, the polarity of the ions emitted can be
controlled, which may have an environmental impact on particulate
condensation. (particles of different polarities have a different mean-free
path.) Negative coronas generate considerably more ozone than positive
coronas,"

Whoopee, you can cut and paste from a web page, what a genius.

But what it works in your antennas.
S*

It has nothing to do with antennas, moron.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

maybe he does try to use dc on his antennas? kind of low data rate,
but it would suffice for anything logical he had to say.

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

"K1TTT" wrote
...
On Aug 12, 8:54 pm, wrote:
"Szczepan Bia?ek" wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-vo...direct_current

" Due to the space charge formed around the conductors, an HVDC system
may
have about half the loss per unit length of a high voltage AC system
carrying the same amount of power.

But what it works in your antennas.
S*


maybe he does try to use dc on his antennas? kind of low data rate,
but it would suffice for anything logical he had to say.

Your antenna is a high voltage AC system.
The loss is a loss of electrons.
Try to measure it.
S*

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

On Aug 13, 8:42*am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
*"K1TTT" ...
On Aug 12, 8:54 pm, wrote:

"Szczepan Bia?ek" wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-vo...direct_current

" Due to the space charge formed around the conductors, an HVDC system
may
have about half the loss per unit length of a high voltage AC system
carrying the same amount of power.

But what it works in your antennas.
S*

maybe he does try to use dc on his antennas? *kind of low data rate,

but it would suffice for anything logical he had to say.

Your antenna is a high voltage AC system.
The loss is a loss of electrons.
Try to measure it.
S*

there is no net charge build up on an antenna due to rf.

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

Your antenna is a high voltage AC system.

No, it isn't.

The loss is a loss of electrons.

No, it isn't.

Try to measure it.
S*

Measure what, your babbling ignorance?


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

"K1TTT" wrote
...
On Aug 13, 8:42 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:

Your antenna is a high voltage AC system.
The loss is a loss of electrons.
Try to measure it.

there is no net charge build up on an antenna due to rf.

So we are at the beginning.
Try then to work without ground.
S*

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

On Aug 13, 5:19*pm, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
*"K1TTT" ...
On Aug 13, 8:42 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:



Your antenna is a high voltage AC system.
The loss is a loss of electrons.
Try to measure it.
there is no net charge build up on an antenna due to rf.

So we are at the beginning.
Try then to work without ground.
S*

antennas work just fine without a ground. how do they work in
airplanes? how about spacecraft? yes, i know, you like plasmas that
provide the free electrons... but you are wrong. take a transmitter,
encase it in rubber, put it in a vacuum chamber and pump out all the
air, and you will still receive it.

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

"K1TTT" wrote
...
On Aug 13, 5:19 pm, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:

So we are at the beginning.
Try then to work without ground.

antennas work just fine without a ground. how do they work in
airplanes? how about spacecraft? yes, i know, you like plasmas that
provide the free electrons... but you are wrong. take a transmitter,
encase it in rubber, put it in a vacuum chamber and pump out all the
air, and you will still receive it.

See at the fig. 1: http://amasci.com/tesla/tmistk.html
Can it work without Gnd?

You can use a chassis.
Transmitter is only a oscillating pump. Such must has a tank.
S*

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"K1TTT" wrote
...
On Aug 13, 8:42 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:

Your antenna is a high voltage AC system.
The loss is a loss of electrons.
Try to measure it.

there is no net charge build up on an antenna due to rf.

So we are at the beginning.
Try then to work without ground.
S*

Antennas work just fine without ground.

Have you ever heard of airplanes, radiosondes and spacecraft?



--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"K1TTT" wrote
...
On Aug 13, 5:19 pm, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:

So we are at the beginning.
Try then to work without ground.

antennas work just fine without a ground. how do they work in
airplanes? how about spacecraft? yes, i know, you like plasmas that
provide the free electrons... but you are wrong. take a transmitter,
encase it in rubber, put it in a vacuum chamber and pump out all the
air, and you will still receive it.

