"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
...


"Wayne" napisal w wiadomosci
...


"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
.. .



So with direct coax connection, one leg radiates and the other leg is
ground?

# Yes.

Would you be willing to touch the end of the "ground"/"radial" wire while
transmitting?

# The electron density changes periodically in the both legs (while
# transmitting).
# Are the voltages equal in the both legs?

But the question was: if the half of the antenna connected to the coax is
ground, would you be willing to touch the end of that half while RF power
is supplied to the center conductor connected half of the antenna?

That would be a good way of verifying your theory.

# It is not my theory. Somebody wrote:
# "H. Horizontal, unbalanced antennas, such as a long wire or random wire,
# need an RF Ground wire that should be 10-15% longer than the antenna wire
# itself. This is often called a counterpoise. The RF ground wire in this
case
# can be laid out in many ways, just so long as it does not cross over
itself
# to form a loop. Indoors, such wires are often run under carpets or along
# walls, out of windows, or anywhere else convenient. This wire will often
# have large RF voltages on it, so it should be kept away from people or
# insulated to prevent contact." From:
# http://www.sgcworld.com/radialstechnote.html

# Your "dipoles" are "horizontal, unbalanced antennas". The radial or
# counterpoise "should be kept away from people or insulated to prevent
# contact."

It appears that your reference above from SGC contradicts your single radial
assertion.

For a half wave antenna broken in the center, you claim that the half
connected to the coax braid is a radial.
If it is a radial, why does it have high voltage at the end, behaving like a
dipole?

I wonder if I have gone nuts going through this thread!

73,

Nandu.

"tom" napisal w wiadomosci
. ..
On 5/1/2013 3:47 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:

You simply do not know that:
"In electronic circuit theory, a "ground" is usually idealized as an
infinite source or sink for charge, which can absorb an unlimited amount
of
current without changing its potential." and,

But the "ground" you are referring to in this paragraph is NOT the one you
are in the next. One is an essentially infinite sink, and the other
ignores that property entirely.

So you are arguing with yourself here.

The both paragraph are wrote by the same Author.


"The use of the term ground (or earth) is so common in electrical and
electronics applications that circuits in portable electronic devices
such
as cell phones and media players as well as circuits in vehicles may be
spoken of as having a "ground" connection without any actual connection
to
the Earth. This is usually a large conductor attached to one side of the
power supply (such as the "ground plane" on a printed circuit board)
which
serves as the common return path for current from many different
components
in the circuit." From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_(electricity)

The "large conductor, "ground plane" or "radials" are in the air or in the
space.
The air or the space are the "infinite source or sink for charge".

I assume that you know that a conductor gain/loss the charge in the
air/space.
But the conductor must be large enough.
In your "dipole" one radial is enugh but in a big station must be much more.

The same was wrote by Marconi.
S*

"Wayne" napisal w wiadomosci
...


# It is not my theory. Somebody wrote:
# "H. Horizontal, unbalanced antennas, such as a long wire or random wire,
# need an RF Ground wire that should be 10-15% longer than the antenna
wire
# itself. This is often called a counterpoise. The RF ground wire in this
case
# can be laid out in many ways, just so long as it does not cross over
itself
# to form a loop. Indoors, such wires are often run under carpets or along
# walls, out of windows, or anywhere else convenient. This wire will often
# have large RF voltages on it, so it should be kept away from people or
# insulated to prevent contact." From:
# http://www.sgcworld.com/radialstechnote.html

# Your "dipoles" are "horizontal, unbalanced antennas". The radial or
# counterpoise "should be kept away from people or insulated to prevent
# contact."

It appears that your reference above from SGC contradicts your single
radial assertion.

For a half wave antenna broken in the center, you claim that the half
connected to the coax braid is a radial.
If it is a radial, why does it have high voltage at the end, behaving like
a dipole?

