Hi
I got myself an old Alpha Delta DX CC now, it is old, very green. coils look
green also.

I want to rewind those coils or even rewire the entire thing.

This is the 82ft no trap 80 through 10 dipole. Also includes 12, 17 and 30.

Any advice from the group? I see the coils are using a much thinner wire,
new ones look nice and copper, this one is very green.

What size wire can those coils be? Can I just continue the copper length for
the 80m leg and instead of separate copper winding just use the same copper
and wind it around that winding core?

With the coil is the critical factor its length or number of coils?

Any advice from the group is greatly appreciated

73s









82' No Trap 80 thru 10 Dipole.And it is great ALL bands. This includes 12,
17, and 30.

On 10/26/2012 6:22 PM, Tom wrote:
Hi
I got myself an old Alpha Delta DX CC now, it is old, very green. coils
look green also.

I want to rewind those coils or even rewire the entire thing.

This is the 82ft no trap 80 through 10 dipole. Also includes 12, 17 and 30.

Any advice from the group? I see the coils are using a much thinner
wire, new ones look nice and copper, this one is very green.

What size wire can those coils be? Can I just continue the copper length
for the 80m leg and instead of separate copper winding just use the same
copper and wind it around that winding core?

With the coil is the critical factor its length or number of coils?

Any advice from the group is greatly appreciated

73s









82' No Trap 80 thru 10 Dipole.And it is great ALL bands. This includes
12, 17, and 30.


There are a lot of variables here. Most of which I do not understand. I
have enough experience to know that the number of turns in the coils is
most important and the diameter of the coil is important. If you use the
larger wire for the coils it will likely take a large coil form. You can
certainly use the same wire for the whole antenna. I am just thinking
that if they used thinner wire for the coils, you will not be able to
get enough turns on the form to get the same inductance.

If I were in your place, I would use some insulated stranded #14 house
wire for the whole thing. I would also buy some pvc pipe to allow the
same number of coil turns (and same diameter). If it worked fine before
you started this project, copying it wire length for wire length and
turn for turn would be my plan.

Michael

Hi,
Yes you are very correct. The entire system apparently is working condition
so why not just leave it alone. That is ok.

But it is 16 years in the air and very green, coils are green. When looking
at the photos online the new ones while exactly the same design are
beautiful copper with a clear protective wrap around those coils. Mine
doesn't have that wrap and those coils are very green. The coils are smaller
diameter wire, looking like the transformer wire with that sholack on it but
then there are soldered connections back to the larger diameter bare copper
green wire running to the insulators.

I would have to make another core if I were to wind the same new copper wire
right from the center feed point to the ends of each leg. That would be
basically the only difference other than instead of bare copper wire (new
stuff) I have a big coil of solid copper wire with a jacket, I think it is
16ga. I was hoping to simply replace the exisiting bare green copper wire
and the green coils with new copper wire with the jacket.

So do you think the changing of the coil wire diameter but keeping the same
number of wraps is the way to go? Or because the new copper wire has the
jacket, this will change the number of wraps if I measure the length of the
old coil wire.

Lot of hardware in good shape on this old antenna, I just want to change all
the copper.

Thanks for the advice,

73s




"Boomer" wrote in message
...
On 10/26/2012 6:22 PM, Tom wrote:
Hi
I got myself an old Alpha Delta DX CC now, it is old, very green. coils
look green also.

I want to rewind those coils or even rewire the entire thing.

This is the 82ft no trap 80 through 10 dipole. Also includes 12, 17 and
30.

Any advice from the group? I see the coils are using a much thinner
wire, new ones look nice and copper, this one is very green.

What size wire can those coils be? Can I just continue the copper length
for the 80m leg and instead of separate copper winding just use the same
copper and wind it around that winding core?

With the coil is the critical factor its length or number of coils?

Any advice from the group is greatly appreciated

73s









82' No Trap 80 thru 10 Dipole.And it is great ALL bands. This includes
12, 17, and 30.


There are a lot of variables here. Most of which I do not understand. I
have enough experience to know that the number of turns in the coils is
most important and the diameter of the coil is important. If you use the
larger wire for the coils it will likely take a large coil form. You can
certainly use the same wire for the whole antenna. I am just thinking that
if they used thinner wire for the coils, you will not be able to get
enough turns on the form to get the same inductance.

