Thanks Channel Jumper,
but not sure which frequency I would most operate on. So with the tuner I
have I want suitable access to as many as possible. I think rebuilding the
DX CC is ok for what I want to achieve.

Do you know what is the critical points regarding those coils? I found out
the copper wire coil I have is 12ga and solid, 300meters of it, it has a
nylon jacket with a plastic layer around that. Regular industrial stuff.
So regarding those coils, could I simply replace that thinner transformer
wire with windings of the same 12ga solid in jacket that will comprise of
the rest of the dipole? Is it length of that coil's copper (badly oxidized)
that is critical or is it coil turns? The present diameter of those coils is
much smaller than the 12ga, so should I make new coils with that thinner
transformer wire and make two solder connections there or can I simply weave
the 12ga in its place? What would you recommend in this situation because I
want to rebuild this good dipole with new copper.

Thanks

73s




"Channel Jumper" wrote in message
...

Throw it away.

Make a dipole for the longest frequency you desire to operate on.

Formula is 33 / 66

Make the one leg 33% of the length of the frequency and make the other
side so that when combined to the first leg equals 66% of the total
length for the dipole.

A true Dipole is a half wavelength at the center cut frequency.

I use the term dipole loosely - because it is a non terminated antenna
that has two sides...

It will then be resonant somewhere on all frequencies above the center
cut frequency as long as the Q of the coil is high.
Don't use a low Q coil balun...




--
Channel Jumper

I'm not sure if this will be helpful or wanted.

But your dipole antenna needs to be resonant - 1/2 wavelength on the lowest frequency you desire to operate on.
Because most amateur radio frequencies are multiples of other frequencies - 10 / 20 / 60 / 80 / 160
Some wavelengths will work with one antenna - as long as you do not try to tune up on a non resonant frequency.

This is the problem with the G5RV
The ladder line is the matching network and it only works on 20 meters.
When you try to tune it up on 10 or 40 - it tries to damage the tuner - arcing and heating.

At the same time, some will not be feasable - even with the tuner - such as 12 / 15 / 17 / 30 / 60

It does no good to transmit if you cannot hear.

[quote='Tom[_8_];797940']Thanks Channel Jumper,
but not sure which frequency I would most operate on. So with the tuner I
have I want suitable access to as many as possible. I think rebuilding the
DX CC is ok for what I want to achieve.



Thanks

73s

On Sunday, October 28, 2012 6:18:58 PM UTC-5, Channel Jumper wrote:
But your dipole antenna needs to be resonant - 1/2 wavelength on the
lowest frequency you desire to operate on.

Like the G5RV that you dislike, if one removed the feedline from a 1/2WL resonant center-fed dipole, it is no longer resonant. Resonance implies a low resistive feedpoint impedance. The G5RV antenna system has a low resistive impedance looking into the series matching section on 75m, 40m, and 20m (also on 12m).

3/2WL dipole + 1/2WL feedline = resonance on 20m

3/4WL dipole + 1/4WL feedline = resonance on 40m

3/8WL dipole + 1/8WL feedline = resonance on 75m.

The (G5RV) ladder line is the matching network and it only works on 20 meters.

Here's technical proof that it also works on 75m and 40m.

http://www.w5dxp.com/G5RV.HTM

The Smith Chart SWR arc indicates how series section transformers really work. The G5RV is a reasonably good antenna on 75m, 40m, 20m, and 12m. Not so good on 15m and not good at all on 30m, 17m, and 10m. A ZS6BKW is a better choice to obtain 17m and 10m but one loses 75m.

The G5RV antenna system is what it is. It is neither a gift from Heaven nor a design straight from Hell.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

I made the G5RV and I am receiving a lot of RF in the shack. I also have
installed infloor heating in many parts of the house and while trying to
tune, I trip the GFI thermostats, I believe that is coming from the G5RV.
Channel Jumper mentioned that before that it was a dirty transmitting
antenna. Now I am learning and installing ferrite rods (wrapping feeds from
my power supply aound the 3/8" x 6" Ferrite Rods. I am going to wrap about 5
rotations and tape them up. Seems practically all I can do. Which is better?
The ferrite bars to be wrapped around, at the ends of the feeds from power
supply or the RF chokes that simply clamp onto the cable, two halves coming
together? Any tips there are helpful.

