U¿ytkownik "Rob" napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"Howard K0ACF" napisa3 w wiadomo?ci
...

"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
.. .

"The wire antennas used with crystal receivers are monopole antennas
which develop their output voltage with respect to ground. They require
a
return circuit connected to ground (earth) so that the current from the
antenna, after passing through the receiver, can flow into the ground."

I had a crystal radio & the antenna was a piece of wire hanging out of
it
& the radio was built in a wooden box & I could listen to it on the
second
floor of a wooden building & sitting on a wooden chair. no connection to
the ground (earth) as you say is required & the station I listened to
was
a daytime station located about 50 miles away...How did it work & no
connection to the ground (earth) as you say is required & no battery
power
& the crystal had a cat wisker for tuning...

Ian wrote:
"Normally there is a tuned circuit at the input, which consists of a
coil and capacitor in parallel. The DC flows through the coil.

At the output there either is a high-impedance magnetic headphone,
which conducts DC through its coil, or a crystal headphone with a
resistor in parallel for the DC path."

Next the DC flows into "ground":

NO NO NO NO NO!!!!

The DC flows in a circle inside the receiver!!!

When you see the schematic diagram of a working crystal receiver,
you can make a trip trough the diode, through other components in
the receiver, all conducting DC, back to the the point where you
started at the diode.

This path must exist and this is where the DC flows.

The path is the ground: "The use of the term ground (or earth) is so common
in electrical and
electronics applications that circuits in portable electronic devices such
as cell phones and media players as well as circuits in vehicles such as
ships, aircraft, and spacecraft may be spoken of as having a "ground"
connection without any actual connection to the Earth. This is usually a
large conductor attached to one side of the power supply "

When there is no such path, a DC voltage equal to the peak value
of the HF voltage will develop across the diode, the diode will
no longer conduct, and there is no more rectification. Hence the
receiver will not work.

This is not related to "ground". There must be HF voltage at
the input of the receiver, but it is not important if it is between
a monopole antenna and ground or between the poles of a dipole.

Each voltage disappear (leakage) with the time. That before diode and that
after. The leakage is always and everywhere.
The leakage is surface and humidity dependent.

You can even make a crystal receiver with a ferrite rod as an
antenna, which will operate without any ground.

Leakage do the work.
S*

Szczepan Bialek wrote:
"Normally there is a tuned circuit at the input, which consists of a
coil and capacitor in parallel. The DC flows through the coil.

At the output there either is a high-impedance magnetic headphone,
which conducts DC through its coil, or a crystal headphone with a
resistor in parallel for the DC path."

Next the DC flows into "ground":

NO NO NO NO NO!!!!

The DC flows in a circle inside the receiver!!!

When you see the schematic diagram of a working crystal receiver,
you can make a trip trough the diode, through other components in
the receiver, all conducting DC, back to the the point where you
started at the diode.

This path must exist and this is where the DC flows.

The path is the ground:

Can't you read?
Or are you even dumber than I already think?

The path is not to the ground. It is a circle inside the receiver.

When there is no such path, a DC voltage equal to the peak value
of the HF voltage will develop across the diode, the diode will
no longer conduct, and there is no more rectification. Hence the
receiver will not work.

This is not related to "ground". There must be HF voltage at
the input of the receiver, but it is not important if it is between
a monopole antenna and ground or between the poles of a dipole.

Each voltage disappear (leakage) with the time. That before diode and that
after. The leakage is always and everywhere.
The leakage is surface and humidity dependent.

Only a bad designer will design equipment that requires leakage to
operate. Of course there will be some bad schematics of crystal receivers
around, where there is no obvious DC path around the diode, and maybe
sometimes (depending on construction details) one may be able to hear
some sound, but it is NOT the way it should be done and it is NOT the
explanation of the workings of the receiver.
Except maybe to someone in 1900, who did not understand it fully.

You can even make a crystal receiver with a ferrite rod as an
antenna, which will operate without any ground.

Leakage do the work.

I think leakage has done the work to your brain. Leakage from the
beer bottle, that is.

"Rob" napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
"Normally there is a tuned circuit at the input, which consists of a
coil and capacitor in parallel. The DC flows through the coil.

At the output there either is a high-impedance magnetic headphone,
which conducts DC through its coil, or a crystal headphone with a
resistor in parallel for the DC path."

Next the DC flows into "ground":

NO NO NO NO NO!!!!

The DC flows in a circle inside the receiver!!!

When you see the schematic diagram of a working crystal receiver,
you can make a trip trough the diode, through other components in
the receiver, all conducting DC, back to the the point where you
started at the diode.

This path must exist and this is where the DC flows.

The path is the ground:

Can't you read?
Or are you even dumber than I already think?

The path is not to the ground. It is a circle inside the receiver.

When there is no such path, a DC voltage equal to the peak value
of the HF voltage will develop across the diode, the diode will
no longer conduct, and there is no more rectification. Hence the
receiver will not work.

This is not related to "ground". There must be HF voltage at
the input of the receiver, but it is not important if it is between
a monopole antenna and ground or between the poles of a dipole.

Each voltage disappear (leakage) with the time. That before diode and
that
after. The leakage is always and everywhere.
The leakage is surface and humidity dependent.

