On 4/30/2013 12:08 PM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:

It is now perfectly well known that a condenser, if large enough, does not

prevent the passage of high frequency oscillations, and therefore in these
cases

the earth is for all practical purposes connected to the antennae."

Was Marconi an idiot?

S*



If you pick the text you posted here yes, he was an idiot by your
definition. He wasn't really an idiot, unlike you.

Because the earth is NOT "in these cases the earth is for all practical
purposes connected to the antennae" for well over 99% of all the
antennas in use today. Because it doesn't need to be.

tom
K0TAR

tom wrote:
On 4/30/2013 3:17 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
"tom" napisal w wiadomosci
. ..
On 4/29/2013 10:20 PM, tom wrote:
On 4/29/2013 3:50 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
"Wayne" napisal w wiadomosci
Assuming the monopole is 1/4 wave long, and has a 1/4 wave long radial.
The radial is in line with the monopole. Everything is ungrounded.

The radial connected with the shield of the coax is the ground.

So what would happen if I connected my transmitter, which has a 50 ohm
{ostensibly) output with the hot lead of the coax connected to the
"radial" instead of the "monopole" and similarly with the braid?

Think long about this.


Just to clearly understand where you are on how this really works.

I am not sure if I understand you.

If you have the mechanically symmetric dipole than one leg with the coax
braid works as the radiator and the second as the ground.
If you change the terminals than your radial will be the radiator.

Do not you have any possibility to check which leg is active?
S*



How does the "leg" know if it is connected to the braid versus the
center conductor?

tom
K0TAR

A better question is how does this idiot to come in out of the rain
or does he just stand there, looking at the sky with with his mouth open,
until someone notices the gurgling sounds and takes him inside?





--
Jim Pennino

napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
Rob wrote:
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
It is now perfectly well known that a condenser, if large enough, does
not

prevent the passage of high frequency oscillations, and therefore in
these
cases

the earth is for all practical purposes connected to the antennae."

It is also well known that a conductor, when long enough, presents
itself as an inductor and does not allow passage of high frequency
oscillations.

Is Szczepan an idiot?

Yes, Szczepan is a babbling idiot.

And what about you? Ralph wrote:
"I think the ones answering him are..."
S*

napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:


You know only the EM waves. They "were made" by Heaviside in 1884, years
before Marconi and Tesla.

Babble.

Take a glance on the Marconi Nobel lecture from 1909.
http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_priz...ni-lecture.pdf
There (in references) no EM waves. No Heaviside. No Maxwell

More babble.

Marconi wrote: "In my opinion many facts connected with the transmission
of
electric
waves over great distances still await a satisfactory explanation".

Over 100 years old; EM radiation is now well understood by just about
everyone but you.

EM by Maxwell and Heaviside are much older.

Electric waves are radiated. EM is an induction.
S*

"Wayne" napisal w wiadomosci
...


"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
.. .



So with direct coax connection, one leg radiates and the other leg is
ground?

# Yes.

Would you be willing to touch the end of the "ground"/"radial" wire while
transmitting?

# The electron density changes periodically in the both legs (while
# transmitting).
# Are the voltages equal in the both legs?

But the question was: if the half of the antenna connected to the coax is
ground, would you be willing to touch the end of that half while RF power
is supplied to the center conductor connected half of the antenna?

That would be a good way of verifying your theory.

It is not my theory. Somebody wrote:
"H. Horizontal, unbalanced antennas, such as a long wire or random wire,
need an RF Ground wire that should be 10-15% longer than the antenna wire
itself. This is often called a counterpoise. The RF ground wire in this case
can be laid out in many ways, just so long as it does not cross over itself
to form a loop. Indoors, such wires are often run under carpets or along
walls, out of windows, or anywhere else convenient. This wire will often
have large RF voltages on it, so it should be kept away from people or
insulated to prevent contact." From:
http://www.sgcworld.com/radialstechnote.html

Your "dipoles" are "horizontal, unbalanced antennas". The radial or
counterpoise "should be kept away from people or insulated to prevent
contact."
The "mechanically symmetric dipole" is the simplest solution.
Do you agree?
S*

"tom" napisal w wiadomosci
...
On 4/30/2013 12:08 PM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:

It is now perfectly well known that a condenser, if large enough, does
not

prevent the passage of high frequency oscillations, and therefore in
these
cases

the earth is for all practical purposes connected to the antennae."

Was Marconi an idiot?

S*



If you pick the text you posted here yes, he was an idiot by your
definition. He wasn't really an idiot, unlike you.