Also, I landed an old Alpha Delta DX CC, now this was in the air for about
16 years and is very green. I want to rewire this antenna in hopes it
performs best. My question is about those coils. Do I have to find the
transformer wire which is smaller guage than the 12 ga wire I have to wind
those coils? Or can I simply replace those green tranformer wire coils with
the 12ga copper wire that I am using to replace all the legs of this fan
dipole? I am just basically duplicating the dipole's engineering, but not
the coils. I am wondering about those coils, do they need to have that
shalac tranformer smaller guage wire with two soldered connections or can it
be wound by the 12 ga copper wire and not have those two soldered
connections. One wire for the entier leg and have it wound around that coil
core.

What is the critical point here? The length of the wire or number of wraps
on the 1-1/4" tubing they used? Or are they the same anyway? Would 50 coils
of 12ga be the same length as what looks like 22ga? Same distance?

Thanks for the great discussions

73s






"W5DXP" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, October 28, 2012 6:18:58 PM UTC-5, Channel Jumper wrote:
But your dipole antenna needs to be resonant - 1/2 wavelength on the
lowest frequency you desire to operate on.

Like the G5RV that you dislike, if one removed the feedline from a 1/2WL
resonant center-fed dipole, it is no longer resonant. Resonance implies a
low resistive feedpoint impedance. The G5RV antenna system has a low
resistive impedance looking into the series matching section on 75m, 40m,
and 20m (also on 12m).

3/2WL dipole + 1/2WL feedline = resonance on 20m

3/4WL dipole + 1/4WL feedline = resonance on 40m

3/8WL dipole + 1/8WL feedline = resonance on 75m.

The (G5RV) ladder line is the matching network and it only works on 20
meters.

Here's technical proof that it also works on 75m and 40m.

http://www.w5dxp.com/G5RV.HTM

The Smith Chart SWR arc indicates how series section transformers really
work. The G5RV is a reasonably good antenna on 75m, 40m, 20m, and 12m. Not
so good on 15m and not good at all on 30m, 17m, and 10m. A ZS6BKW is a
better choice to obtain 17m and 10m but one loses 75m.

The G5RV antenna system is what it is. It is neither a gift from Heaven nor
a design straight from Hell.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

On Monday, October 29, 2012 10:44:24 AM UTC-5, Tom wrote:
I made the G5RV and I am receiving a lot of RF in the shack.

Do you have a husky 1:1 choke balun at the twinlead/coax junction? Are you limiting your operation to 80m, 40m, 20m, and 12m? Is your G5RV high enough and far away enough from the shack to avoid radiated RF overload? Is your G5RV twinlead at least a few inches away from anything conductive? Is your G5RV dipole section horizontal?

If you answered "no" to any of those questions, we might have a clue as to what is the problem.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

On 10/29/2012 7:14 AM, W5DXP wrote:
On Sunday, October 28, 2012 6:18:58 PM UTC-5, Channel Jumper wrote:
But your dipole antenna needs to be resonant - 1/2 wavelength on the
lowest frequency you desire to operate on.

Like the G5RV that you dislike, if one removed the feedline from a 1/2WL resonant center-fed dipole, it is no longer resonant. Resonance implies a low resistive feedpoint impedance. The G5RV antenna system has a low resistive impedance looking into the series matching section on 75m, 40m, and 20m (also on 12m).

3/2WL dipole + 1/2WL feedline = resonance on 20m

3/4WL dipole + 1/4WL feedline = resonance on 40m

3/8WL dipole + 1/8WL feedline = resonance on 75m.

The (G5RV) ladder line is the matching network and it only works on 20 meters.

Here's technical proof that it also works on 75m and 40m.

http://www.w5dxp.com/G5RV.HTM

The Smith Chart SWR arc indicates how series section transformers really work. The G5RV is a reasonably good antenna on 75m, 40m, 20m, and 12m. Not so good on 15m and not good at all on 30m, 17m, and 10m. A ZS6BKW is a better choice to obtain 17m and 10m but one loses 75m.

The G5RV antenna system is what it is. It is neither a gift from Heaven nor a design straight from Hell.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com


Unfortunately that is not proof. Proof is when you compare a tuned
dipole on say 75 and a 102 foot G5RV side by side with a switch to a
simple 1/2 wave dipole. Actual testing like this is required.
Mathematics and graphs are simply that, mathematics and graphs. Those
little plots assume that there are no other variables that have not been
considered or even discovered.

Every time I hear a poor signal breaking into our conversation on 75,
and I ask what is their antenna? You guessed it, a G5RV. I always ask
during any qso what antenna they are using and at what power.

