Tom Ring wrote:
This "power user" thing is something I've never heard anyone in the
business speak of, so I have no idea why you would get bumped. If you
are not breaking the TOS agreement, ISPs don't care a rat's rear end how
much traffic you generate. You buy a pipe from the ISP and you have
every right to fill it if you can.

Yes, and the ISP has the right to simply stop offering you service as well.

BTW, the same thing happens with cell phone usage... many plans now have
'unlimited minutes,' but in actuality your usage is tracked and people who
use far, FAR more minutes than the average are usually sent warnings letters
or politely told that the provider no longer wishes to offer them service.

On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:03:39 -0500, Tom Ring
wrote:

Close, but not quite.

An ISP will buy pipes, such as a DS3 that does 45Mbps, for a flat rate
per month. Theoretically the upstream provider doesn't care if 1 bps or
45 Mbps are passing through that pipe; from a billing perspective, they
get the same money. But they have to play the statistical game on how
much upstream pipe that they need to handle all the 45Mbps pipes they
sold to ISPs like you. And eventually you get to the backbone
providers, who have really really big pipes, and very expensive routers.

This "power user" thing is something I've never heard anyone in the
business speak of, so I have no idea why you would get bumped. If you

I've been hearing the term ever since I got on the net and that was in
96 with my own site and in 87 through the colleges.

are not breaking the TOS agreement, ISPs don't care a rat's rear end how
much traffic you generate. You buy a pipe from the ISP and you have

Maybe you don't but many do.
They price their services based on an average user and they have a
multi tiered service.

Here if the average user is on 32 hours a month they don't complain
until you hit around 5 or 6 times the average user.

As I'm on DSL and networked 24 X 7 I pay a different rate than the
dial up customer.

Then even as a commercial user rates are based on the "bandwidth"
used. I have both a high bandwidth limit and a lot of storage, but if
my use, or my site generates traffic beyond a given point the rates go
up, or like many sites I've attempted to visit you find the "This site
has exceeded it's bandwidth limit for today", please try again
tomorrow.

every right to fill it if you can. The only exception to that would be
that you have a maximum number of hours or bytes per month. They won't
kick you if you exceed it, they just charge you an additional amount

Only if you have that agreement. Most I've seen just block access to
the site for the day, and I've come across a lot of those "this site
has exceeded...." pages.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
that you agreed to in your contract with them. Some ISPs may do it a
bit differently, but that's fairly normal in the industry.

tom
K0TAR

Tyas_MT wrote:

"Reg Edwards" wrote in message
...

Anything which increases traffic volume benefits Internet service

providers.

Uhm no... If a normal customer is using more bandwidth (receiving and
sending more email, committing virus controlled DDoS attacks, etc) Internet
service providers LOSE MONEY. They pay by the byte, you don't. Most
customers pay a flat fee for internet access. This is true of most Cable,
DSL, ISDN, and Dial-up setups... they are priced based on an expectation of
'normal' usage, and the ISP loses money in 'extreme' usage cases. Why I ( a
'power user') get nasty emails from ISP's and have to switch often.... this
one is good about that though.

On the tiered service, we do unlimited only, so I can't address that issue.

On the limited bytes, sounds like you are talking about a hosted site.
Totally different deal. Unless I am misunderstanding. We generally
don't do that, except on our high volume commercial customers. And then
we do charge by the byte, sort of. If a "free" site to one of our
dialup/DSL/ISDN customers gets out of hand we will speak to them about
it, of course, but nothing cuts it off automatically.

tom
K0TAR

Roger Halstead wrote:

On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:03:39 -0500, Tom Ring
wrote:



are not breaking the TOS agreement, ISPs don't care a rat's rear end how
much traffic you generate. You buy a pipe from the ISP and you have


Maybe you don't but many do.
They price their services based on an average user and they have a
multi tiered service.

Here if the average user is on 32 hours a month they don't complain
until you hit around 5 or 6 times the average user.

As I'm on DSL and networked 24 X 7 I pay a different rate than the
dial up customer.

