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#201
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Antenna materials
On 11/4/2010 5:48 PM, K1TTT wrote:
On Nov 4, 8:55 am, "Szczepan wrote: ... On Nov 2, 8:34 am, "Szczepan wrote: So your electrons only oscillate (no Stokes drift)? But I am not an expert. that is the only true thing you have said so far. So it takes a time for me to find the method of measure the Stokes drift in your stations. Try also to do your best. S* no drift that i can measure... but you haven't told me how much i should be looking for so i may not be measuring properly. At first you must have a radio which do not work without ground. No chassis no AC supply. If you are able to prepare such the rest will be easy. S* got it... plastic case, battery powered, only does 5w that that is easy to measure. now how much dc current should i measure in the ground lead when i transmit with 5w? " " Excuse me? I didn't hear the answer. tom K0TAR |
#202
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Antenna materials
"K1TTT" wrote ... On Nov 4, 8:55 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote: So your electrons only oscillate (no Stokes drift)? should be looking for so i may not be measuring properly. At first you must have a radio which do not work without ground. No chassis no AC supply. If you are able to prepare such the rest will be easy. got it... plastic case, battery powered, only does 5w that that is easy to measure. now how much dc current should i measure in the ground lead when i transmit with 5w? You know: "more than electron per cycle and less than infinity". For one you should use an electroscope (in place of ground). Charge it and check what your radio needs to work (+ or -). For more, the steem generator should be beest. "At Cramlington Colliery, Sedgehill, Newcastle on Tyne (Northumberland, England) high pressure steam broke through the cement around the safety valve of a locomotive boiler. The Engine-Man held a shovel in the steam and with a penknife in his other hand, held about 3/8 inch from the boiler, produced electric sparks.". In such arrangment the shovel has an exces of electrons and the boiler a deficit. Close to infinity the DC meter will be enough. But the experts know that Stokes drift is everywhere. Stokes drift and longitudinal electric waves in the wires (Oliver Lodge) were discowered before electrons.It is obvious that the both apply to the electron gas. Electrons also travel through a capacitor. AC pulses are never simmetric. S* |
#203
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Antenna materials
On Nov 5, 3:32*am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
Electrons also travel through a capacitor. AC pulses are never simmetric. There's no such thing as a perfect capacitor. Electron flow through a capacitor is what causes it to fail eventually. -- 73, Cecil, w5dxp.com |
#204
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Antenna materials
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
Electrons also travel through a capacitor. AC pulses are never simmetric. S* This is wrong and shows how little you understand. If you continue to rely upon web pages that are written from grade school kids you will never understand. Leave your outdated and overly simplified references behind and try learning from a modern textbook. |
#205
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Antenna materials
Uzytkownik "joe" napisal w wiadomosci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: Electrons also travel through a capacitor. AC pulses are never simmetric. S* This is wrong and shows how little you understand. If you continue to rely upon web pages that are written from grade school kids you will never understand. Leave your outdated and overly simplified references behind and try learning from a modern textbook. Everywhere is wrote that a real insulators are a very,very week conductors. At HF it increases. Net flow of electrons is in each real arrangment. S* |
#206
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Antenna materials
On Nov 5, 8:32*am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
"K1TTT" ... On Nov 4, 8:55 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote: So your electrons only oscillate (no Stokes drift)? should be looking for so i may not be measuring properly. At first you must have a radio which do not work without ground. No chassis no AC supply. If you are able to prepare such the rest will be easy. got it... plastic case, battery powered, only does 5w that that is easy to measure. *now how much dc current should i measure in the ground lead when i transmit with 5w? You know: "more than electron per cycle and less than infinity". For one you should use an electroscope (in place of ground). Charge it and check what your radio needs to work (+ or -). For more, the steem generator should be beest. "At Cramlington Colliery, Sedgehill, Newcastle on Tyne (Northumberland, England) high pressure steam broke through the cement around the safety valve of a locomotive boiler. The Engine-Man held a shovel in the steam and with a penknife in his other hand, held about 3/8 inch from the boiler, produced electric sparks.". In such arrangment the shovel has an exces of electrons and the boiler a deficit. Close to infinity the DC meter will be enough. But the experts know that Stokes drift is everywhere. Stokes drift and longitudinal electric waves in the wires (Oliver Lodge) were discowered before electrons.It is obvious that the both apply to the electron gas. Electrons also travel through a capacitor. AC pulses are never simmetric. S* ok, i put my electroscope in place of ground, no movement in the gold leaf when i transmit. i also borrowed a very sensitive electrostatic voltmeter and do not see any voltage buildup on the radio when i transmit. and my rf waves are as perfectly symmetric as i can measure on a scope, even taking one and delaying it 180 degrees and subtracting from the source gives me a flat line that i can not measure any distortion on. so, what is your predicted shape of these distorted waves?? i see a nice sine wave function, you must have some other solution for harmonic motion and the wave equations, please provide your solution that includes the asymmetry terms we should be looking for. |