Because the earth is NOT "in these cases the earth is for all practical
purposes connected to the antennae" for well over 99% of all the antennas
in use today. Because it doesn't need to be.

You simply do not know that:
"In electronic circuit theory, a "ground" is usually idealized as an
infinite source or sink for charge, which can absorb an unlimited amount of
current without changing its potential." and,

"The use of the term ground (or earth) is so common in electrical and
electronics applications that circuits in portable electronic devices such
as cell phones and media players as well as circuits in vehicles may be
spoken of as having a "ground" connection without any actual connection to
the Earth. This is usually a large conductor attached to one side of the
power supply (such as the "ground plane" on a printed circuit board) which
serves as the common return path for current from many different components
in the circuit." From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_(electricity)

The same was wrote by Marconi.
S*

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

And what about you? Ralph wrote:
"I think the ones answering him are..."
S*

So you are proud of the fact that someone thinks answering your babbling
nonsense is a waste of time?



--
Jim Pennino

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

napisa? w wiadomo?ci
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:


You know only the EM waves. They "were made" by Heaviside in 1884, years
before Marconi and Tesla.

Babble.

Take a glance on the Marconi Nobel lecture from 1909.
http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_priz...ni-lecture.pdf
There (in references) no EM waves. No Heaviside. No Maxwell

More babble.

Marconi wrote: "In my opinion many facts connected with the transmission
of
electric
waves over great distances still await a satisfactory explanation".

Over 100 years old; EM radiation is now well understood by just about
everyone but you.

EM by Maxwell and Heaviside are much older.

One more time; EM radiation is now well understood by just about
everyone but you.

The majority of EM radiation theory was formulated after 1909.

Continuing to quote Maxwell, Heaviside, and Marconi just shows how
obsolete your "knowledge" is.



--
Jim Pennino

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"tom" napisal w wiadomosci
...
On 4/30/2013 12:08 PM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:

It is now perfectly well known that a condenser, if large enough, does
not

prevent the passage of high frequency oscillations, and therefore in
these
cases

the earth is for all practical purposes connected to the antennae."

Was Marconi an idiot?

S*



If you pick the text you posted here yes, he was an idiot by your
definition. He wasn't really an idiot, unlike you.

Because the earth is NOT "in these cases the earth is for all practical
purposes connected to the antennae" for well over 99% of all the antennas
in use today. Because it doesn't need to be.

You simply do not know that:
"In electronic circuit theory, a "ground" is usually idealized as an
infinite source or sink for charge, which can absorb an unlimited amount of
current without changing its potential." and,

Irrelevant.

"The use of the term ground (or earth) is so common in electrical and
electronics applications that circuits in portable electronic devices such
as cell phones and media players as well as circuits in vehicles may be
spoken of as having a "ground" connection without any actual connection to
the Earth. This is usually a large conductor attached to one side of the
power supply (such as the "ground plane" on a printed circuit board) which
serves as the common return path for current from many different components
in the circuit." From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_(electricity)

Irrelevant.

The same was wrote by Marconi.

Marconi was proven wrong.

Where is the ground on a WWII era radiosonde?

No chassis, no "ground plane", no ciruit board, only point-to-point
wiring on a non-conductive mounting board and an antenna that is a
piece of wire connected to the plate circuit.


--
Jim Pennino

On 5/1/2013 3:47 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
"tom" napisal w wiadomosci
...


If you pick the text you posted here yes, he was an idiot by your
definition. He wasn't really an idiot, unlike you.

Because the earth is NOT "in these cases the earth is for all practical
purposes connected to the antennae" for well over 99% of all the antennas
in use today. Because it doesn't need to be.

You simply do not know that:
"In electronic circuit theory, a "ground" is usually idealized as an
infinite source or sink for charge, which can absorb an unlimited amount of
current without changing its potential." and,

But the "ground" you are referring to in this paragraph is NOT the one
you are in the next. One is an essentially infinite sink, and the other
ignores that property entirely.

So you are arguing with yourself here.


"The use of the term ground (or earth) is so common in electrical and
electronics applications that circuits in portable electronic devices such
as cell phones and media players as well as circuits in vehicles may be
spoken of as having a "ground" connection without any actual connection to
the Earth. This is usually a large conductor attached to one side of the
power supply (such as the "ground plane" on a printed circuit board) which
serves as the common return path for current from many different components
in the circuit." From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_(electricity)

The same was wrote by Marconi.
S*



tom
K0TAR