On Jun 4, 9:10*pm, Michael wrote:
On Jun 4, 11:42*am, Richard Clark wrote:



On Sat, 4 Jun 2011 07:04:28 -0700 (PDT), Michael

wrote:
but the final
verdict is not what I had hoped.

probably because it is unbalanced by being connected:to the antenna tuner

which through its ground connection unbalances theLazyH.

For the entire duration of your discussion, I've seen no treatment for
common mode problems that you have described by various symptoms in
the past. *Your complaint of poor performance is a chief indicator.

Other indications have ranged variably from glaring beyond that to not
apparent yet remaining a problem still, as is obvious by the poor gain
performance for all variations.

You already have the solution in the other antenna: a 1:1 balun and then 50 ohm coax is a solid
performer

provided the BalUn is a W2DU.

Your problem is NOT the antenna!

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

The tuners I have both have built in baluns. After I took down theLazyH I put up a delta loop with 300 ohm twin lead back to the same
balanced line tuner connections. *The delta loop out performed the
dipole by a hair, but the delta loop has a height advantage over the
dipole.

I have some other baluns lying around. * I suppose I could hook the
450 ladder line to one of those baluns and then connect a coax jumper
between it and the antenna tuner and try it. *It seems like they may
be W2AU baluns. I bought them back in the 1990s, but I have not looked
at the labels in awhile.

I still may try the end fedLazyHwith the twist.

Michael

I just remembered most of those external baluns are 1:1 baluns. I do
have one external commercial 4:1 balun, and one 4:1 balun I hand wound
from a schematic in one of my antenna books.

-Michael

On Sat, 4 Jun 2011 19:38:55 -0700 (PDT), Michael
wrote:

I just remembered most of those external baluns are 1:1 baluns. I do
have one external commercial 4:1 balun, and one 4:1 balun I hand wound
from a schematic in one of my antenna books.

Hi Michael,

The odds are that the BalUns you wound are similar to the ones in your
tuner(s) - and they will NOT do the job properly.

By properly, the BalUn MUST choke the line. This comes for free with
the W2DU style, as there is only one way to build one, the right way.

The distinction is between what are called voltage BalUns and current
BalUns. Frequently, web sites that purport to know the difference
DON'T know the difference. The W2DU BalUn is an example of a current
BalUn with a 1:1 ratio. It is also a choke. Very few BalUns that are
published on the web are current BalUns. Similarly, very few have the
necessary choking action.

One solution is to feed a W2DU BalUn, that in turn feeds any BalUn
with the required transformation ratio, that then in turn feeds the
antenna. The W2DU BalUn takes care of the proper choking action
needed. However, this may not work with the internal BalUns found in
nearly every tuner on the market. (How does one insert the choke to
an internal BalUn?) Problem here is that if there is ANY path to
ground that goes around the choke, you have just made it an exercise
in futility.

And lastly, you have described a number of problems with the antenna
that were both inside and outside of the focus of gain. ALL were
functions of Common Mode currents. Choking the line is the best
all-around solution.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Update on the 10 meter Lazy H...

I did a little reading on ladder line at the web page below;

http://www.athensarc.org/ladder.asp

and then in the ARRL handbook.

With the knowledge gained form the two sources I made the following
changes;

I changed the length of the 450 ohm ladder line feeding the antenna
to make sure it was not a multiple of a 1/2 wavelength at 10 meters,
and the antenna tuner was able to tune the Lazy H more easily. I also
suspect there may be a problem with the balun in the Dentron MT-3000a
tuner. When I hook up the Drake MN-75 tuner with the internal 4:1
balun I hand wound myself I am seeing gain from the Lazy H antenna in
it's preferred direction compared to the dipole, but when I switch to
the Dentron MT-3000a I am not seeing gain when I compare the dipole to
the Lazy H. I think I am going to remove the factory balun from the
Dentron MT-3000a and hand wind a new 4:1 balun for it.

Michael Rawls
KS4HY