See at the fig. 1: http://amasci.com/tesla/tmistk.html
Can it work without Gnd?

You can use a chassis.
Transmitter is only a oscillating pump. Such must has a tank.
S*

Gibberish and nonsense based on ancient crap.

Connect an RF source through a transformer with the secondary connected to
a dipole and hang it from a balloon; works fine and no ground or chassis.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

On Aug 13, 5:55*pm, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
*"K1TTT" ...
On Aug 13, 5:19 pm, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:



So we are at the beginning.
Try then to work without ground.
antennas work just fine without a ground. *how do they work in

airplanes? *how about spacecraft? *yes, i know, you like plasmas that
provide the free electrons... but you are wrong. *take a transmitter,
encase it in rubber, put it in a vacuum chamber and pump out all the
air, and you will still receive it.

See at the fig. 1:http://amasci.com/tesla/tmistk.html
Can it work without Gnd?

You can use a chassis.
Transmitter is only a oscillating pump. Such must has a tank.
S*

the best quote from that web page: "electromagnetism is
electromagnetism", nuff said.

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

wrote ...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:

Transmitter is only a oscillating pump. Such must has a tank.

Gibberish and nonsense based on ancient crap.

Connect an RF source through a transformer with the secondary connected to
a dipole and hang it from a balloon; works fine and no ground or chassis.

Start thinking. The dipole is a very long wire. The electrons are emitted
from the ends only. The rest of the wire is the chassis.
The very short dipole (0.05 wavelengh) should not work fine without ground.

All antennas are the same:

"In conventional ICP (or TCP) reactors, a rf power is inductively coupled to
an antenna placed outside a plasma vessel. Such an external coupling system
is known to have several disadvantages. In order to avoid these
disadvantages, a new internal coupling system has been developed in which a
bare metal antenna is directly immersed in a plasma, thus forming a full
metal reactor. This is accomplished by generating magnetic field lines
around an antenna conductor, which effectively suppress the electron loss at
the antenna and hence suppress the anomalous rise of plasma potential.
Magnetic fields near the antenna are formed by superposing a dc current on a
rf current along the antenna. This type of ICP enables rf discharges at
rather low pressures such as ?3×10-4 Torr due to the magnetron effect. Other
characteristics of internal metal antennas are also discussed".

"the electron loss" and "the anomalous rise of plasma potential." apply to
all antennas.
S*

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

On Aug 14, 8:03*am, "Szczepan Bia³ek" wrote:
....

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

Transmitter is only a oscillating pump. Such must has a tank.

Gibberish and nonsense based on ancient crap.

Connect an RF source through a transformer with the secondary connected to
a dipole and hang it from a balloon; works fine and no ground or chassis.

Start thinking. The dipole is a very long wire. The electrons are emitted
from the ends only. The rest of the wire is the chassis.
The very short dipole *(0.05 wavelengh) should not work fine without ground.

All antennas are the same:

"In conventional ICP (or TCP) reactors, a rf power is inductively coupled to
an antenna placed outside a plasma vessel. Such an external coupling system
is known to have several disadvantages. In order to avoid these
disadvantages, a new internal coupling system has been developed in which a
bare metal antenna is directly immersed in a plasma, thus forming a full
metal reactor. This is accomplished by generating magnetic field lines
around an antenna conductor, which effectively suppress the electron loss at
the antenna and hence suppress the anomalous rise of plasma potential.
Magnetic fields near the antenna are formed by superposing a dc current on a
rf current along the antenna. This type of ICP enables rf discharges at
rather low pressures such as ?3×10-4 Torr due to the magnetron effect. Other
characteristics of internal metal antennas are also discussed".

"the electron loss" and "the anomalous rise of plasma potential." apply to
all antennas.
S*

no they don't. that discusses a rather unique situation of an antenna
in a very low pressure plasma. another case where google supplied
irrelevant information because of your ignorance of the actual physics
involved.