#207
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Antenna materials
"K1TTT" wrote ... On Nov 5, 8:32 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote: So your electrons only oscillate (no Stokes drift)? should be looking for so i may not be measuring properly. At first you must have a radio which do not work without ground. No chassis no AC supply. If you are able to prepare such the rest will be easy. got it... plastic case, battery powered, only does 5w that that is easy to measure. now how much dc current should i measure in the ground lead when i transmit with 5w? You know: "more than electron per cycle and less than infinity". For one you should use an electroscope (in place of ground). Charge it and check what your radio needs to work (+ or -). For more, the steem generator should be beest. "At Cramlington Colliery, Sedgehill, Newcastle on Tyne (Northumberland, England) high pressure steam broke through the cement around the safety valve of a locomotive boiler. The Engine-Man held a shovel in the steam and with a penknife in his other hand, held about 3/8 inch from the boiler, produced electric sparks.". In such arrangment the shovel has an exces of electrons and the boiler a deficit. Close to infinity the DC meter will be enough. But the experts know that Stokes drift is everywhere. Stokes drift and longitudinal electric waves in the wires (Oliver Lodge) were discowered before electrons.It is obvious that the both apply to the electron gas. Electrons also travel through a capacitor. AC pulses are never simmetric. S* ok, i put my electroscope in place of ground, no movement in the gold leaf when i transmit. i also borrowed a very sensitive electrostatic voltmeter and do not see any voltage buildup on the radio when i transmit. Your radio do not transmit without ground. The leaf are not the inexhaustible reservoir of electrons. Charged electroscobe is a tiny rasevoir. and my rf waves are as perfectly symmetric as i can measure on a scope, even taking one and delaying it 180 degrees and subtracting from the source gives me a flat line that i can not measure any distortion on. Working transmitter is like the Ruhmkorff coil or Tesla coil: "In April 1887, Tesla began investigating what would later be called X-rays using his own single terminal vacuum tubes (similar to his patent #514,170). This device differed from other early X-ray tubes in that it had no target electrode. The modern term for the phenomenon produced by this device is bremsstrahlung (or braking radiation). We now know that this device operated by emitting electrons from the single electrode through a combination of field electron emission and thermionic emission. Once liberated, electrons are strongly repelled by the high electric field near the electrode during negative voltage peaks from the oscillating HV output of the Tesla Coil, generating X rays as they collide with the glass envelope." The both are like the electron gun. They do not work without the electrons reservoir (ground). so, what is your predicted shape of these distorted waves?? i see a nice sine wave function, you must have some other solution for harmonic motion and the wave equations, please provide your solution that includes the asymmetry terms we should be looking for. For equations see "Stokes drift" Each pulse from a wave source, whan reach the end of the antenna, create the high voltage pike. Next the voltage drops and create the opposite pike. In reality they are not symmetric. In Ruhmkorf's the first is huge and the second almost zero. But you know that the antenna must be tunned. Probably the field emission starts after tunning. It would be interesting to measure the voltage pikes on the tip of CB whip before and after tunning. If the voltage pikes are asymmetric than the field emissin/absorption also and we have Stokes drift. Look at: http://remeeus.eu/english/hamradio/a...ial_ground.htm It is simply chassis with large metalic surfaces. How to mesure Stokes drift - it is a question. I am sure that the experts did it from the radio beginning. I am not an expert. S* |
#208
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Antenna materials
On Nov 6, 9:10*am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