Then even as a commercial user rates are based on the "bandwidth"
used. I have both a high bandwidth limit and a lot of storage, but if
my use, or my site generates traffic beyond a given point the rates go
up, or like many sites I've attempted to visit you find the "This site
has exceeded it's bandwidth limit for today", please try again
tomorrow.


every right to fill it if you can. The only exception to that would be
that you have a maximum number of hours or bytes per month. They won't
kick you if you exceed it, they just charge you an additional amount


Only if you have that agreement. Most I've seen just block access to
the site for the day, and I've come across a lot of those "this site
has exceeded...." pages.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

that you agreed to in your contract with them. Some ISPs may do it a
bit differently, but that's fairly normal in the industry.

tom
K0TAR

Tyas_MT wrote:


"Reg Edwards" wrote in message
...


Anything which increases traffic volume benefits Internet service

providers.

Uhm no... If a normal customer is using more bandwidth (receiving and
sending more email, committing virus controlled DDoS attacks, etc) Internet
service providers LOSE MONEY. They pay by the byte, you don't. Most
customers pay a flat fee for internet access. This is true of most Cable,
DSL, ISDN, and Dial-up setups... they are priced based on an expectation of
'normal' usage, and the ISP loses money in 'extreme' usage cases. Why I ( a
'power user') get nasty emails from ISP's and have to switch often.... this
one is good about that though.

i had to switch isp's twice because their definitions of 'unlimited' did not
mean 24/7 on a dialup. i was not using much bandwidth, heck i could
normally only get about a 33kbps connection to them, but the modem was tied
up 24/7. on one of them i was a 'charter' member who had been with them
since before they opened... to give me 24/7 access they wanted to go from
their 'unlimited' account charge of $20/mo to around $300/mo on dialup. i
ended up buying a business isdn service for 24/7 access to get more
bandwidth and real unlimited access, the total for the line and isp is about
$150/mo with one static ip.... some day we may get dsl out here and that wll
come down to a reasonable charge.

"Tyas_MT" wrote in message
...
"Reg Edwards" wrote in message
...
Anything which increases traffic volume benefits Internet service
providers.

Uhm no... If a normal customer is using more bandwidth (receiving and
sending more email, committing virus controlled DDoS attacks, etc)
Internet
service providers LOSE MONEY. They pay by the byte, you don't. Most
customers pay a flat fee for internet access. This is true of most Cable,
DSL, ISDN, and Dial-up setups... they are priced based on an expectation
of
'normal' usage, and the ISP loses money in 'extreme' usage cases. Why I
( a
'power user') get nasty emails from ISP's and have to switch often....
this
one is good about that though.

On 23 Apr 2004 16:48:40 GMT, (Arrow146) wrote:

Who writes VIRUS programs ?

High School kids mostly (or their emotional equivalent).

Who makes a profit from it ?

Big ego boost - money can't buy that.

Any chance it could be those who sell the ANTI VIRUS software ?
Just a thought!!

They can't afford to pay teenagers to do it.

In article ,
Arrow146 wrote:

Who writes VIRUS programs ?
Who makes a profit from it ?

Any chance it could be those who sell the ANTI VIRUS software ?
Just a thought!!

That thought has been raised by numerous people, over the past couple
of decades (ever since MS-DOS viruses began to be a significant
problem).

I've never heard anyone put forth *any* credible evidence at all,
which indicated that the commercial anti-virus-software companies or
programmers had had anything to do with writing or releasing the
viruses.

Based on what I can see, the motives behind virus and trojanwriting a

- Ego and bragging rights. Releasing a virus which spreads widely and
gets a lot of visibility in the press provides the author(s) with a
sense of importance.

At the moment, there seems to be an ongoing battle between the
authors of two or three of the currently-most-active virus/worm
families. They're actually releasing viruses or worms which [1]
contain code to identify, and remove their rivals' viruses, and [2]
contain bragging "We're the best, they're all losers!" statements
embedded in the code.

- Spamming ability. Quite a few of the more recent viruses, worms,
and trojan horses contain software which installs specialized
email-processing software and web/email/TCP proxy servers. A large
percentage (half or more, I've heard) of the spam flooding the
Internet is now being sent through home PCs on DSL and cable-modem
networks, which have been compromised by these viruses. Previous
spam-fighting efforts had succeeded in shutting down many of the
open email relays, and poorly-installed open proxy servers that the
spammers had been abusing, and it's widely believed that major
spam-gangs have commissioned virus-authors to implement these viral
mail relays. The motive, in this case, is profit: spammers can
flood millions of people with spam at almost no cost, and even a
handful of sales can earn them enough money to be worth the effort.