Only a bad designer will design equipment that requires leakage to
operate.

Quit opposite. Only the best know what the counterpoise is. The leakage
supply or expel the electrons to/from it.

See:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=j3h...434678&f=false

The Figs 8 and 9 with the Claim 2.
For what there are so many elements. The simple path should be enough (if
you are right).
Of course there will be some bad schematics of crystal receivers
around, where there is no obvious DC path around the diode, and maybe
sometimes (depending on construction details) one may be able to hear
some sound, but it is NOT the way it should be done and it is NOT the
explanation of the workings of the receiver.
Except maybe to someone in 1900, who did not understand it fully.

They fully understand it. They discovered the induction and the leakage (in
electrostatics).
You simply do not understand that your path is the countrpoise.

You can even make a crystal receiver with a ferrite rod as an
antenna, which will operate without any ground.

Leakage do the work.

I think leakage has done the work to your brain. Leakage from the
beer bottle, that is.

Leakage can transfer the charge from one body to the another.
The same should apply to "brain to brain".
S*

"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
.. .

See:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=j3h...434678&f=false

S*
Ah - we're back to the rectenna which is defined in Wiki thus "A simple
rectenna element consists of a dipole antenna with a diode connected across
the dipole elements".

ttfn, Ian.

"Ian" napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
.. .

See:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=j3h...434678&f=false

S*
Ah - we're back to the rectenna which is defined in Wiki thus "A simple
rectenna element consists of a dipole antenna with a diode connected
across the dipole elements".

Here you are the simple:
http://www.ac-grenoble.fr/yre/agency...e/rap-nuc2.htm

Are the dipole elements symmetrical?
It seems that one of them is a counterpoise.
S*

"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
...

Here you are the simple:
http://www.ac-grenoble.fr/yre/agency...e/rap-nuc2.htm

Are the dipole elements symmetrical?
It seems that one of them is a counterpoise.
S*
Wiki says that a rectenna is "a dipole antenna with a diode connected across
the dipole elements".
A dipole is a balanced, symmetrical aerial and does not have a counterpoise.
I can't be responsible for you being unable to understand what
"symmetrical", "balanced" and "counterpoise" mean. I can suggest / recommend
that you acquire a reference book on aerials from the ARRL or RSGB. You'd
find them immensely helpful.
Regards, Ian.

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"Ian" napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
.. .

See:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=j3h...434678&f=false

S*
Ah - we're back to the rectenna which is defined in Wiki thus "A simple
rectenna element consists of a dipole antenna with a diode connected
across the dipole elements".

Here you are the simple:
http://www.ac-grenoble.fr/yre/agency...e/rap-nuc2.htm

Are the dipole elements symmetrical?

Yes

It seems that one of them is a counterpoise.

Why? I see symmetrical elements.

What you can also see here is that this is another example of what
I wrote earlier: there is a circle in the schematic starting at the
diode where you can go around with DC current and end at the same
point.
This circle is where the DC current flows, not from the elements into
the air.

"Rob" napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:


Here you are the simple:
http://www.ac-grenoble.fr/yre/agency...e/rap-nuc2.htm

Are the dipole elements symmetrical?

Yes

Mechanically.
Also electrically?

It seems that one of them is a counterpoise.

Why? I see symmetrical elements.

I see that the voltages are not symmetrical when the diode shines.
I bet that is the such orientation vs a oven that is the symmetry and no
shine.

What you can also see here is that this is another example of what
I wrote earlier: there is a circle in the schematic starting at the
diode where you can go around with DC current and end at the same
point.
This circle is where the DC current flows, not from the elements into
the air.

From Maxwell's time all circuits are closed. So sometimes the current must
flow in the air. Of course sometimes is enough if only part flows in the
air. It is the leakage.
At HF the leakage is rather large.
S*

Szczepan Bialek wrote:
Only a bad designer will design equipment that requires leakage to
operate.

Quit opposite. Only the best know what the counterpoise is. The leakage
supply or expel the electrons to/from it.

Hogwash.

See:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=j3h...434678&f=false

The Figs 8 and 9 with the Claim 2.
For what there are so many elements. The simple path should be enough (if
you are right).

There is no counterpoise in this antenna.
The full-wave bridge rectifiers provide a DC path through the load
without requiring a DC path in the dipole.

Many elements are used because this antenna is supposed to operate
on microwave, and thus a single element has only a very small capture
area. You stack a lot of them to enlarge the capture area, which is
required to capture all the signals at the point of focus.

Except maybe to someone in 1900, who did not understand it fully.

They fully understand it. They discovered the induction and the leakage (in
electrostatics).
You simply do not understand that your path is the countrpoise.

No, the problem is that I do understand how those circuits work and
you don't. Then you fall back to what was written in 1889 instead of
looking at the design with today's knowledge.

You can even make a crystal receiver with a ferrite rod as an
antenna, which will operate without any ground.

Leakage do the work.

I think leakage has done the work to your brain. Leakage from the
beer bottle, that is.

Leakage can transfer the charge from one body to the another.
The same should apply to "brain to brain".

You are too far gone to understand what the bottle has done to you.