On Mon, 10 Sep 2012 10:35:34 +0000, ULLS
wrote:

First off, I am attempting to auto switch/scan between two frequencies
on AM. I have FM and internet streams sorted. The tuner is a Cambridge
Audio hifi tuner with an RS232 interface for scanning. I don't recall
the exact model number.

If it's not too much trouble, could you make an effort to determine
the exact model number? I couldn't find a model on their site that
has an RS-232 port for frequency control. Once the model number is
determined, we can then look at the rear panel to see what you're
working with.

While you're at it, it might be useful if you describe the path that
the antenna coax is expected to take on its way to the roof. Is it
metal conduit? Plastic conduit? Random run? Diameter? Numbers?

The tuner can't be relocated as the server is
controlling the frequency scan.

I beg to differ. RS-232 will go about 150ft at 9600 baud without
difficulties.

Obviously I didn't attach it to the FM coax input! I do have a small
amount of common sense.

Assumption, the mother of all screwups.
That which is most obviously correct, beyond any need of checking, is
usually the problem.

The coax cable was already installed, I assume it's standard CT100
75Ohm.

Assumption, the mother of all screwups again. Look at the coax and
get the numbers. Also, what kind of connector.

the loop was just one of those cheap plastic things they bundle with
tuners.

Yep, that's what I figured. They're resonant in the AM band and do
not work with extension wires on the leads. If you're ambitious, you
could tear the plastic loop antenna open, replace the fixed tuning
capacitor with a variable, and experiment with different parallel
transmission line lengths. However, I don't think it will work very
well.

somebody mentioned impedance matching, Thanks! I'm going to look into
this if I can't already find a ready made 50-75Ohm antenna.

Hopefully, you mean 50 to 75 ohms, not 750 ohms. To get the antenna
in this range, you need a 1/2 wave dipole. At 1MHz, that's 468ft
long. You can shrink the antenna with loading coils, but the usable
bandwidth will decrease to the point of uselessness. An active
antenna might work.

However, I suspect all this design effort is a waste of time. The
receiver should be able to hear stations with a minimal antenna. All
you have to do is figure out where someone else went wrong.

somebody else mentioned overloading with an active antenna....this is
central London so there are all kinds of local AM stations....what kind
of damage can be done??

No damage. The effect is called "blocking" where the front end
transistors or FET's rectify the incoming signal and change the bias
point to where the device no longer amplifies. Unless you have an AM
broadcast station literally next door, it's not going to happen. Your
antenna is too small and the field strengths involved are insufficient
to cause problems.

again thanks for your input, you have given me something to work with.

Exact model number please.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Mon, 10 Sep 2012 08:48:38 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

somebody mentioned impedance matching, Thanks! I'm going to look into
this if I can't already find a ready made 50-75Ohm antenna.

Hopefully, you mean 50 to 75 ohms, not 750 ohms.

Oops... When I put on my reading glasses, it became 75Ohms.
My apologies.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 9/10/2012 5:35 AM, ULLS wrote:
Thanks for all your responses!

First off, I am attempting to auto switch/scan between two frequencies
on AM. I have FM and internet streams sorted. The tuner is a Cambridge
Audio hifi tuner with an RS232 interface for scanning. I don't recall
the exact model number. The tuner can't be relocated as the server is
controlling the frequency scan.

Obviously I didn't attach it to the FM coax input! I do have a small
amount of common sense.

The coax cable was already installed, I assume it's standard CT100
75Ohm.

the loop was just one of those cheap plastic things they bundle with
tuners.


somebody mentioned impedance matching, Thanks! I'm going to look into
this if I can't already find a ready made 50-75Ohm antenna.

somebody else mentioned overloading with an active antenna....this is
central London so there are all kinds of local AM stations....what kind
of damage can be done??

again thanks for your input, you have given me something to work with.





Without knowing what model you have, I looked at the AZAR 651 series.
http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/assets...-01English.pdf

All I see is 300 ohm connection for a loop AM antenna.
So, if you use an antenna on the roof, and 75 ohm coax coming down,
then a 75 to 300 ohm transformer into the receiver. I may even shorten
the leads on the 300 ohm side just to limit ingress.
Does the receiver make all the tones if you short the AM input with a
very short wire?
Mikek

Thanks! it is the Azur range, I don't go to London often so I can't check the exact model right now....thanks for spotting the 300 Ohm in, the white text on the unit was worn away. when I shorted the input the tone was not present. I'm going to go back in a couple of weeks and get this sorted. Thanks!

On Friday, September 7, 2012 6:58:38 AM UTC-7, ULLS wrote:
I am trying to receive an am signal well below ground level in a metal

server room, there is a coax feed up to the roof which I used and

attached the standard wire loop that was supplied with the tuner,

however when I attempted to tune into some stations I could only pick up

a couple of local stations and wasn't able to receive the ones I was

hoping for. when I dialed in the desired frequencies, all I was

receiving was a tone, the tone changed in frequency/pitch depending on

the tuners frequency. To check that I could receive the stations I took

the tuner to the roof and attached the antenna directly and sure enough

I could pick up the desired stations. My thoughts are that the coax is

affecting the signal in some way, perhaps picking up electrical noise?

any advice would be appreciated.

Two approaches possible: (1) Disconnect the wire loop from the tuner and attach
the coax to the connection points formerly used for the loop.

(2) wrap about fifteen turns of lightweight insulated wire around the loop that came with the tuner. Attach one end of this wire to the coax shield and the other end to the coax center conductor. (It's an RF transformer.)