No, it is not a design from hell. It is just a poor excuse for a
multi-band antenna. A trapped multi-band dipole will work better from my
experience and I don't like trapped multi-band antennas. The only
antennas that sound weaker on 75 than the G5RV are the random wire
antennas and a vertical using about 4 or 5 buried ground radials. So,
the G5RV is a step up from those horrible antennas.

The G5RV is only gotten popular because it is cheap to buy and easy to
erect. Performance is very difficult for most ham operators to ascertain
because they have nothing with which to compare their G5RV. Many hams
will give someone who is weak a 5/9 reading just to be congenial. They
are not doing the other operators any favours doing this. I always give
my peak s meter readings. This is certainly not a great standard, but is
honest on my part.

So, Cecil, I think you need to erect a simple 75 meter dipole and a coax
switch. See what the other guys says about your two different s meter
readings on 75 meters. This must be done at different time of the day
and night a often. Keep a log of the results.

Michael

On Monday, October 29, 2012 1:48:16 PM UTC-5, Boomer wrote:
So, Cecil, I think you need to erect a simple 75 meter dipole and a coax
switch. See what the other guys says about your two different s meter
readings on 75 meters.

No need for me to do that, Michael, since Tom, W8JI, has already done it and reported the results. He had an A/B switch between a 1/2WL 75m dipole and a G5RV at the same height. He ran two tests:

1. He told the truth about which antenna he was using for the QSO. Most of the hams on the other end of the QSOs agreed that the 1/2WL dipole was superior.

2. He lied about which antenna was which. Most of the hams on the other end of the QSOs agreed that the 1/2WL dipole was superior. But since W8JI lied, they were really agreeing that the G5RV was superior. Were you one of those hams?
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

On 10/29/2012 2:13 PM, W5DXP wrote:
On Monday, October 29, 2012 1:48:16 PM UTC-5, Boomer wrote:
So, Cecil, I think you need to erect a simple 75 meter dipole and a coax
switch. See what the other guys says about your two different s meter
readings on 75 meters.

No need for me to do that, Michael, since Tom, W8JI, has already done it and reported the results. He had an A/B switch between a 1/2WL 75m dipole and a G5RV at the same height. He ran two tests:

1. He told the truth about which antenna he was using for the QSO. Most of the hams on the other end of the QSOs agreed that the 1/2WL dipole was superior.

2. He lied about which antenna was which. Most of the hams on the other end of the QSOs agreed that the 1/2WL dipole was superior. But since W8JI lied, they were really agreeing that the G5RV was superior. Were you one of those hams?
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com


No Cecil, I was not. I also would have given my s meter readings
regardless of what I thought it should be. It is important to me to give
my fellow hams as much good data on their antenna work as possible. I
also agree that the hams that are asked about which antenna is sounds
better should not know which antenna they are rating. I have a friend
who has an inverted V dipole at 200 feet and a double bazooka as an
inverted V at 75 feet. He is 100 miles away and the lower antenna is
always the biggest signal. This does not make sense to me, but that is
what is actually happening. The angle of both antennas are the same. We
always need to measure actual performance and not paper performance.

I still think you should do this yourself. Just ABing the receiver is an
important test. G5RVs have a reputation that I cannot personally confirm
of being noisy. I do know for certain that some antennas produce more
noise than others.

My loop does a wonderful job of nulling out the noise from my
neighbour's homes and local industry.

Michael

On Monday, October 29, 2012 2:45:22 PM UTC-5, Boomer wrote:
I still think you should do this yourself. Just ABing the receiver is an
important test. G5RVs have a reputation that I cannot personally confirm
of being noisy. I do know for certain that some antennas produce more
noise than others.

I've spent many years experimenting with G5RVs including field strength measurements vs a dipole and a vertical. When someone has a problem with a G5RV on 75m, it is invariably because good engineering practice was not used in that particular design and installation. An inverted-V at 15 feet with no choke/balun and twinlead taped to a conductive pole and/or laying on the ground is certainly not going to work very well. With both antennas properly designed and installed, it is difficult to tell the difference at resonance on 75m. However, the G5RV is fairly non-functional on 30m, 17m, 15m, and 10m. 17m and 10m are necessities for me and that's why I don't use one. I bought a G5RV in the late 80's expecting it to live up to its all-HF band advertising and I was disappointed. That's when I went to my no-tuner all-HF-band 130' dipole.

http://www.w5dxp.com/notuner.htm

Like any dipole where the two dipole elements are DC isolated from each other, the G5RV is susceptible to precipitation static. An RF choke across the conductors will solve that problem.