If I were in your place, I would use some insulated stranded #14 house
wire for the whole thing. I would also buy some pvc pipe to allow the same
number of coil turns (and same diameter). If it worked fine before you
started this project, copying it wire length for wire length and turn for
turn would be my plan.

Michael

Throw it away.

Make a dipole for the longest frequency you desire to operate on.

Formula is 33 / 66

Make the one leg 33% of the length of the frequency and make the other side so that when combined to the first leg equals 66% of the total length for the dipole.

A true Dipole is a half wavelength at the center cut frequency.

I use the term dipole loosely - because it is a non terminated antenna that has two sides...

It will then be resonant somewhere on all frequencies above the center cut frequency as long as the Q of the coil is high.
Don't use a low Q coil balun...

Throw it away.

Make a dipole for the longest frequency you desire to operate on.

Formula is 33 / 66

Make the one leg 33% of the length of the frequency and make the other side so that when combined to the first leg equals 66% of the total length for the dipole.

I use the term dipole antenna loosly - because a true dipole antenna is only one half of the wavelength at the resonant frequency...

It will then be resonant somewhere on all frequencies above the center cut frequency as long as the Q of the coil is high.
Don't use a low Q coil balun...

Thanks Channel Jumper,
but not sure which frequency I would most operate on. So with the tuner I
have I want suitable access to as many as possible. I think rebuilding the
DX CC is ok for what I want to achieve.

Do you know what is the critical points regarding those coils? I found out
the copper wire coil I have is 12ga and solid, 300meters of it, it has a
nylon jacket with a plastic layer around that. Regular industrial stuff.
So regarding those coils, could I simply replace that thinner transformer
wire with windings of the same 12ga solid in jacket that will comprise of
the rest of the dipole? Is it length of that coil's copper (badly oxidized)
that is critical or is it coil turns? The present diameter of those coils is
much smaller than the 12ga, so should I make new coils with that thinner
transformer wire and make two solder connections there or can I simply weave
the 12ga in its place? What would you recommend in this situation because I
want to rebuild this good dipole with new copper.

Thanks

73s




"Channel Jumper" wrote in message
...

Throw it away.

Make a dipole for the longest frequency you desire to operate on.

Formula is 33 / 66

Make the one leg 33% of the length of the frequency and make the other
side so that when combined to the first leg equals 66% of the total
length for the dipole.

A true Dipole is a half wavelength at the center cut frequency.

I use the term dipole loosely - because it is a non terminated antenna
that has two sides...

It will then be resonant somewhere on all frequencies above the center
cut frequency as long as the Q of the coil is high.
Don't use a low Q coil balun...




--
Channel Jumper

I'm not sure if this will be helpful or wanted.

But your dipole antenna needs to be resonant - 1/2 wavelength on the lowest frequency you desire to operate on.
Because most amateur radio frequencies are multiples of other frequencies - 10 / 20 / 60 / 80 / 160
Some wavelengths will work with one antenna - as long as you do not try to tune up on a non resonant frequency.

This is the problem with the G5RV
The ladder line is the matching network and it only works on 20 meters.
When you try to tune it up on 10 or 40 - it tries to damage the tuner - arcing and heating.

At the same time, some will not be feasable - even with the tuner - such as 12 / 15 / 17 / 30 / 60

It does no good to transmit if you cannot hear.

[quote='Tom[_8_];797940']Thanks Channel Jumper,
but not sure which frequency I would most operate on. So with the tuner I
have I want suitable access to as many as possible. I think rebuilding the
DX CC is ok for what I want to achieve.



Thanks

73s

On Sunday, October 28, 2012 6:18:58 PM UTC-5, Channel Jumper wrote:
But your dipole antenna needs to be resonant - 1/2 wavelength on the
lowest frequency you desire to operate on.

Like the G5RV that you dislike, if one removed the feedline from a 1/2WL resonant center-fed dipole, it is no longer resonant. Resonance implies a low resistive feedpoint impedance. The G5RV antenna system has a low resistive impedance looking into the series matching section on 75m, 40m, and 20m (also on 12m).