""Marconi, who discovered if he attached one terminal of his transmitter to
a
wire suspended in the air and the other to the Earth, he could transmit for
longer distances".

Each transmittel as a source of AC produces the high voltage at the both
ends.
If the one end is in the soil you have the monopooe antenna.

But next Marconi discovered that the radials are better than the soil.

You should understand that 120 radials have lower voltage than one radiator.
Also one radial from your "dipole" connetced in series with the shield has
lower voltage.

Have you posibility to measure the VSWR on the both legs your "dipole"?
S*

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"tom" napisal w wiadomosci
. ..
On 5/1/2013 3:47 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:

You simply do not know that:
"In electronic circuit theory, a "ground" is usually idealized as an
infinite source or sink for charge, which can absorb an unlimited amount
of
current without changing its potential." and,

But the "ground" you are referring to in this paragraph is NOT the one you
are in the next. One is an essentially infinite sink, and the other
ignores that property entirely.

So you are arguing with yourself here.

The both paragraph are wrote by the same Author.

Irrelevant.

You are incapable of understanding that the word "ground" can refer to
several different things.

"The use of the term ground (or earth) is so common in electrical and
electronics applications that circuits in portable electronic devices
such
as cell phones and media players as well as circuits in vehicles may be
spoken of as having a "ground" connection without any actual connection
to
the Earth. This is usually a large conductor attached to one side of the
power supply (such as the "ground plane" on a printed circuit board)
which
serves as the common return path for current from many different
components
in the circuit." From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_(electricity)

The "large conductor, "ground plane" or "radials" are in the air or in the
space.
The air or the space are the "infinite source or sink for charge".

Nope, they are not.

You are incapable of understanding that the word "ground" can refer to
several different things.

I assume that you know that a conductor gain/loss the charge in the
air/space.
But the conductor must be large enough.
In your "dipole" one radial is enugh but in a big station must be much more.

Babbling gibberish

The same was wrote by Marconi.

It doesn't matter a lot what Marconi wrote as a lot of the things he wrote
were later discoved to be wrong or only apply in limited situations.


--
Jim Pennino

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"Wayne" napisal w wiadomosci
...


# It is not my theory. Somebody wrote:
# "H. Horizontal, unbalanced antennas, such as a long wire or random wire,
# need an RF Ground wire that should be 10-15% longer than the antenna
wire
# itself. This is often called a counterpoise. The RF ground wire in this
case
# can be laid out in many ways, just so long as it does not cross over
itself
# to form a loop. Indoors, such wires are often run under carpets or along
# walls, out of windows, or anywhere else convenient. This wire will often
# have large RF voltages on it, so it should be kept away from people or
# insulated to prevent contact." From:
# http://www.sgcworld.com/radialstechnote.html

# Your "dipoles" are "horizontal, unbalanced antennas". The radial or
# counterpoise "should be kept away from people or insulated to prevent
# contact."

It appears that your reference above from SGC contradicts your single
radial assertion.

For a half wave antenna broken in the center, you claim that the half
connected to the coax braid is a radial.
If it is a radial, why does it have high voltage at the end, behaving like
a dipole?

""Marconi, who discovered if he attached one terminal of his transmitter to
a
wire suspended in the air and the other to the Earth, he could transmit for
longer distances".

For certain types of antennas.

Most of the antennas that exist today did not exist in Marconi'e lifetime.

Each transmittel as a source of AC produces the high voltage at the both
ends.

Both ends of what?

If the one end is in the soil you have the monopooe antenna.

Maybe.

But next Marconi discovered that the radials are better than the soil.

Only under certain conditions.

You should understand that 120 radials have lower voltage than one radiator.

Babbling nonsense.

Also one radial from your "dipole" connetced in series with the shield has
lower voltage.

Babbling nonsense.

Have you posibility to measure the VSWR on the both legs your "dipole"?

This is an idiotic question that shows you haven't the slightest clue
how antennas work.