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

"Szczepan Bia?ek" wrote:

wrote ...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:

Transmitter is only a oscillating pump. Such must has a tank.

Gibberish and nonsense based on ancient crap.

Connect an RF source through a transformer with the secondary connected to
a dipole and hang it from a balloon; works fine and no ground or chassis.

Start thinking. The dipole is a very long wire. The electrons are emitted
from the ends only. The rest of the wire is the chassis.
The very short dipole (0.05 wavelengh) should not work fine without ground.

Babbling nonsense contradicted by about a hundred years of empirical
observation.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

The NEC only requires 5.261 (mm)2 for the protective down conductor
and 13.30 (mm)2 for the bonding conductor between electrodes. Since
those sizes are at best a bad joke I was hoping to elicit best
practice advise on what size the conductors should actually be as well
as advise on how to accomplish the bonding of the interior single
point grounding buss bar to the exterior grounding conductors and
Grounding Electrode System.
--

In what way is #6 a "bad joke?"

Do you expect it to vaporize and set your roof on fire?

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

"John Gilmer" wrote in
net:

Do you expect it to vaporize and set your roof on fire?

Well, engineering of lightning protection is about design of a protection
system that will, amongst other things, survive most events so as to
continue to provide protection, and to minimise incidental damage.

So, yes, down conductors adequately sized to manage the risk of the
conductor "vapourising" is part of the scope, and physical design to
minimise the risk of side flash causing damage is also part of the scope.

It is interesting, no confusing, that you have two guides that give such
different guidance. In Australia, we too have a standard for house wiring,
and another standard for lightning protection, but they are not in conflict
and our standard for lightning protection is well aligned with NFPA 780 on
the downconductor size issue.

Owen

Grounding for Gable end bracket & mast.
 

Owen Duffy wrote:
"John Gilmer" wrote in
net:

Do you expect it to vaporize and set your roof on fire?

Well, engineering of lightning protection is about design of a protection
system that will, amongst other things, survive most events so as to
continue to provide protection, and to minimise incidental damage.

So, yes, down conductors adequately sized to manage the risk of the
conductor "vapourising" is part of the scope, and physical design to
minimise the risk of side flash causing damage is also part of the scope.

It is interesting, no confusing, that you have two guides that give such
different guidance. In Australia, we too have a standard for house wiring,
and another standard for lightning protection, but they are not in conflict
and our standard for lightning protection is well aligned with NFPA 780 on
the downconductor size issue.

Owen




The thing is, AWG 6 wire won't vaporize or even melt or even get warm to
the touch. There's not enough "action" (I^2 T) in a lightning stroke to
do it. Remember that the current is high, but only lasts a matter of a
50-100 microseconds.

Say you are using AWG 10 wire which has a resistance of 1 milliohm per
foot. a 50 kA strike will dissipate 50E3^2*1E-3 = 2.5 MegaWatts.. which
is big.. but for 50 microseconds, that's only 150 joules. That same
foot of wire weighs about 1/2 an ounce (I'm sorry for the customary
units, but they are what I remember off the top of my head AWG 10 is
1/10th inch in diameter, 1 ohm/kft, and 32 ft/lb).. or about 14 grams.

Specific heat of copper is 0.38, so we have deltaT = 150/14 * 0.38
let's call it about 4 degrees C.

I should note that this is a bit optimistic.. the AC resistance for a 50
microsecond pulse will be higher than for DC because of skin effect
(skin depth at 1 MHz is 65 microns, 2.5E-3 inches, and it goes as the
square root, so even at 100kHz, it's still not much more).. so the
dissipation will be higher.

But, you've got a long ways from 30C to 1000C (melting point of copper)
and even farther to "vaporization"...

(as a practical matter, you need kiloJoules to explode a 1 meter AWG 30
copper wire.. hundreds of joules just "melts" it. )

(note also that while the peak current might be 50kA or 100kA, the
average current is substantially less..)

Mechanical stresses from magnetic fields are a bigger concern, as well
as "sideflash".