--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

Hi Dave

Perhaps I'm all wet on this, but I thought most reputable ISP's had a
program in place that blocked outgoing e-mail over a certain quantity,
configurable of course to allow certain users their needed outbound
e-mail activity.

I know when I was doing a newsletter that if I tried to send to
everyone on the list at once, my ISP would block the transmission and
an auto-responder would tell me to contact my ISP immediately.
I would do so and tell them I was sending out a newsletter.
They would either A: up my daily mailing limit or B: tell me to break
it into 25 unit pieces.

It seems to me that it wouldn't be to hard to implement a program that
verified the domain of inbound e-mail. Most of the spam I do get has
fraudulent headers.

Although my ISP will do the filtering for me, I still elect to receive
all of my inbound e-mail, including the spam, and have my own sets of
filters that knock about 99% of it out, without fear of losing a valid
e-mail that I should have received.

TTUL
Gary

On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:17:06 -0000, (Dave Platt)
wrote:

In article ,
Arrow146 wrote:

Who writes VIRUS programs ?
Who makes a profit from it ?
snip

- Spamming ability. Quite a few of the more recent viruses, worms,
and trojan horses contain software which installs specialized
email-processing software and web/email/TCP proxy servers. A large
percentage (half or more, I've heard) of the spam flooding the
Internet is now being sent through home PCs on DSL and cable-modem
networks, which have been compromised by these viruses. Previous
spam-fighting efforts had succeeded in shutting down many of the
open email relays, and poorly-installed open proxy servers that the
spammers had been abusing, and it's widely believed that major
spam-gangs have commissioned virus-authors to implement these viral
mail relays. The motive, in this case, is profit: spammers can
flood millions of people with spam at almost no cost, and even a
handful of sales can earn them enough money to be worth the effort.

You missed revenge and or jealousy...The DOS attacks against specific
sites because they either do or say something the writer happens to
disagree with, or doesn't like.

Most viruses and worms are relatively simple and many have depended on
the gullibility of the user to actually run them. Links to malicious
sites from newsgroup postings...(See what ever star in the shower,
Go here for an interesting site) There must be users dumb enough to
click on these links. Then there are the "updates" to show up as if
they are real when in fact they are viruses, Trojans, and worms.
Popular of late is: The e-mail server will be down for a couple of
days, please click on the link to update your file so we can forward
your e-mail during the outage. Of course there were the Microsoft
Security updates where you clicked on a link that didn't go to the MS
site.

As far as money, there are the "We are making changes and need to
update your e-bay account (quite a number of businesses have been
listed). It has you click on a link and it *appears* as if you have
been taken to the proper site where they ask for your account name and
have your log in. Of course while at it you have to update your credit
card information as well.

"Some" viruses/worms/Trojans are quite sophisticated and even "call
home" to check the payload for the day, or week, or what ever. Some
"morph" or evolve. Some are capable of running as soon as you open
the mail and some e-mail will load information from malicious sites,
which is a good reason for not using HTML e-mail. Macros can make a
mess. Visual basic which is part of MS office apps can do virtually
anything on your machine.

Some can search your machine looking for account and financial
information, credit card numbers, SS#, ... and so on..
Some leave a keystroke logger which can be checked later for account
names and pass words.

I can't imagine not having virus protection AND a fire wall. I've set
here and watched a probe check all the ports on the machine and when
it couldn't get in it started over. OTOH no machine is invulnerable
when it's hooked to the net.

In one year I received over 250 viruses and worms. Although I haven't
received many in a long time, I received 5 yesterday in half an hour.
These are viruses that made it past the ISPs checking.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.comRoger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Hello,

That's what I suspect!

"Arrow146" wrote in message
...
Who writes VIRUS programs ?
Who makes a profit from it ?

Any chance it could be those who sell the ANTI VIRUS software ?
Just a thought!!

73 Al Lowe N0IMW