--
Jim Pennino

"vu2nan" wrote in message ...


I wonder if I have gone nuts going through this thread!

73,

Nandu.

LOL, but you must admit there is more traffic on the group than before this
thread

Wayne
W5GIE

In message ,
writes
Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"Wayne" napisal w wiadomosci
...


# It is not my theory. Somebody wrote:
# "H. Horizontal, unbalanced antennas, such as a long wire or random wire,
# need an RF Ground wire that should be 10-15% longer than the antenna
wire
# itself. This is often called a counterpoise. The RF ground wire in this
case
# can be laid out in many ways, just so long as it does not cross over
itself
# to form a loop. Indoors, such wires are often run under carpets or along
# walls, out of windows, or anywhere else convenient. This wire will often
# have large RF voltages on it, so it should be kept away from people or
# insulated to prevent contact." From:
# http://www.sgcworld.com/radialstechnote.html

# Your "dipoles" are "horizontal, unbalanced antennas". The radial or
# counterpoise "should be kept away from people or insulated to prevent
# contact."

It appears that your reference above from SGC contradicts your single
radial assertion.

For a half wave antenna broken in the center, you claim that the half
connected to the coax braid is a radial.
If it is a radial, why does it have high voltage at the end, behaving like
a dipole?

""Marconi, who discovered if he attached one terminal of his transmitter to
a
wire suspended in the air and the other to the Earth, he could transmit for
longer distances".

For certain types of antennas.

Most of the antennas that exist today did not exist in Marconi'e lifetime.

Each transmittel as a source of AC produces the high voltage at the both
ends.

Both ends of what?

If the one end is in the soil you have the monopooe antenna.

Maybe.

But next Marconi discovered that the radials are better than the soil.

Only under certain conditions.

You should understand that 120 radials have lower voltage than one radiator.

Babbling nonsense.

Also one radial from your "dipole" connetced in series with the shield has
lower voltage.

Babbling nonsense.

Have you posibility to measure the VSWR on the both legs your "dipole"?

This is an idiotic question that shows you haven't the slightest clue
how antennas work.

Actually, some of the amusing babbling nonsense does occasionally have a
small grain of sense. And even if it obviously IS nonsense, can we
always say precisely why it is?

If a dipole is fed directly with coax, is the power (voltage and
current) into each leg the same? If not, why not?

Again, if a dipole is fed directly with coax, and if you could insert an
SWR meter at the feed into each leg, would the two readings be the same.
If not, why not?
--
Ian

Ian Jackson wrote:

Actually, some of the amusing babbling nonsense does occasionally have a
small grain of sense. And even if it obviously IS nonsense, can we
always say precisely why it is?

There is usually some small bit of reality in the stuff this idiot posts,
but from that small bit he always makes giant leaps into the land of
nonsense.

Ye, we can say why his babbling is nonsense but few have the huge amount
of time or the inclination to do so.

If a dipole is fed directly with coax, is the power (voltage and
current) into each leg the same? If not, why not?

Again, if a dipole is fed directly with coax, and if you could insert an
SWR meter at the feed into each leg, would the two readings be the same.
If not, why not?

SWR into a leg has no meaning.

You may as well be asking how to remove the bones from ice cream.



--
Jim Pennino

On 5/4/2013 3:12 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
"tom" napisal w wiadomosci
. ..
On 5/1/2013 3:47 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:

You simply do not know that:
"In electronic circuit theory, a "ground" is usually idealized as an
infinite source or sink for charge, which can absorb an unlimited amount
of
current without changing its potential." and,

But the "ground" you are referring to in this paragraph is NOT the one you
are in the next. One is an essentially infinite sink, and the other
ignores that property entirely.

So you are arguing with yourself here.

The both paragraph are wrote by the same Author.

Yes, but they are not about the same thing. Which you obviously didn't
get, because you are using search engines to make your arguments instead
of a brain.

tom
K0TAR