3/2WL dipole + 1/2WL feedline = resonance on 20m

3/4WL dipole + 1/4WL feedline = resonance on 40m

3/8WL dipole + 1/8WL feedline = resonance on 75m.

The (G5RV) ladder line is the matching network and it only works on 20 meters.

Here's technical proof that it also works on 75m and 40m.

http://www.w5dxp.com/G5RV.HTM

The Smith Chart SWR arc indicates how series section transformers really work. The G5RV is a reasonably good antenna on 75m, 40m, 20m, and 12m. Not so good on 15m and not good at all on 30m, 17m, and 10m. A ZS6BKW is a better choice to obtain 17m and 10m but one loses 75m.

The G5RV antenna system is what it is. It is neither a gift from Heaven nor a design straight from Hell.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

I made the G5RV and I am receiving a lot of RF in the shack. I also have
installed infloor heating in many parts of the house and while trying to
tune, I trip the GFI thermostats, I believe that is coming from the G5RV.
Channel Jumper mentioned that before that it was a dirty transmitting
antenna. Now I am learning and installing ferrite rods (wrapping feeds from
my power supply aound the 3/8" x 6" Ferrite Rods. I am going to wrap about 5
rotations and tape them up. Seems practically all I can do. Which is better?
The ferrite bars to be wrapped around, at the ends of the feeds from power
supply or the RF chokes that simply clamp onto the cable, two halves coming
together? Any tips there are helpful.

Also, I landed an old Alpha Delta DX CC, now this was in the air for about
16 years and is very green. I want to rewire this antenna in hopes it
performs best. My question is about those coils. Do I have to find the
transformer wire which is smaller guage than the 12 ga wire I have to wind
those coils? Or can I simply replace those green tranformer wire coils with
the 12ga copper wire that I am using to replace all the legs of this fan
dipole? I am just basically duplicating the dipole's engineering, but not
the coils. I am wondering about those coils, do they need to have that
shalac tranformer smaller guage wire with two soldered connections or can it
be wound by the 12 ga copper wire and not have those two soldered
connections. One wire for the entier leg and have it wound around that coil
core.

What is the critical point here? The length of the wire or number of wraps
on the 1-1/4" tubing they used? Or are they the same anyway? Would 50 coils
of 12ga be the same length as what looks like 22ga? Same distance?

Thanks for the great discussions

73s






"W5DXP" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, October 28, 2012 6:18:58 PM UTC-5, Channel Jumper wrote:
But your dipole antenna needs to be resonant - 1/2 wavelength on the
lowest frequency you desire to operate on.

Like the G5RV that you dislike, if one removed the feedline from a 1/2WL
resonant center-fed dipole, it is no longer resonant. Resonance implies a
low resistive feedpoint impedance. The G5RV antenna system has a low
resistive impedance looking into the series matching section on 75m, 40m,
and 20m (also on 12m).

3/2WL dipole + 1/2WL feedline = resonance on 20m

3/4WL dipole + 1/4WL feedline = resonance on 40m

3/8WL dipole + 1/8WL feedline = resonance on 75m.

The (G5RV) ladder line is the matching network and it only works on 20
meters.

Here's technical proof that it also works on 75m and 40m.

http://www.w5dxp.com/G5RV.HTM

The Smith Chart SWR arc indicates how series section transformers really
work. The G5RV is a reasonably good antenna on 75m, 40m, 20m, and 12m. Not
so good on 15m and not good at all on 30m, 17m, and 10m. A ZS6BKW is a
better choice to obtain 17m and 10m but one loses 75m.

The G5RV antenna system is what it is. It is neither a gift from Heaven nor
a design straight from Hell.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

On Monday, October 29, 2012 10:44:24 AM UTC-5, Tom wrote:
I made the G5RV and I am receiving a lot of RF in the shack.

Do you have a husky 1:1 choke balun at the twinlead/coax junction? Are you limiting your operation to 80m, 40m, 20m, and 12m? Is your G5RV high enough and far away enough from the shack to avoid radiated RF overload? Is your G5RV twinlead at least a few inches away from anything conductive? Is your G5RV dipole section horizontal?

If you answered "no" to any of those questions, we might have a clue as to what is the problem.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com