*"K1TTT" ... On Nov 5, 8:32 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote: So your electrons only oscillate (no Stokes drift)? should be looking for so i may not be measuring properly. At first you must have a radio which do not work without ground. No chassis *no AC supply. If you are able to prepare such the rest will be easy. got it... plastic case, battery powered, only does 5w that that is easy to measure. now how much dc current should i measure in the ground lead when i transmit with 5w? You know: "more than electron per cycle and less than infinity". For one you should use an electroscope (in place of ground). Charge it and check what your radio needs to work (+ or -). For more, the steem generator should be beest. "At Cramlington Colliery, Sedgehill, Newcastle on Tyne (Northumberland, England) high pressure steam broke through the cement around the safety valve of a locomotive boiler.. The Engine-Man held a shovel in the steam and with a penknife in his other hand, held about 3/8 inch from the boiler, produced electric sparks.". In such arrangment the shovel has an exces of electrons and the boiler a deficit. Close to infinity the DC meter will be enough. But the experts know that Stokes drift is everywhere. Stokes drift and longitudinal electric waves in the wires (Oliver Lodge) were discowered before electrons.It is obvious that the both apply to the electron gas. Electrons also travel through a capacitor. AC pulses are never simmetric. S* ok, i put my electroscope in place of ground, no movement in the gold leaf when i transmit. *i also borrowed a very sensitive electrostatic voltmeter and do not see any voltage buildup on the radio when i transmit. Your radio do not transmit without ground. The leaf are not the inexhaustible reservoir of electrons. Charged electroscobe is a tiny rasevoir. and my rf waves are as perfectly symmetric as i can measure on a scope, even taking one and delaying it 180 degrees and subtracting from the source gives me a flat line that i can not measure any distortion on. Working transmitter is like the Ruhmkorff coil or Tesla coil: "In April 1887, Tesla began investigating what would later be called X-rays using his own single terminal vacuum tubes (similar to his patent #514,170). This device differed from other early X-ray tubes in that it had no target electrode. The modern term for the phenomenon produced by this device is bremsstrahlung (or braking radiation). We now know that this device operated by emitting electrons from the single electrode through a combination of field electron emission and thermionic emission. Once liberated, electrons are strongly repelled by the high electric field near the electrode during negative voltage peaks from the oscillating HV output of the Tesla Coil, generating X rays as they collide with the glass envelope." The both are like the electron gun. They do not work without the electrons reservoir (ground). so, what is your predicted shape of these distorted waves?? *i see a nice sine wave function, you must have some other solution for harmonic motion and the wave equations, please provide your solution that includes the asymmetry terms we should be looking for. For equations see "Stokes drift" Each pulse from a wave source, whan reach the end of the antenna, create the high voltage pike. Next the voltage drops and create the opposite pike. In reality they are not symmetric. In Ruhmkorf's the first is huge and the second almost zero. But you know that the antenna must be tunned. Probably the field emission starts after tunning. It would be interesting to measure the voltage pikes on the tip of CB whip before and after tunning. If the voltage pikes are asymmetric than the field emissin/absorption also and we have Stokes drift. *Look at:http://remeeus.eu/english/hamradio/a...ial_ground.htm It is simply chassis with large metalic surfaces. How to mesure Stokes drift - it is a question. I am sure that the experts did it from the radio beginning. I am not an expert. S* i have measured the voltage at the tip of an antenna, it is a nice sine wave, no spikes. we don't use spark gap any more if you haven't noticed, modern radios use nice symmetric sine wave circuits. if we didn't have nice sine waves there would be harmonics that would interfere with other bands. your distorted waves would be horrible in today's world. look up specifications for distortion in radio transmitters and then go study fourier transforms to see the effects of distortion on the spectrum of the signal. i am bored, you have no new theories like art does, you just keep picking random unrelated facts, so this just isn't fun any more. |
#209
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Antenna materials
"K1TTT" wrote ... On Nov 6, 9:10 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote: But you know that the antenna must be tunned. Probably the field emission starts after tunning. It would be interesting to measure the voltage pikes on the tip of CB whip before and after tunning. If the voltage pikes are asymmetric than the field emissin/absorption also and we have Stokes drift. How to mesure Stokes drift - it is a question. i have measured the voltage at the tip of an antenna, it is a nice sine wave, no spikes. How many volts is before tunnig and after. we don't use spark gap any more if you haven't noticed, modern radios use nice symmetric sine wave circuits. if we didn't have nice sine waves there would be harmonics that would interfere with other bands. your distorted waves would be horrible in today's world. look up specifications for distortion in radio transmitters and then go study fourier transforms to see the effects of distortion on the spectrum of the signal. It seems that distortion is very small. i am bored, you have no new theories like art does, you just keep picking random unrelated facts, so this just isn't fun any more. I am tired also. I come back whan I find "How to measure Stokes drift" Best Regards, Szczepan |
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